Dr. Dave's and Bob Jewett's Video Encyclopedia of Pool Practice (VEPP)

JoeW said:
There are very few new things, if any, in the pool playing world. To research the literature, organize it, and then clarify this knowledge in an elegant outstanding format is in the highest traditions of our civilization. People spend their whole professional lives attempting to contribute to our knowledge, few succeed. A major contribution is exactly what this group, led by Dr Dave, has accomplished.

In the context of doing this it is expected that one respects the contributions of others by citing the references to prior work and by protecting others' individual expressions. This has been done by this group. Knowledge cannot be copyrighted. Its expression can be copyrighted. In our civilization knowledge is free and available to everyone.

Anyone can put their thoughts on paper or express it through other media. Very few have done so as masterfully as this group of authors. Their contribution will stand for years as a definitive contribution.
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Joe,

Thank you for your support, understanding, and insight. Your post is very well stated and appropriate, IMO.

Even if Bob and I had contributed nothing "unique" to the pool world, as some have suggested, our VEPP series would still be a valuable resource in terms of organization and presentation.

However, I personally think it is ridiculous for people to claim Bob and I have come up with nothing on our own, and have just "plagiarized" or "repackaged" stuff from others. I shouldn't need to defend Bob or myself, but if there are people out there that need some examples of things Bob and I have contributed to the pool world, here are a few to check out:

from Dave:
- 30-degree-rule and trisect-system the peace-sign techniques.
- huge collection of free online high-speed-video super-slow-motion video clips that many people have referred to for many years.
- comprehensive collection of answers and resources for frequently-asked-questions (FAQs) in all pool topics.
- more contributions listed here.

from Bob:
- large number of informative and creative instructional articles for Billiards Digest and On The Break News.
- progressive practice concept for effective and skill-appropriate drills.
- two-times-fuller and ten-times-fuller interference systems for aiming frozen-ball shots.
- numerous selfless contributions to many aspects of the pool world over countless years.

Regards,
Dave
 
Spider, do you realize that you just violated copyright law ! Not ethics, not opinions, but the law. I doubt that anything will be done about it but you do need to learn more about this topic.

From an argumentative point of view the direct quote is short and is intended for discussion but non-the-less you have just done what you accuse others of doing. Most people would at least put quotation marks around the exact material.

Why don't we just drop this whole line of discussion and appreciate the work for what it is.
 
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JoeW said:
Spider, do you realize that you just violated copyright law ! Not ethics, not opinions, but the law. I doubt that anything will be done about it but you do need to learn more about this topic.

From an argumentative point of view the direct quote is short and is intended for discussion but non-the-less you have just done what you accuse others of doing.
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HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA

Get real, Joe. For real...get real.
 
I think Spidey is safe under the fair use for educators clause.



JoeW said:
Spider, do you realize that you just violated copyright law ! Not ethics, not opinions, but the law. I doubt that anything will be done about it but you do need to learn more about this topic.

From an argumentative point of view the direct quote is short and is intended for discussion but non-the-less you have just done what you accuse others of doing.
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk.
 
"If you can't express yourself, you'll always be a slave."

oops....am I gonna get sued by Socrates' descendants?

I applaud Dr Dave, Bob Jewett, and Joe W here....

If you want something to be esoteric, form a secret society.
( feel free to quote this..:))
 
I guess I dont really understand why people give Dr Dave such a hard time.

He clearly has spent a ton of time and effort to compile a huge amounts of info into easily accessed formats, whether they be his website or the VEPS/VEPP series.

I think what people dont understand is that Dr. Dave an academic (college professor), a mechanical engineer, and a pool player. This means that he is dedicated to the acquisition of knowlege, is likely unable to stop himself from compiling that knowlege, and wants to make a buck off it. :grin-square:

Edit: said with all due respect. I've met Dr Dave and thought he was an entusiastic and nice guy.
 
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berko said:
I guess I dont really understand why people give Dr Dave such a hard time.

He clearly has spent a ton of time and effort to compile a huge amounts of info into easily accessed formats, whether they be his website or the VEPS/VEPP series.

I think what people dont understand is that he is an academic (college professor), a mechanical engineer, and a pool player. This means that he is dedicated to the acquisition of knowlege, is likely unable to stop himself from compiling that knowlege, and wants to make a buck off it. :grin-square:
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So being an academic, engineer and pool player (you're pushing it with that last one), that's OK for him to post other peoples' information/content/images/diagrams without permission? It's OK to thumb your nose at said authors when they respectfully ask him to remove their stuff?

