Drawing on the Rail?

K

kingwang

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hey guys, another question.

Today at the pool hall, I got my ass absolutely kicked by some Taiwanese pool prodigy that came out of nowhere. Seriously, I never saw this guy in my life before and with a house cue he started running out from everywhere.

Anyways, one of a few great shots he took was when the cueball was frozen to the head rail. The 4 ball is about 1 and a half feet away and I didn't think there was anyway he could make shape for the next ball. Well, lo and behold, he jacks wayyy up, shoots the 4 ball cross table and draws the cue ball back for shape. I really have only seen this shot once and that was by Larry Nevel. I tried this shot for the next hour and really couldn't get it to work with my entire cue (using only the shaft was easier).

Now my question is, is it worth learning this shot? And if it is, how do I practice it?
 
your time would be much better spent trying to learn to keep the cueball off the rail during practice. i can hardly think of a situation where i would do what this guy did rather than just cinch it, roll forward and take a thinner cut or play a safety or something.
 
I saw the DRAW MASTA!! himself shoot a similar shot at the Mosconi Cup matches a few years ago and the object ball wasnt a foot away it was almost the table length away and on the rail. Sickest draw back all the way to the other side of the table from where he shot it from.
 
It is awesome shot, but more awesome is never having to shoot it!

Nobody is born knowing how to do it, if you want it, you have to get it.
 
kingwang said:
Hey guys, another question.

Today at the pool hall, I got my ass absolutely kicked by some Taiwanese pool prodigy that came out of nowhere. Seriously, I never saw this guy in my life before and with a house cue he started running out from everywhere.

Anyways, one of a few great shots he took was when the cueball was frozen to the head rail. The 4 ball is about 1 and a half feet away and I didn't think there was anyway he could make shape for the next ball. Well, lo and behold, he jacks wayyy up, shoots the 4 ball cross table and draws the cue ball back for shape. I really have only seen this shot once and that was by Larry Nevel. I tried this shot for the next hour and really couldn't get it to work with my entire cue (using only the shaft was easier).

Now my question is, is it worth learning this shot? And if it is, how do I practice it?
Click to expand...

This isn't really a remarkable shot from only 1.5 feet.

pj
chgo
 
The more you elevate the harder the shot is, obviously. Drawing off the rail like that is probably one of the hardest if not the hardest shot you'll encounter, and its very, very low percentage. As said earlier, you're much better simply slow-rolling the shot and dealing with the next shot by either playing safe or trying the harder cut.
 
kingwang said:
Hey guys, another question.

Anyways, one of a few great shots he took was when the cueball was frozen to the head rail. The 4 ball is about 1 and a half feet away and I didn't think there was anyway he could make shape for the next ball. Well, lo and behold, he jacks wayyy up, shoots the 4 ball cross table and draws the cue ball back for shape. I really have only seen this shot once and that was by Larry Nevel. I tried this shot for the next hour and really couldn't get it to work with my entire cue (using only the shaft was easier).

Now my question is, is it worth learning this shot? And if it is, how do I practice it?
Click to expand...

Aim through the rail.
 
Any time you have to jack-up on a shot the make percentage goes way down as I'm sure you know. But as mentioned by another poster, this is not all that an amazing shot with a distance of 18" between OB an CB.

I don't know your playing level so if this is way to elementary, please excuse and disregard, but it may help some members visualize better how to perform this type of shot.

The easiest way to exemplify the shot is to picture cutting out a paper circle 2 1/4" in size, the same size as a cue ball.

Put the real cueball in the middle of the table and imagine where you would have to hit it to draw it.

Now if you held the paper circle up next to the cue ball so it stood right next to it and you marked a spot on the bottom with a pen in the same place as where you would hit the cue ball to draw, at 6 oclock you have the location to hit when playing on a horizontal plane.

Take the paper circle to the rail, lay it down flat now on the table with the mark nearest the rail, and look down on the paper circle rather than horizontally at it when you had it standing up. There is the spot to shoot when jacked up on a vertical plane to draw the CB.
 
Jack Montgomery said:
The more you elevate the harder the shot is, obviously. Drawing off the rail like that is probably one of the hardest if not the hardest shot you'll encounter, and its very, very low percentage. As said earlier, you're much better simply slow-rolling the shot and dealing with the next shot by either playing safe or trying the harder cut.
Click to expand...

There is a side to this shot that ought to be considered.

It's that if one pulls it off with authority, it can have a devastating psychological effect on your opponent. There are times when shooting a doozie can not only psych out your opponent, but win, too.

There's also the possibility that the only shot that will work in a particular situation is the draw shot being discussed. If that arrow's in your quiver, more power to you, if not, why not spend 30 minutes or so trying to learn the shot? If nothing else, you'll know whether or not it's an option for you.

Flex
 
Obviously the farther you need to draw the ball the harder it will be... Also if you are realativly close to the OB it is harder than it appears since the CB will likely hop a bit a contact and lose some of the draw.

A few things to keep in mind when shooting a jacked up draw shot.

