Dragon Promotions virtual 14.1

Cameron Smith

is kind of hungry...
Silver Member
I'm not a lawyer but I do know that if a company does not protect its trademark then it can lose the right to do so. For instance, many years ago I had a product called LubeStar. After about a year we were contacted by Texaco saying that they are known as "The star of the American road" and our use of Star was an infringement (or whatever the legal term is). Instead of going to court they offered us $6000 to change the name. We did so pretty quickly. Our next products were IBN and Appel products, :)

The point is that if WPA ignores Charlie and the straight pool event actually becomes something huge then WPA might have lost the ability to profit from it because they didn't protect their sanctioning rights early on.
This is where I would be interested in getting a lawyer to weigh in on this. Can the WPA trademark the world championship for every pool game? Would they be deemed as separate trademarks? If I created my own pool game, would they then hold the trademark to that world championship as well?

If they are separate trademarks, I did find this on the web.

"You can lose a mark through abandonment. A mark will be considered abandoned if you stop using it for three consecutive years and you have no intent to resume its use."

I would think that the 14.1 title would qualify as abandoned at this time. But as I said, I would be interested in hearing a lawyer's perspective. Or maybe I'm just misunderstanding everything.
 

Danny Harriman

One of the best in 14.1
Silver Member
You know, I never said much of anything about the 626 and I never brought in any of the name calling you keep falling to. I don’t care about you asking for proof. I think the fact that Schmidt hasn’t presented his video is just a sign that he made a big accomplishment that was akin to a tree falling in the woods with nobody to hear it. He sat on it too long and now it’s a dead product. Go ahead. Keep clamoring for it. I have no issue with that.

My only contention is whether WPA should bother wasting its time policing Dragon Promotions holding a fake world championship when neither the WPA nor the 14.1 community is capable of holding a legitimate 14.1 world championship. It’s in that spirit I call 14.1 dead. It was just a little statement for color and you seem to have gotten so hung up on that one phrase that you lost sight of the actual discussion.
No I did not get lost in the discussion, as I stated before - I believe the fake news missing 626 video and wpa policing drgn promo/j.s. are related, the wpa has turned the cheek last few yrs in terms of charlie insisting his event be called 'world tournament'. Now that he and j.s. CLAIM to have surpasse Mosconi's 526 - but fail to show VERIFIABLE evidence - the wpa seems to Punish their little 14.1 world soiree. I would say the two are connected. yer statements of color calling 14.1 dead = just another bitter soul that wished he could run a century - but sadly just never had the talent to do so.
 
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MattPoland

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
No I did not get lost in the discussion, as I stated before - I believe the fake news missing 626 video and wpa policing drgn promo/j.s. are related, the wpa has turned the cheek last few yrs in terms of charlie insisting his event be called 'world tournament'. Now that he and j.s. CLAIM to have surpasse Mosconi's 526 - but fail to show VERIFIABLE evidence - the wpa seems to Punish their little 14.1 world soiree. I would say the two are connected. yer statements of color calling 14.1 dead = just another bitter soul that wished he could run a century - but sadly just never had the talent to do so.
See here’s the thing. Your whole connection of the 626 and WPA isn’t something I’ve seen before. And really doesn’t register on my radar at all. You said I was making my claims because of your stance on that. I’m just pointing out that I really don’t care what your stance on that is. It’s not even in my solar system. My comments about the WPA had nothing to do with you. I don’t know you. You are just a guy that that got upset because I don’t like the same music you do and you can’t let it go that I said most of the country doesn’t like that music either. You can agree or disagree. That’s okay. You keep resorting to name calling with me because what I said makes you feel threatened. If it helps. You don’t need to feel threatened. It’s okay that you feel differently than I do. We can move on from there.
 

Danny Harriman

One of the best in 14.1
Silver Member
See here’s the thing. Your whole connection of the 626 and WPA isn’t something I’ve seen before. And really doesn’t register on my radar at all. You said I was making my claims because of your stance on that. I’m just pointing out that I really don’t care what your stance on that is. It’s not even in my solar system. My comments about the WPA had nothing to do with you. I don’t know you. You are just a guy that that got upset because I don’t like the same music you do and you can’t let it go that I said most of the country doesn’t like that music either. You can agree or disagree. That’s okay. You keep resorting to name calling with me because what I said makes you feel threatened. If it helps. You don’t need to feel threatened. It’s okay that you feel differently than I do. We can move on from there.
It's good that yer in a different universe than me, u will receive very little condolences on this forum - when u say things like 'maybe Straight pool should die'. That is a Loser statement period, do u really thunk u will be received well - with a statement like that on a Pocket Billiard forum? I would say yer just another person who did not receive enough attention from parents while growing up, as yer bitter comments do suggest this being correct. If not a mask - at least employ some strong breath mint for all well being. Sea' here's the thing - maybe the minty flavor could refresh some of yer thoughts - try Orbit it's purty strong - if u get confused - just listen to the music. Like a lost lonely stream - u can move on.
 