If I was Dr. Dave, I'd remove that stuff and make those people happy. It wouldn't affect the quality of his site.
 
SpiderWebComm said:
From Dr. Dave's site:

permission to use Dr. Dave's resources

Can I link to or copy documents on your website?

Instructors, schools, and others are welcome to link to or use any of the material posted on my website, as long as the materials are not repackaged or used in any for-sale items (e.g., manuals, books, DVDs, etc.), and as long as the source is clearly cited (if not linked directly). I post all of the material on my website so people can use it and benefit from it, not to keep it private. However, I do ask that no part of my book, DVD, or CD-ROM be copied or used directly without my permission.
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Spidey,

First of all, you have taken that quote a little out of context. To be clear, it is from the Instructor and Student Resources section of my website, where I offer many documents and resources and encourage there use. In other words, instructors can use these materials directly as handouts for students, make copies, or link to them on their websites.

What I am not allowing is direct copying or inclusion of any printed or audio/visual content from my commercially published works. In other words, I don't want people violating Copyright Laws. People can use the "information" I provide in my published works however they want ... there is no law against this. What they can't do is use direct copies or excerpts from my books, DVDs, or CD-ROMs without my permission. This is federal law, so I think it is appropriate. Again, people are encouraged to use the documents and resources I provide on my website for free, and they can openly use, discuss, or publish any of the "information" contained in any of my works. They just can't make direct copies from my published books, DVDs, or CD-ROMs without my permission.

I hope that makes things more clear for you,
Dave
 
dr_dave said:
Spidey,

First of all, you have taken that quote a little out of context. To be clear, it is from the Instructor and Student Resources section of my website, where I offer many documents and resources and encourage there use. In other words, instructors can use these materials directly as handouts for students, make copies, or link to them on their websites.

What I am not allowing is direct copying or inclusion of any printed or audio/visual content from my commercially published works. In other words, I don't want people violating Copyright Laws. People can use the "information" I provide in my published works however they want ... there is no law against this. What they can't do is use direct copies or excerpts from my books, DVDs, or CD-ROMs without my permission. This is federal law, so I think it is appropriate. Again, people are encouraged to use the documents and resources I provide on my website for free, and they can openly use, discuss, or publish any of the "information" contained in any of my works. They just can't make direct copies from my published books, DVDs, or CD-ROMs without my permission.

I hope that makes things more clear for you,
Dave
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So you'd be OK if I diagrammed all of your practice shots (in VEPP) and posted them here? They're not copyrightable. I'm not copying the DVD, just posting the info.

That would save everyone a LOT of money. I think if people returned your favor, you'd be less likely to do it to them.
 
SpiderWebComm said:
So you'd be OK if I diagrammed all of your practice shots (in VEPP) and posted them here? They're not copyrightable. I'm not copying the DVD, just posting the info.

That would save everyone a LOT of money. I think if people returned your favor, you'd be less likely to do it to them.
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I think you are missing the point. I'd bet that all of the drills are readily available elsewhere. Its the compilation and packaging that is the value added component here.
 
SpiderWebComm said:
So being an academic, engineer and pool player (you're pushing it with that last one), that's OK for him to post other peoples' information/content/images/diagrams without permission?
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Spidey,

You've mentioned Rangy's SAM info. The only thing I have on my website about SAM is here:

The only sentence from me is: The Supplemental Aiming Method (SAM) (AKA "Stick Aiming Method") is a fractional-ball aiming method taught by many BCA instructors.

The description of SAM is a quote from the BD-CCB online forum. This information was publicly posted on the Internet, and I've quoted it so people can find it conveniently if they so desire.

You also mentioned Stan. I suspect this is the "big issue" for you, because you've brought this up over and over again. I do have a basic summary of Stan's version of CTE on my website, along with other versions that have been proposed and open discussed and demonstrated in the past.

The description and illustration was created by me and does summarize the basic information of Stan's approach, based on my understanding and interpretation. I also acknowledge the source and provide a link to Stan's DVD site. I think it is totally appropriate to summarize and discuss information offered in books and DVDs. That's how we learn from each other and expand and improve understanding and application of different concepts and approaches.

Regards,
Dave
 
berko said:
SpiderWebComm said:
So you'd be OK if I diagrammed all of your practice shots (in VEPP) and posted them here? They're not copyrightable. I'm not copying the DVD, just posting the info.

