Well, perhaps they looked at it as he was drunk; unlike Higgins, who by comparison was stone-cold sober.
drunken alex live in the finals
- Thread starter dmgwalsh
- Start date
Well, perhaps they looked at it as he was drunk; unlike Higgins, who by comparison was stone-cold sober.
PSA,
Hmmmm...I'm doubtful that any organized sport would survive with the attitude that on-the-field penalties are adequate to keep the sport healthy. Fines, suspensions, and bans have always been necessary to make an example of players exhibiting egregious behavior.
While the straight pool challenge is a year to year thing, and there is no guarantee there will even be any more; I can assure you that the organizers are absolutely dedicated to the betterment of 14.1; and Alex's "example" is the ABSOLUTE OPPOSITE of the sport they are trying to display. If I were involved as organizer or sponsor; I would never allow him to compete - his behavior sabotaged all the efforts of those who contributed so much money and effort.
Alex would NEVER be invited to Betmore's Basement....his loss....he behaved as a jerk.
Well, perhaps they looked at it as he was drunk; unlike Higgins, who by comparison was stone-cold sober.
Aahh the old boys club days
WBM,
In principle, I agree with you that additional penalties should be imposed if necessary. Having said that, how can pool be considered an organized sport if the tv producers are allowed to overule the referree and dictate what is permitted? The only other sport that I can think of where the rules are so loosely enforced would be the World Wrestling Federation.
In addition, if the referrees would have imposed penalties upon Alex's unsportsmanlike conduct in the earlier rounds, it's likely that Alex would have been forced to change his conduct and quite possibly would not have even made it to the finals. Alex got away with as much as the referrees let him get away with.
The bottom line is something is fundamentally wrong with a sport wherein the referree cannot even forfeit a player for being drunk. The blatant interference by the tv producers should not be allowed to occur. Until these basic reforms take place, pool has a long way to go until it cleans up its image.
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WBM,
In principle, I agree with you that additional penalties should be imposed if necessary. Having said that, how can pool be considered an organized sport if the tv producers are allowed to overule the referree and dictate what is permitted? The only other sport that I can think of where the rules are so loosely enforced would be the World Wrestling Federation.
In addition, if the referrees would have imposed penalties upon Alex's unsportsmanlike conduct in the earlier rounds, it's likely that Alex would have been forced to change his conduct and quite possibly would not have even made it to the finals. Alex got away with as much as the referrees let him get away with.
The bottom line is something is fundamentally wrong with a sport wherein the referree cannot even forfeit a player for being drunk. The blatant interference by the tv producers should not be allowed to occur. Until these basic reforms take place, pool has a long way to go until it cleans up its image.
If this is true about Pat Fleming not allowing Marop to call off the match due to Alex being drunk than in all honesty I have to question his motives for this as it seems as though DVD sales meant more to Pat at that moment in time than the integrity of the game he is trying to promote.
I think some questions have to be asked across the board on this one.
Whoooooaaaaaahhhhh!!!!
Before we start to send out a lynching party we should get the facts about Pat and Danny D. We all got to SEE what Alex did but only hear about Pats and Dannys suggestion SECOND HAND.
We dont know what they said or why so lets not talk about financial motives. Maybe they were talking about what the present audience wanted and had long waited for. If you were Appleton how would you feel if you were awarded 1st prize and trophy on a forfeit? I would not settle well with any pro.
I dont need to defend Pat. What he has done for pool out of the love for the game is phenomenal. If you think he is making millions out of his operation you got another thing coming. I know the years hes gone through wondering if he could go on and raise a family with so little profit. A man with his brains and skills could easily make a living doing someithing else for a big company. I remember him with a single camera taking down all the stats and perfecting his accu-stats to judge quality of pool play. Lugging his own equipment across country to film the Reno open and not knowing what sales would be like was a Herculean task.
Lay off Pat! He deserves our respect and giving him the benefit of the doubt.
As for Danny, he is a champion of champions. Great tournament, Money player, and sportsman. You want to judge him without the facts. That reflects on you, not him. I trust he has his reasons. He is not likely to let injustice go unpunished.
We can thank them for airing this episode. So we got to see for ourselves what happened and not just hearsay. Lets reserve our judgement till we can actually see ourselves the facts.
I personally have told staff at accustats it is one DVD i would not be purchasing.
Before we start to send out a lynching party we should get the facts about Pat and Danny D. We all got to SEE what Alex did but only hear about Pats and Dannys suggestion SECOND HAND.
We dont know what they said or why so lets not talk about financial motives. Maybe they were talking about what the present audience wanted and had long waited for. If you were Appleton how would you feel if you were awarded 1st prize and trophy on a forfeit? I would not settle well with any pro.
I dont need to defend Pat. What he has done for pool out of the love for the game is phenomenal. If you think he is making millions out of his operation you got another thing coming. I know the years hes gone through wondering if he could go on and raise a family with so little profit. A man with his brains and skills could easily make a living doing someithing else for a big company. I remember him with a single camera taking down all the stats and perfecting his accu-stats to judge quality of pool play. Lugging his own equipment across country to film the Reno open and not knowing what sales would be like was a Herculean task.