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MattPoland

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It's good that yer in a different universe than me, u will receive very little condolences on this forum - when u say things like 'maybe Straight pool should die'. That is a Loser statement period, do u really thunk u will be received well - with a statement like that on a Pocket Billiard forum? I would say yer just another person who did not receive enough attention from parents while growing up, as yer bitter comments do suggest this being correct. If not a mask - at least employ some strong breath mint for all well being. Sea' here's the thing - maybe the minty flavor could refresh some of yer thoughts - try Orbit it's purty strong - if u get confused - just listen to the music. Like a lost lonely stream - u can move on.
You’re the only one clutching your pearls. If you read the thread, others have engaged in interesting dialog with me regarding the topic and I respect their views.
 

sparkle84

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Unfortunately, despite hundreds of pages on other threads that are specifically about the 626, for some reason it's not enough for Harriman. He's now invading threads that are about totally different subjects and spewing the same old garbage. It gets more and more ridiculous every day.
 

sjm

Sweating it at Derby City
Silver Member
No I did not get lost in the discussion, as I stated before - I believe the fake news missing 626 video and wpa policing drgn promo/j.s. are related, the wpa has turned the cheek last few yrs in terms of charlie insisting his event be called 'world tournament'. Now that he and j.s. CLAIM to have surpasse Mosconi's 526 - but fail to show VERIFIABLE evidence - the wpa seems to Punish their little 14.1 world soiree. I would say the two are connected. yer statements of color calling 14.1 dead = just another bitter soul that wished he could run a century - but sadly just never had the talent to do so.
It's possible that you are right, but the evidence for your claim just isn't there.

For starters, the BCA is part of the WPA, authorized to act in the name of WPA on matters pertaining to American pool. Hence, in reality, it was the WPA itself that verified the 626 ball run. Even if WPA feels that those who signed off on the run were lax, or even reckless, in their procedures, their beef is with one of their own members, namely the BCA.

It is further worth noting that the run was accepted by the billiards press, and that the run was acknowledged during a special presentation during the 2019 BCA Hall of Fame induction ceremony. If the WPA took issue with this, why didn't they take action or, at very least, express their displeasure?

I suspect the WPA could care less whether the record was broken or not, as record keeping has never had much of a place in pool. My guess is that the proposed "virtual format" of the Dragon event brought the world 14.1 championship claim to an even higher level of false advertising, and the WPA decided it'd had enough.

It's a shame, for both Dragon and the players, as Dragon has done so much for straight pool in America.
 

Danny Harriman

One of the best in 14.1
Silver Member
You’re the only one clutching your pearls. If you read the thread, others have engaged in interesting dialog with me regarding the topic and I respect their views.
Again - do u think u will be well received saying "maybe it's better that Straight Pool die" those are yer words - not mine, personally u sound very butt hurt about something.
 

Danny Harriman

One of the best in 14.1
Silver Member
Unfortunately, despite hundreds of pages on other threads that are specifically about the 626, for some reason it's not enough for Harriman. He's now invading threads that are about totally different subjects and spewing the same old garbage. It gets more and more ridiculous every day.
Another person who did not receive enough attention from mommy and daddy when young.
 

MattPoland

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Again - do u think u will be well received saying "maybe it's better that Straight Pool die" those are yer words - not mine, personally u sound very butt hurt about something.
By “well received” do you mean by you? Because I have been pretty much well received by everyone else that has chosen to converse. You’re the only one sounding butt hurt by virtue of the fact your all up in arms over a statement. Your ran in here guns blazing and you’re the only one doing it. Have you not noticed that?
 

Danny Harriman

One of the best in 14.1
Silver Member
By “well received” do you mean by you? Because I have been pretty much well received by everyone else that has chosen to converse. You’re the only one sounding butt hurt by virtue of the fact your all up in arms over a statement. Your ran in here guns blazing and you’re the only one doing it. Have you not noticed that?
This is incorrect, Dan White mentioned to u that u were a 'shallow fan' and highlighted some of yer more bitter contradictory statements in post #43 of this thread. Being well received is of course plural (imagine that):whistle:So u might want to look at that again, nice try at isolating or singling me out - but u failed. Your statements about 14.1 are obscure and misdirected, if u have a problem with the WPA then so be it, please do not mention AGAIN that maybe it is best that 14.1 die - that is a very immature and bitter thing to say.
 