That would save everyone a LOT of money. I think if people returned your favor, you'd be less likely to do it to them.
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I think you are missing the point.
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Agreed.

berko said:
I'd bet that all of the drills are readily available elsewhere.
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We don't have diagrams for all of the drills available online yet. This is something I'd like to do. However, we do have many of them available already, along with templates and other resources used and referenced on the VEPP DVDs. All of it can be found on the VEPP Online Resource Page. I certainly don't think these resources in any way diminish the value of the DVDs.

berko said:
Its the compilation and packaging that is the value added component here.
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... plus the demonstrations, interactive audio/visual experience, and clear, concise, and organized explanations, illustrations, examples, and advice.

Regards,
Dave
 
Wow....

Folks with Dr. Dave's credentials are few and far between in the pool world. I, for one, am ecstatic that someone with his education level loves our game. You can count on your fingers the number of folks out there producing quality products like this. I have VEPS and will be getting a copy of this for Christmas. And, I will highly recommend it to everyone I know.

I am a Biologist by education (Master's level) and profession. To see these kinds of comments baffles me. Pick up any scientific literature out there and you will find dozens of other people's works cited in them. That IS the correct way to research a subject. The first thing that you do is read and digest all of the literature out there on the subject. Then you cover the high points at the beginning of your research paper. Good and bad. Have you ever seen anything like this in something that you are reading? ... The 30 degree rule states that for a rolling cue ball, the angle of deflection is near 30 degrees over a wide range of cut shots (Alciatore 2004). If you have, then you've seen references to other people's work. That is NO different than what Dave has done here. If you go back to those documents and into the Appendices, you will find a full reference to where that citation came from. Dave gives full credit to those folks who's material he uses on his site.

Dave helps all of the time with general questions about pool. He doesn't just come here to pedal his wares. He contributes a lot more than his detractors. I get so frustrated by folks on this site and in the pool world. Anyone who can help our game and cause is ridiculed. If something is garbage, by all means, point it out. If you think this is garbage, you don't know much about the game. For the people who keep sniping and flaming all the pros and instructors that come here to help, you should be ashamed of yourselves. It won't be long until nobody tries to help you anymore. Don't bite the hand that feeds you.

Dave, keep doing what you do. The good people here get it and appreciate your hard work.
 
Woof Biscuit said:
[...]
I am a Biologist by education (Master's level) and profession. To see these kinds of comments baffles me. Pick up any scientific literature out there and you will find dozens of other people's works cited in them. That IS the correct way to research a subject. The first thing that you do is read and digest all of the literature out there on the subject. Then you cover the high points at the beginning of your research paper. Good and bad. Have you ever seen anything like this in something that you are reading? ... The 30 degree rule states that for a rolling cue ball, the angle of deflection is near 30 degrees over a wide range of cut shots (Alciatore 2004). If you have, then you've seen references to other people's work. That is NO different than what Dave has done here. If you go back to those documents and into the Appendices, you will find a full reference to where that citation came from. Dave gives full credit to those folks who's material he uses on his site.
[...]
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Woof:

I don't think that's correct. What I think is in question about Dr. Dave's site, is this -- did he properly attribute the sources of all his information?

There have been some notable questions about this in the past, as this post (and others like it) seem to indicate:

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?p=2391695#post2391695

While I do think Dr. Dave's site is an invaluable resource, I think he needs to be extra careful and vigilant where he gets the information from. An information centralization site of this magnitude generates a lot of interest (read: a lot of eyeballs), and some of those eyeballs are bound to be authors of information themselves. "Recognizing" one's information without attribution to the original source will cause undesirable attention.

-Sean
 
Woof Biscuit said:
Folks with Dr. Dave's credentials are few and far between in the pool world. I, for one, am ecstatic that someone with his education level loves our game. You can count on your fingers the number of folks out there producing quality products like this. I have VEPS and will be getting a copy of this for Christmas. And, I will highly recommend it to everyone I know.

I am a Biologist by education (Master's level) and profession. To see these kinds of comments baffles me. Pick up any scientific literature out there and you will find dozens of other people's works cited in them. That IS the correct way to research a subject. The first thing that you do is read and digest all of the literature out there on the subject. Then you cover the high points at the beginning of your research paper. Good and bad. Have you ever seen anything like this in something that you are reading? ... The 30 degree rule states that for a rolling cue ball, the angle of deflection is near 30 degrees over a wide range of cut shots (Alciatore 2004). If you have, then you've seen references to other people's work. That is NO different than what Dave has done here. If you go back to those documents and into the Appendices, you will find a full reference to where that citation came from. Dave gives full credit to those folks who's material he uses on his site.

