Drill to stop elbow drop
- Thread starter mantis99
- Start date
Six Shooter,
I hear you brother.
I just went through a 4 month slump where an incorporation of something new and different caused me to go 2-3 levels down.
My game deteriorated to the point that I no longer was able to fix it on my own. Just too many variables.
So the damage can be tremendous, the state of confusion can be overwhelming.
The blow to confidence is what takes the longest to recover.
That experiment is over and I have gone back to what used to work unfortunately that took 2 more months and it is still not completely set, there is some reverting.
I know people who gave up on the game because of things like that.
Odds are that when you made the stroke change you made more changes that you are unaware of.
In pool if you change one thing you are changing 2 or more other things so that’s like a domino.
If you have a friend or know someone who is a good observer he will be able to help you.
A friend of mine was able to explain to me why the balls were reacting the way they were and why nothing was working.
I would shoot he would tell me what I was doing the feedback was priceless.
What I thought I was doing I actually wasn't.
We made corrections to the stance, shooting plane, etc.
I wasn’t learning anything new just rediscovering what once was.
Within 20 minutes I run some racks again.
It was like night and day.
I hear you brother.
I just went through a 4 month slump where an incorporation of something new and different caused me to go 2-3 levels down.
My game deteriorated to the point that I no longer was able to fix it on my own. Just too many variables.
So the damage can be tremendous, the state of confusion can be overwhelming.
The blow to confidence is what takes the longest to recover.
That experiment is over and I have gone back to what used to work unfortunately that took 2 more months and it is still not completely set, there is some reverting.
I know people who gave up on the game because of things like that.
Odds are that when you made the stroke change you made more changes that you are unaware of.
In pool if you change one thing you are changing 2 or more other things so that’s like a domino.
If you have a friend or know someone who is a good observer he will be able to help you.
A friend of mine was able to explain to me why the balls were reacting the way they were and why nothing was working.
I would shoot he would tell me what I was doing the feedback was priceless.
What I thought I was doing I actually wasn't.
We made corrections to the stance, shooting plane, etc.
I wasn’t learning anything new just rediscovering what once was.
Within 20 minutes I run some racks again.
It was like night and day.
Whenever you do make a change in your game, I think it is wise to make just one change at a time and work on just that one change for at least 2 weeks. Too many changes can be problematic. Each change you make might be beneficial down the road but you need to perfect that change before you move onto another change.
Lee...See, here you are talking about power (tight grip and strength) vs finesse (pendulum, cue weight, and timing). In the end it is moot for two reasons...1) it's two inert objects; a piece of wood and a piece of plastic; and 2) the CB is gone 1/1000th of a second (a millisecond) after contact with the tip. Once the CB is gone from the tip, nothing you, I or anybody else can do, will have any influence on the outcome. Point made? The shot physically ends at contact with the CB, in terms of possible outcome. How the way we finish our stroke, or followthrough, affects what happens (with or without elbow drop) is minimized by this fact. So then it becomes a matter of what "feels better to me", or psychologically what I might "believe does more for me"! Personally, it makes a lot of sense to me to have a physical beginning and end to my stroke. That way I can learn control, and use it how it suits me best. That's what a pendulum stroke can give you. Lots of pros do use a piston stroke...lots more finesse the CB around the table, without one. The only real point I try to make, again and again, is that elbow drop is a choice rather than a necessity for the outcome.
The other real point...as has been made over and over...is to use what works best for you. As you mentioned, the pendulum stroke is easier to teach, and, imo, for the majority of players struggling with consistency or having reached an insurmountable plateau in their game (regardless of length of time playing), learning a pendulum stroke may well help them "break through" barriers, and achieve a greater degree of consistentcy. It is absolutely true that there is more than one way to get from point A to point B! Cheers!
