Eagle Eye Takes Aim at 14.1 High Runs

[gerryf]

Didn’t anyone else notice that in the video where Shaw describes the pockets as “buckets” he ALSO mentioned that they were the same size as the table Schmidt used?!?

It sounds like there's nobody complaining about the 5" pockets. Mosconi and Schmidt both used 5" pockets, although Schmidt used a 9' table instead of an 8'. The complaints are about the angles on the edges of the pocket. Some angles make the pockets just suck in balls that go anywhere near them. There were a bunch of shots going to the corner pockets that would have missed on most tables, and people picked up on that pretty quick. It was repeatedly commented on in the forums and on the stream chat.

But this is an issue that could be laid to rest in five minutes if the organizers were interested. Maybe they just like to engage the audience and help them find things to complain about?

 

[realkingcobra]

It sounds like there's nobody complaining about the 5" pockets. Mosconi and Schmidt both used 5" pockets, although Schmidt used a 9' table instead of an 8'. The complaints are about the angles on the edges of the pocket. Some angles make the pockets just suck in balls that go anywhere near them. There were a bunch of shots going to the corner pockets that would have missed on most tables, and people picked up on that pretty quick. It was repeatedly commented on in the forums and on the stream chat.

But this is an issue that could be laid to rest in five minutes if the organizers were interested. Maybe they just like to engage the audience and help them find things to complain about?

Look at it this way, if players today, even this event organizer has claimed a high run of 311 balls on a Diamond 9ft, and others have run 300+ on a Diamond, Joshua Filler ran a 285 on the Diamond in the DCC high run competition, why, WHY aren't those skills good enough to break the 526 and 626 high run records given the right incentives to do so? I mean, come on, 311 balls, but the pockets are to tight???? I don't buy that, and I certainly don't buy into the need for 5"+ pockets to break either one of those records. Give the players the incentive, the right incentive, and they'll break those records on a Diamond ProAm with ProCut pockets for sure. Does pool really need this circus act to get people wanting to play 14.1 again? Not at all, all this show does is give total control to the organizers of it, has nothing to do with making 14.1 more popular to play!!!

 

[Sheldon]

This site is pretty cool. Not 100% accurate, especially if you don't have a clear picture that is not taken at any kind of an angle.

Measure in photo online ‐ eleif.net

Take approximate measurements from an image using an object with known size as scale. Quick, simple, online and without upload.

eleif.net

 

[ChrisinNC]

This site is pretty cool. Not 100% accurate, especially if you don't have a clear picture that is not taken at any kind of an angle.

Measure in photo online ‐ eleif.net

Take approximate measurements from an image using an object with known size as scale. Quick, simple, online and without upload.

eleif.net

I get the idea but you are right, very inaccurate. Your two green lines indicating the mouth and the throat of the pocket are not parallel with each other, as they should be. This either means you screwed up or the pocket fitter screwed up, or I guess you can attribute it to the angle of the photo.

Also your red line indicating 4.5 inches, which should pass through center of both balls doesn’t come close to passing through the center of the 14 ball. As that is your baseline measurement upon which all other measurements are calculated, would seem to make all your subsequent measurements inaccurate.

Also the green line indicating your throat measurement looks to be drawn significantly deeper than where the throat should be measured, which is at the dropoff point of the slate, just because it is at the back of the facings where they join the pocket liner does not mean those are the points to accurately measure the throat from.

However, if your calculations are ballpark correct, it means the pocket facing angle is at least closer to a standard 142°, which makes the 5-1/4 inch pocket openings play a little tougher than I had initially speculated. Can anyone confirm this indeed is photos of the table that Shaw set the record on?

 

[garczar]

I get the idea but you are right, very inaccurate. Your two green lines indicating the mouth and the throat of the pocket are not parallel with each other, as they should be. This either means you screwed up or the pocket fitter screwed up, or I guess you can attribute it to the angle of the photo.

Also the green line indicating your throat measurement looks a little bit deeper than where the throat should be measured, which is at the dropoff point of the slate, just because it is at the back of the facings where they join the pocket liner does not mean those are the points to accurately measure the throat from.

However, if your calculations are ballpark correct, it means the pocket facing angle is at least closer to a standard 142°, which makes the 5-1/4 inch pocket openings play a little tougher than I had initially speculated. Can anyone confirm this indeed is photos of the table that Shaw set the record on?

Be nice if someone with access to the table could do a quick Dr.Dave TDF of it. I'm sure its in the easy category but who cares, 714 is still nuts.

 

[Sheldon]

However, if your calculations are ballpark correct, it means the pocket facing angle is at least closer to a standard 142°, which makes the 5-1/4 inch pocket openings play a little tougher than I had initially speculated. Can anyone confirm this indeed is photos of the table that Shaw set the record on?