Dave helps all of the time with general questions about pool. He doesn't just come here to pedal his wares. He contributes a lot more than his detractors. I get so frustrated by folks on this site and in the pool world. Anyone who can help our game and cause is ridiculed. If something is garbage, by all means, point it out. If you think this is garbage, you don't know much about the game. For the people who keep sniping and flaming all the pros and instructors that come here to help, you should be ashamed of yourselves. It won't be long until nobody tries to help you anymore. Don't bite the hand that feeds you.

Dave, keep doing what you do. The good people here get it and appreciate your hard work.
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Thanks. I appreciate the positive posts that help balance out the negative ones.

Best regards,
Dave
 
dr_dave said:
I am excited to announce a new DVD series entitled: The Video Encyclopedia of Pool Practice (VEPP) ... drills for skills ... your guide to perfect pool practice.

VEPP covers the following areas:
Here's the detailed outline of the entire series, which includes a detailed list of all of the drills and challenges presented.

This was a joint effort between me and Bob Jewett. We did all of the filming last May, and I've been working very hard for many months to finish all of the editing, narration, illustration, documentation, and production. It feels really good to be done, and I am very happy to share the news with the AZB community.

The series is an organized and methodical training program and pool workout, featuring over 175 drills and challenges in 30 different categories. The Video Encyclopedia of Pool Shots (VEPS) series showed everything possible at the table, and VEPP shows how to develop the skills required to execute the VEPS shots with confidence.

Here are a collection of video excerpts from VEPP:
NV C.1 - "Vision center" alignment drill, from VEPP I
NV C.2 - Pre-shot routine recommendations, from VEPP I
NV C.3 - Progressive practice draw drills, from VEPP I
NV C.4 - Draw shot challenge drills, from VEPP I
NV C.5 - Wagon wheel cue ball control drill, from VEPP II
NV C.6 - Target practice for position control, from VEPP II
NV C.7 - Center-table postion-off-hanger drills, from VEPP II
NV C.8 - Line-of-balls position control drill, from VEPP II
NV C.9 - 9-ball pattern drills, from VEPP III
NV C.10 - 8-ball pattern drills, from VEPP III
NV C.11 - Angled-hide safety drill, from VEPP III
NV C.12 - Hide-behind-target safety drill, from VEPP III
NV C.13 - Shallow-angle one-rail kick drills, from VEPP IV
NV C.14 - Bank shot cut-angle-effects drills, from VEPP IV
NV C.15 - Bank-to-all-pockets challenge drill, from VEPP IV
NV C.16 - Jump shot drills, from VEPP IV
NV C.17 - Safety challenge game and drill, from VEPP V
NV C.18 - "Loop" carom game drill, from VEPP V
NV C.19 - Custom drills - rail cut shots with English, from VEPP V
NV C.20 - Custom drills - stun across the table with rail cut shots, from VEPP V​

We hope you enjoy the clips and find them useful, and we look forward to your comments and questions.

Best regards from Dave and Bob.
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To all you aspiring pool players out there: Dr. Dave and Bob Jewett have, through their hard work, expertise, and love of the game -- in a nice neat package (the only thing missing is the bow) -- provided you with an invaluable roadmap towards improving your game. I think that even more advanced players will find information of value and deserving of practice.

What I especially like about their "drills for skills" is the rock solid core information and the straight forward manner in which it is presented. No mumbo jumbo, just the facts, ma'am. Both these guys have been long-standing contributors to the pool community, here and elsewhere. I don’t think you could do any better if you’re looking for an affordable comprehensive path of instruction towards improving your game.

Well done, Gentlemen.

Lou Figueroa
 
lfigueroa said:
To all you aspiring pool players out there: Dr. Dave and Bob Jewett have, through their hard work, expertise, and love of the game -- in a nice neat package (the only thing missing is the bow) -- provided you with an invaluable roadmap towards improving your game. I think that even more advanced players will find information of value and deserving of practice.

What I especially like about their "drills for skills" is the rock solid core information and the straight forward manner in which it is presented. No mumbo jumbo, just the facts, ma'am. Both these guys have been long-standing contributors to the pool community, here and elsewhere. I don’t think you could do any better if you’re looking for an affordable comprehensive path of instruction towards improving your game.

Well done, Gentlemen.

Lou Figueroa
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Thanks Lou.

Are you trying to butter me up so you might get some DVDs instead of a lump of coal in that Christmas stocking? :eek: :grin:

Seriously, I appreciate your kind appraisal of our work.

Regards,
Dave
 
Looks good, Dr. Dave. I bought your first set and was not disappointed.

Looks like I have figured out what to get for Christmas.
 
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