Lay off Pat! He deserves our respect and giving him the benefit of the doubt.
As for Danny, he is a champion of champions. Great tournament, Money player, and sportsman. You want to judge him without the facts. That reflects on you, not him. I trust he has his reasons. He is not likely to let injustice go unpunished.
We can thank them for airing this episode. So we got to see for ourselves what happened and not just hearsay. Lets reserve our judgement till we can actually see ourselves the facts.
I personally have told staff at accustats it is one DVD i would not be purchasing.
WBM,
In principle, I agree with you that additional penalties should be imposed if necessary. Having said that, how can pool be considered an organized sport if the tv producers are allowed to overule the referree and dictate what is permitted? The only other sport that I can think of where the rules are so loosely enforced would be the World Wrestling Federation.
In addition, if the referrees would have imposed penalties upon Alex's unsportsmanlike conduct in the earlier rounds, it's likely that Alex would have been forced to change his conduct and quite possibly would not have even made it to the finals. Alex got away with as much as the referrees let him get away with.
The bottom line is something is fundamentally wrong with a sport wherein the referree cannot even forfeit a player for being drunk. The blatant interference by the tv producers should not be allowed to occur. Until these basic reforms take place, pool has a long way to go until it cleans up its image.
So pool's image has more to do with Accu-Stats and Bill Marop, than with Alex being hammered?
What?! Get over yourself and your holier-than-thou remarks.
Danny and Mark themselves on the stream talked negatively about the incident. Danny remarked at the beginning of the stream that he thought it was going to be canceled because Alex was hammered.
Accu-Stats has probably been the longest standing contributor to pool. Pat and crew have documented some of the greatest players to ever put a cue together.
Isn't it a bit sad that there is not one match video of Willie Mosconi in his prime?
Thanks to Pat we get to see the mighty Efren from rise to retirement. We get to see Sigel run a flawless 150.
The answer isn't to make Accu-Stats clean up its policies. You need to seriously reconsider who does what in the pool world. You should be thanking Pat and crew for a life of thankless servitude to an at times ungrateful audience, for barely any money at all.
How on earth this falls on anyone other than Alex is beyond me.
I would like to personally thank Accu-Stats for tirelessly giving to pool. Your efforts and product do not go unnoticed. You have and continue to be a class act and I sincerely hope that you continue your service for many years to come.
Just to be clear I am not questioning either person's history Pat or Danny's especially considering I never brought Danny into this.
I am questioning one singular incident. Let me pose a question and if I'm playing devil's advocate than so be it.
Why do most people watch Nascar that aren't die hard Nascar fans, is it to watch Jeff Gordon make left turns all day? No it is for the break neck speed in which the drivers are hitting with their cars in the hopes of seeing one of those massive crashes. Now you could make the argument that that is morbid and yes you would be correct however people are by nature morbid and can not look away from a train wreck. This of course is drama and drama sells period.
As for Darren not settling well for being handed 20K on a forefeit I am sure he would get over it quick for not having to play his last match and getting paid to sit back and let it happen.
I just think that dvd sales on this one might have gotten the better of Pat on this one. And before anyone out there gets on the bandwagon of oh pat makes little to no money on this endeavour that is Accu-stats, yes I am very well aware of that. Just as I am aware that it would be nice to sell this dvd that I would imagine highlight Alex's hijinks for lack of a better term.
Just take a look at the controversy that it is stirring up in this forum alone. People divided on the issue and sitting on both sides of the fence. I know I would purchase the dvd just to see what actually went on.
Now that being said as it was stated earlier I would like to hear Pat's side of the story and for that matter Danny's just to get his take on the event.
In all honesty people who are streaming or filming an event for future sales should not have a say in the way the event is run unless it interferes with the physical streaming of the event. The decision that needed to be made in this situation should have been made by Marop and Ken Schuman, there are those who do not agree with the decision that was made but that was it.
I am questioning one singular incident. Let me pose a question and if I'm playing devil's advocate than so be it.
Why do most people watch Nascar that aren't die hard Nascar fans, is it to watch Jeff Gordon make left turns all day? No it is for the break neck speed in which the drivers are hitting with their cars in the hopes of seeing one of those massive crashes. Now you could make the argument that that is morbid and yes you would be correct however people are by nature morbid and can not look away from a train wreck. This of course is drama and drama sells period.
As for Darren not settling well for being handed 20K on a forefeit I am sure he would get over it quick for not having to play his last match and getting paid to sit back and let it happen.
I just think that dvd sales on this one might have gotten the better of Pat on this one. And before anyone out there gets on the bandwagon of oh pat makes little to no money on this endeavour that is Accu-stats, yes I am very well aware of that. Just as I am aware that it would be nice to sell this dvd that I would imagine highlight Alex's hijinks for lack of a better term.
Just take a look at the controversy that it is stirring up in this forum alone. People divided on the issue and sitting on both sides of the fence. I know I would purchase the dvd just to see what actually went on.