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Danny Harriman

One of the best in 14.1
Silver Member
Unfortunately, despite hundreds of pages on other threads that are specifically about the 626, for some reason it's not enough for Harriman. He's now invading threads that are about totally different subjects and spewing the same old garbage. It gets more and more ridiculous every day.
This is incorrect, u have no proof that the WPA's decision to boycott top players players from competing in charlies 14.1 event - and my "Is j.s. and c.w. 626 legit' thread are not both related and or connected. So go 'spew yer garbage elsewhere'. Be careful - U too may end up losing yer mark through abandonment.
 
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sparkle84

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
They had/have a guy very similar to DH over in the Ask the instructors sub forum.
People would argue with him and it would go on and on until you wanted to throw
up all over your keyboard. It was a never ending stream of absurdity.
While he's still around his post count has dropped way, way off. One guy still
engages with him at times but everyone else has pretty much stopped. He throws a
little comment in here and there which everyone ignores and then usually isn't
heard from again on that thread.
I don't know as that would work with this guy. It seemed like it worked somewhat
with the other guy and they actually are quite close in their irrationality.
It's funny but I watched a video recently from the 2013 Southern Classic, guess who
the commentator was. Even way back then he was whining about how Charlie Williams
had screwed him out of a trophy or plaque or something.
 

Danny Harriman

One of the best in 14.1
Silver Member
They had/have a guy very similar to DH over in the Ask the instructors sub forum.
People would argue with him and it would go on and on until you wanted to throw
up all over your keyboard. It was a never ending stream of absurdity.
While he's still around his post count has dropped way, way off. One guy still
engages with him at times but everyone else has pretty much stopped. He throws a
little comment in here and there which everyone ignores and then usually isn't
heard from again on that thread.
I don't know as that would work with this guy. It seemed like it worked somewhat
with the other guy and they actually are quite close in their irrationality.
It's funny but I watched a video recently from the 2013 Southern Classic, guess who
the commentator was. Even way back then he was whining about how Charlie Williams
had screwed him out of a trophy or plaque or something.
Different guy - not me, I am way more mean that the cueing dude u reference on aim section - i promise. If u care to vomit gander in mirror, If u think the way polandmatt slings words around about 'maybe it's best that 14.1 die' - is a valiant statement - u too are an infectious disease to this forum. I asked him not to mention those words again and he has not - that should be enough for you.
 
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MattPoland

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This is incorrect, Dan White mentioned to u that u were a 'shallow fan' and highlighted some of yer more bitter contradictory statements in post #43 of this thread. Being well received is of course plural (imagine that):whistle:So u might want to look at that again, nice try at isolating or singling me out - but u failed. Your statements about 14.1 are obscure and misdirected, if u have a problem with the WPA then so be it, please do not mention AGAIN that maybe it is best that 14.1 die - that is a very immature and bitter thing to say.
I think if you read on you’ll notice a difference. Dan and I continued on after that with a short and productive exchange that never really devolved into the kind of tantrum you seem intent on extending. And that exchange with Dan also parleyed into a conversation other forum members partook in that was interesting and on topic. You really are the only one trying maintain a mud slinging match in this thread calling multiple people butt hurt like a one-trick drama pony. If you’re going to keep down this path of yeah-huh and nuh-uh interaction, I’m just going to start ignoring you.
 

Danny Harriman

One of the best in 14.1
Silver Member
I think if you read on you’ll notice a difference. Dan and I continued on after that with a short and productive exchange that never really devolved into the kind of tantrum you seem intent on extending. And that exchange with Dan also parleyed into a conversation other forum members partook in that was interesting and on topic. You really are the only one trying maintain a mud slinging match in this thread calling multiple people butt hurt like a one-trick drama pony. If you’re going to keep down this path of yeah-huh and nuh-uh interaction, I’m just going to start ignoring you.
Yer walking on thin ice and again Dan noticed yer verbal attack on the game I love, he even called u a shallow fan, yer shallow fer sure. If u have complex towards 14.1 cause u never made a player or what ever - yer issues are - keep it to yerself.
 

Danny Harriman

One of the best in 14.1
Silver Member
To be fair, my comments were intentionally provocative. Not in an internet troll way. More in discussing the state of the discipline in a way that may be at best a debatable position and at worst a tough pill to swallow laced with a reality check.