  • The CB horizontal center axis angle is equal to your cue angle
  • A too long of follow through is a bad thing on this shot
  • The difficulty of pocketing the ball is increased by a factor of 10

The first two will help you get better draw results (if you chose to shoot the shot)....The third one will help you determin if you still really want to shoot that shot or look for an alternative solution. .....:wink: :)
 
kingwang said:
... Now my question is, is it worth learning this shot? And if it is, how do I practice it?
Click to expand...
I can't answer the first question for your game. In my own play, I find it to be a useful shot from time to time.

As for the second part, use progressive practice. Put the object ball on the center spot of the table, which is the spot (usually unmarked) between the side pockets. Put a coin 8 inches off the side rail by a side pocket and put the cue ball by the coin. (Place the cue ball so you have to bridge over the cushion, not the pocket, for the shot.) Your goal on each shot is to pocket the object ball in the side pocket and draw the cue ball back to the cushion you're bridging from. If you make the required shot, including drawing the cue ball back, move the coin a little closer to the cushion and try again. If you fail in the shot, move the coin a little farther from the rail for the next shot.

One of the things you will learn from this kind of practice is how close the cue ball can be to the rail for you to still have a chance to draw the cue ball back.

To make the shot harder, you can shoot towards a corner pocket and set up a longer shot.
 
drawing off of the rail

OK, I stumbled upon this technique, not claiming I invented it, but it works for me.

I used to try to shoot this shot like any other jacked up shot- my grip hand in the wrap area, slightly side armed due to elevation. My accuracy was horrible as the elevation was too much.

Now I choke up all the way to the balance point and ELIMINATE THE SIDEARM. I just shoot it like a normal (although extremely elevated) pool shot. The only problem that you'll encounter is that the cue stick will lift off of your bridge hand as there is no weight holding it in place. To solve this I use a CLOSED BRIDGE, and my bridge holds the cue on course.

Try it- closed bridge, grip hand on balance point. It is easy to draw from froze on the rail. Accuracy takes practice, and people are right to say that it should be avoided when possible. It is useful, however, especially when there are more shots from the rails and the margins of error are larger.
 
Tin Man said:
OK, I stumbled upon this technique, not claiming I invented it, but it works for me.

I used to try to shoot this shot like any other jacked up shot- my grip hand in the wrap area, slightly side armed due to elevation. My accuracy was horrible as the elevation was too much.

Now I choke up all the way to the balance point and ELIMINATE THE SIDEARM. I just shoot it like a normal (although extremely elevated) pool shot. The only problem that you'll encounter is that the cue stick will lift off of your bridge hand as there is no weight holding it in place. To solve this I use a CLOSED BRIDGE, and my bridge holds the cue on course.

Try it- closed bridge, grip hand on balance point. It is easy to draw from froze on the rail. Accuracy takes practice, and people are right to say that it should be avoided when possible. It is useful, however, especially when there are more shots from the rails and the margins of error are larger.
Click to expand...

I'm surprised this wasn't mentioned earlier; it's a good suggestion. Has anybody ever tried a dart stroke (with full cue) for this type of shot?

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
I'm surprised this wasn't mentioned earlier; it's a good suggestion. Has anybody ever tried a dart stroke (with full cue) for this type of shot?

pj
chgo
Click to expand...

I haven't, but someone told me that Larry Nevel shoots this shot one-handed and "spears" the cue ball, quite a bit stronger than a dart stroke, I suppose. Have you ever seen him shoot it?

Flex
 
Flex said:
I haven't, but someone told me that Larry Nevel shoots this shot one-handed and "spears" the cue ball, quite a bit stronger than a dart stroke, I suppose. Have you ever seen him shoot it?

Flex
Click to expand...

Larry hits near table-length draw shots from the end rail with both two-handed dart stroke and one-handed underhand stroke in the first three minutes of this video:

Larry's Stroke

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Larry hits near table-length draw shots from the end rail with both two-handed dart stroke and one-handed underhand stroke in the first three minutes of this video:

Larry's Stroke

pj
chgo
Click to expand...

Pat,

I had seen that video before, and it's an impressive showing of his skill. But I don't think I saw a dart stroke anytime in those first 3 minutes. Perhaps you're using the term dart stroke in a different way than I'm familiar with.
When I think of a dart stroke, it's the one that is sometimes used when jumping balls, where the motion is akin to throwing a dart, with a whippy wrist.

Maybe he does use a dart stroke in that video, and I just couldn't see it. It was pretty dark.

Flex
 
Patrick Johnson said:
I'm surprised this wasn't mentioned earlier; it's a good suggestion. Has anybody ever tried a dart stroke (with full cue) for this type of shot?

pj
chgo
Click to expand...
Sure. I find it is the easiest way to play the shot if the object ball is close by. It helps to have practiced masse with the dart grip.
 
Flex said:
Pat,

I had seen that video before, and it's an impressive showing of his skill. But I don't think I saw a dart stroke anytime in those first 3 minutes. Perhaps you're using the term dart stroke in a different way than I'm familiar with.
When I think of a dart stroke, it's the one that is sometimes used when jumping balls, where the motion is akin to throwing a dart, with a whippy wrist.

Maybe he does use a dart stroke in that video, and I just couldn't see it. It was pretty dark.

Flex
Click to expand...

You're right, he doesn't use a dart stroke - I saw the cue up by his chin in passing and couldn't tell where his arm was because of the shadows. I should have known by the speed he got on the CB that it wasn't a dart stroke.

pj
chgo
 
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