Now that being said as it was stated earlier I would like to hear Pat's side of the story and for that matter Danny's just to get his take on the event.
In all honesty people who are streaming or filming an event for future sales should not have a say in the way the event is run unless it interferes with the physical streaming of the event. The decision that needed to be made in this situation should have been made by Marop and Ken Schuman, there are those who do not agree with the decision that was made but that was it.
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Right. DVD sales.
Couldn't be the fact that it was the last day. And that to cancel would cut it short at the semi's.
Couldn't be the fact that "hey you show up drunk, you lose on your own accord."
It has to be DVD sales.
They were there to film. Not protect the pool world from "infringements of honor to 14.1."
Seriously guys, its Accu-Stats. Back it up with something other than conjecture.
So the come on its Accu Stats comment means what exactly? That they have no fault whatsoever? That Pat is somehow miraculously perfect?
In that case let me try,
1. Seriously guys, its Lehman Brothers. Come on back it up with something....
2. Seriously guys, its Enron, come on back it with ......
3. Seriously guys its Sascha, come on back it up with.......
I take it you are catching my point here.
I dont know what happened I wasnt there but after talking to Dennis today I know where why mind is made up and if you dont want to come to any conclusions or blame who you want to blame be my guest.
alex
Yes,I to watched all of the stream and i found alex`s behaviour appalling to say the least....Even while the 14 - 1 semi final was been played the noise alex was making was deafening infact i turned the volume down lol..But what annoyed me as well was when alex kept shouting at darren/neils to hurry up and get the match over with..Then at one point you saw alex at there table carryin on .at one point while darren was at the table .then when the camera stayed on the table for the rest of the semi final all you could hear was alex ....I thought that was bad enough but then came the final and his antics carried on even at one point had a bottle of bear in his hand ... i for one was very surprised he was not warned about his behaviour while Darren was at the table ....A damned shame really for alex to behave in this manner i have lost a lot of respect for this dude now no doubt a few more pool fans will feel the same ...by the way i am not the bowman that plays pool i was a archer,,,hence the name ...
Yes,I to watched all of the stream and i found alex`s behaviour appalling to say the least....Even while the 14 - 1 semi final was been played the noise alex was making was deafening infact i turned the volume down lol..But what annoyed me as well was when alex kept shouting at darren/neils to hurry up and get the match over with..Then at one point you saw alex at there table carryin on .at one point while darren was at the table .then when the camera stayed on the table for the rest of the semi final all you could hear was alex ....I thought that was bad enough but then came the final and his antics carried on even at one point had a bottle of bear in his hand ... i for one was very surprised he was not warned about his behaviour while Darren was at the table ....A damned shame really for alex to behave in this manner i have lost a lot of respect for this dude now no doubt a few more pool fans will feel the same ...by the way i am not the bowman that plays pool i was a archer,,,hence the name ...
Just to play devi's advocate once again wouldnt cutting it short effect said dvd sales as their would be less matches to sell?
Just a thought
No. 1, 2, and 3. have been extensively talked about with much more support than ForumGhosts "DVD Sale theory."
Yes, cutting short affects DVD sales. It also affects the tournament and Darren. You're reaching here. What makes you think Pat can call it off to begin with?
Pat and crew have acted exemplary in the past. Absent any evidence to the contrary, there is no reason to believe they would break from a 20 year tradition of excellence.
Now, perhaps you can point to something other than your own idea that they *might* have been motivated by DVD sales.
Any statements? A writing of some sort? Anything?
Did you see the stream?
To quote a famous American-"There you go again."
Stop messing up the facts in order to get your point across. DA was not getting 20K but 1st prize was $2500. So was reported by accustats. No pro would like to have a title that was tainted with the stigma of forfeit. "Yeah he only won because Alex was drunk".
I forgot why I stopped posting on forums for over a year. People can make accustations and innuendos without taking the responsibility for them. Say it to Pats face why dont you. Ah never mind......
Stop messing up the facts in order to get your point across. DA was not getting 20K but 1st prize was $2500. So was reported by accustats. No pro would like to have a title that was tainted with the stigma of forfeit. "Yeah he only won because Alex was drunk".
I forgot why I stopped posting on forums for over a year. People can make accustations and innuendos without taking the responsibility for them. Say it to Pats face why dont you. Ah never mind......
Be more than happy to the next time I see him.
That's not a bad rap with the rest of the pool world -- just one numbnuts opinion
Lou Figueroa
DVD sales are a possible motive...
Can someone tell me if this was a PPV event or being streamed for free? 400 spectators have been mentioned -- I'm guessing the people in the stands paid to get into the arena -- can anyone confirm?
Lou Figueroa
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Good people sometimes make mistakes -- I don't think you can give anyone carte blanche when it looks this bad and tough questions need to be asked. I think that's what we're trying to sort out.
Lou Figueroa
Pat and Accu-Stats have done great things for pool. But sometimes good people make mistakes and if you don't want that to happen again and again you stop and see what happened when things look this bad for Alex, the game, the DCC, and Accu-Stats.
Lou Figueroa