At the end of the day, I embrace the fact that others embrace 14.1. I can appreciate that there’s beauty in it. I sure get my teeth kicked in trying it out because I realize how much more I need to learn about controlled breakout shots, keeping my focus tight for long stretches, planning for a key ball and break ball, and just getting a good result in the break. Playing solo, I’m willing to play safe against myself and that’s an interesting side of the game not shown in high run videos.

So I don’t want to come off as a detractor. But it’s a harsh proposition to make. Maybe 14.1 is no longer worthy of WPA protection.
To be fair, my retort was intentionally provocative.
 

Straightpool_99

I see dead balls
Silver Member
I love straight pool, and I have been positive towards the Dragon promotion events in the past, because, like them or not, at least they are SOMETHING. WPA has done NOTHING for straight pool, what so ever. But I have kind of changed my stance on this recently. I really think WPA should no longer sanction straight pool events. Let it be its own thing and just abandon all support. These zombie events by Dragon do nothing but string it along as a sideshow, a joke to pass the time while the players are waiting for the next "real" event. The virtual event is doubly so.

It hurts me that people now consider 9 ball the sport. The luckiest, stupidest and lamest game in all of the pool universe, except maybe 7 ball. But that is the reality of it. Pools home is in Asia now, and apart for Japan, they don't care for straight pool at all. They want to see jump shots made with gaffe cues, wired wing balls and pattern racking, because that is fun for some reason I'll never understand. At least it's not call safe 10 ball, that's the only redeeming quality, apart from that it's a total shit show.

Straight pool would be better off with its own federation. At least then there could theoretically be a world championship. It wouldn't attract the big stars, but I don't particularly care, since those guys generally don't care about straight pool. If there isn't enough interest to hold such a championship, then maybe it doesn't need a championship. Maybe it could just be a game that is played and enjoyed.

The dream would be to go back to the roots of the game, the 10 foot table with reasonable but not too small pockets. Maybe even change up the equipment to be more like it was back then, less reactive balls maybe, different cloth, make it something completley unique, yet authentic. My suggestion would be 10 foot tables with snooker height which is slightly taller than modern pool tables, like in the old days. Maybe the rubber of the rails could be made to resemble the antique tables too. It could be a real gentlemans sport with a nostalgic feel. Proper old timey cues even, possibly. Naturally ivory and clay balls are out of the question, but the plastic could be made to emulate those materials and they could have that old time look too. I'd love to both watch and play that sport. If I ever become rich, I'd get one of those table/ball/cue sets made.

In the mean time I'll enjoy playing straight pool and playing the few events that I actually can, while I can, because I can see this sport going down the drain. The number of players keep dwindling every year, and the WPA will never hold a WC again, it seems. I'll give it 5 years in my country before the events are cut out all together. Maybe the Eurotour will keep it for 10, but I doubt it.
 
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Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think if you read on you’ll notice a difference. Dan and I continued on after that with a short and productive exchange that never really devolved into the kind of tantrum you seem intent on extending. And that exchange with Dan also parleyed into a conversation other forum members partook in that was interesting and on topic. You really are the only one trying maintain a mud slinging match in this thread calling multiple people butt hurt like a one-trick drama pony. If you’re going to keep down this path of yeah-huh and nuh-uh interaction, I’m just going to start ignoring you.
I thought that saying 14.1 should die was a very odd thing to say and it kind of pissed me off. Not really sure why. Maybe because it is the game I grew up with and I see all other games as lesser gimmicks. Then a proponent of such gimmicks suggests we get rid of the game that requires the most well rounded skill set of all (and that's pretty universally recognized). If you say you were just saying that to promote (provoke) conversation and you don't really believe that, then OK let's move on -- and I think we did.

The difference is that guys like DH have devoted their lives to the game (and have a financial stake as well) so if a guy like that gets overheated I can understand.
 

MattPoland

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I thought that saying 14.1 should die was a very odd thing to say and it kind of pissed me off. Not really sure why. Maybe because it is the game I grew up with and I see all other games as lesser gimmicks. Then a proponent of such gimmicks suggests we get rid of the game that requires the most well rounded skill set of all (and that's pretty universally recognized). If you say you were just saying that to promote (provoke) conversation and you don't really believe that, then OK let's move on -- and I think we did.

The difference is that guys like DH have devoted their lives to the game (and have a financial stake as well) so if a guy like that gets overheated I can understand.
Anyone know what turned 14.1 from the most prominent game played on a table with pockets to the niche it is today? And what made 8 ball take over as pretty much the only game casual pool players have ever tried (other than 3 ball)?
 
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