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
The other real point...as has been made over and over...is to use what works best for you. As you mentioned, the pendulum stroke is easier to teach, and, imo, for the majority of players struggling with consistency or having reached an insurmountable plateau in their game (regardless of length of time playing), learning a pendulum stroke may well help them "break through" barriers, and achieve a greater degree of consistentcy. It is absolutely true that there is more than one way to get from point A to point B! Cheers!
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
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Grip seems to be a huge part of things. I did some video last night, and my elbow did not drop at all, yet I was still sending the CB airborne way too often with low draw shots. My chalk mark on the ball showed that the point of contact on the CB was correct. The only thing I can surmise is that my grip must be too hard, thus aggressively dropping the tip into the ball causing it to leap up.
I have never heard of a "V" grip before in pool. Any chance you'll describe it?
mantis99...Impossible! If you are launching the CB, the chalk mark (using a stripe placed on the horizontal axis) would be at (or below) the color separation. You aim there, but the chalk mark will actually be above the edge of the stripe a tiny bit (because of the two curved surfaces...CB & cuetip). You have to hit the table first, with the tip, to launch the CB off the table...unless you are jacking the cue so high that it would be a ridiculous angle to begin with (which I doubt you are). I don't think you're hitting it where you think you are. Use a stripe or a Rempe training ball to really see the impact point. Grip pressure plays a huge role in smooth draw, for certain.
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Scott,
I am using the Rempe ball, so I can see exactly where I am hitting it, and I really do not jack the cue up at all. This happens sometimes when I hit the Rempe ball a half tip above the "LOW" word on the ball, and sometimes even higher.
I can only guess that I my grip is strongly tightening right before the tip hits the ball, causing a quick downward glide of the tip into the CB, causing it to jump up.
mantis99...Perhaps...but I think there is another culprit. I'd have to SEE you to figure it out. Remember this...tension in your swing comes from two possible places...your bicep overflexing and involving the shoulder muscles; and the grip hand. It can be either one or both, that can cause problems such as you're seeing. Easy to figure out with a video camera, monitor, and slow motion playback...as long as you really know what you're looking for or at! 
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
mantis99...What I would be looking at is the side view, as opposed to where you're striking the CB (which can be seen from the side too). From the side, in slow motion, you can "see" where the tension is. Check your PM's.
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
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Move your bridge an inch or two closer to the cue ball with a relaxed grip.
Best,
Mike
I have done this, and it does diminish the tendency to have the problem, but my bridge becomes very short. I really need to work on getting my grip to relax more though. Whenever I gear up the stroke it really has a tendnecy to tighten up. I probably need to spend a bunch of time at the table shooting relaxed slow paced shots and slowly increasing the speed.
I never teach a tight grip to create strength, i teach my own grip technique called a "V" grip. If you look at what Darren Appleton wrote about me, after his grip change. I teach in my opinion the best grip technique their is, i can generate more cue power than anyone ( strong words but can back this up) and this is all down to the grip, but to create this control and power you need this grip.
hope you are doing well, and be good to see you again sir.
The Stig strikes me as a real elbow-dropper.
:grin:
other sources confirm that too
I'm not an instructor but I couldn't agree more with this post.
When your down on the shot, imagine you are holding a softball and want to pitch it to the OB underhanded. If you do it correctly you will notice that the tip of the cue (at end of stroke) is at the same distance above the table as it was when you hit the QB.
You'll have to practice this because you can put some insane draw on the QB. Learn to control it by practicing some draw shots a diamond at a time.
This does not require the dropping of the elbow during the shot, what happens with your elbow after you hit the QB doesn't matter. Just don't plan on dropping your elbow during the stroke. Your warm up strokes and shot stroke should be from the elbow down to the grip. Try to finish the stroke (by looking at where your grip hand finishes) at the same place on your body every time.
John
Are you implying that the follow through has nothing to do with the amount of spin put on the ball?
Follow through is everything in controlling the CB. This is some bad info above.
The only way I can curve the CB around a ball is by the proper use of follow through.
Even Phil Capelle states that the CB gets much of it action from follow through.
Great book, everyone should have it.....Play Your Best Pool.