That's for sure the table, it's a screenshot from the cue it up podcast where Jayson is showing the table on video.
Here's another go at it:

and the picture from the screen capture if you want to try it yourself: (download the pic, then upload to the site)

Measure in photo online ‐ eleif.net

Take approximate measurements from an image using an object with known size as scale. Quick, simple, online and without upload.

eleif.net

Huge congratulations to Shaw, an amazing accomplishment. Really great interview here:

Jayson comes on around 52:30.

 

[ChrisinNC]

That's for sure the table, it's a screenshot from the cue it up podcast where Jayson is showing the table on video.
Here's another go at it:

and the picture from the screen capture if you want to try it yourself: (download the pic, then upload to the site)

Measure in photo online ‐ eleif.net

Take approximate measurements from an image using an object with known size as scale. Quick, simple, online and without upload.

eleif.net

Huge congratulations to Shaw, an amazing accomplishment. Really great interview here:

Jayson comes on around 52:30.

Yes, thanks. Your revised ball measurement line as well as your throat measurement line is now more accurate. The updated changes now calculate to a roughly 139° pocket facing angle, which is closer to what I had initially thought.

The last photo of the pocket you showed above with the long red lines forming the pocket facing tapers, I set my protractor to it and confirm indeed, a 139° PFA.

 

[iusedtoberich]

What’s the over under on the video release? I put it at maybe 3 months. No one will care then. Same as Schmidt.

This is actually a good opportunity for Schmidt. He should steal this current momentum and put his on YouTube for free right now.

Imo.

Thanks for showcasing the players.

 

[straightline]

One thing jumps out to me: Schmidt went through extensive prep and Shaw seems to have just shown up and manufactured it on the fly. Surreal.

 

[SBC]

I know a man who saw lots of the Babe’s 768....people were in and out....always someone there...but nobody witnessed the whole run.

And his run was on a 9 foot, no gaffed table.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

The updated changes now calculate to a roughly 139° pocket facing angle

Half the narrowing recommended in WPA specs - soft, but not what I'd call gaffed.

pj
chgo

 

[ChrisinNC]

Half the narrowing recommended in WPA specs - soft, but not what I'd call gaffed.

pj
chgo

Yes, exactly half. I agree, not gaffed but certainly as far as they felt they could push the envelope and still get away with it. Their very well conceived plan worked to perfection, and whoever did the work on the rails / facings / angles was a real pro that knew exactly what was needed.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Their very well conceived plan worked to perfection

I hope so - I’m enjoying the show and don’t want it to be clouded by controversy.

pj
chgo

 

[cueman]

That's for sure the table, it's a screenshot from the cue it up podcast where Jayson is showing the table on video.
Here's another go at it:

and the picture from the screen capture if you want to try it yourself: (download the pic, then upload to the site)

Measure in photo online ‐ eleif.net

Take approximate measurements from an image using an object with known size as scale. Quick, simple, online and without upload.

eleif.net

Huge congratulations to Shaw, an amazing accomplishment. Really great interview here:

Jayson comes on around 52:30.

Those pocket measurements show 3/4 inch difference from front to back so they are standard angle pockets. Not a gaff table. Thanks for sharing.

 

[WildWing]

That's for sure the table, it's a screenshot from the cue it up podcast where Jayson is showing the table on video.
Here's another go at it:

and the picture from the screen capture if you want to try it yourself: (download the pic, then upload to the site)

Measure in photo online ‐ eleif.net

Take approximate measurements from an image using an object with known size as scale. Quick, simple, online and without upload.

eleif.net

Huge congratulations to Shaw, an amazing accomplishment. Really great interview here:

Jayson comes on around 52:30.

Last time I saw jaws that big was when I was handling alligators in a wildlife park in the early 70s. I'm not sure I've seen bigger pockets since. Not making any judgements, but it keeps me wondering.

 

[markjames]

these are bigger than alligators, more like the grand canyon!

haha

show us the pockets
no
show us the pockets
no
we deserve to see the pockets
go away
show me the pockets i have experience
shut up
show us the pockets
never gonna happen
show me the pockets
no
show us the pockets
we don’t care about you
show me the pockets
no

c’mon people this is pathetic

 

[Dead Money]

I hope so - I’m enjoying the show and don’t want it to be clouded by controversy.

pj
chgo

Do not worry. Must of us love it and are very exited about following this.

 

[realkingcobra]

Those pocket measurements show 3/4 inch difference from front to back so they are standard angle pockets. Not a gaff table. Thanks for sharing.

Pictures can only tell so much, but won't replace the facts. But they're not 5" that's for damn sure.

 

[AtLarge]

... where the throat should be measured, which is at the dropoff point of the slate, ...

For Dr. Dave's TDF, the throat is measured well behind the dropoff point. It's measured at the intersection of two lines -- one along the facing and one that is parallel to, and 2" behind, the front edge (the nose) of the cushion. Picture here: https://billiards.colostate.edu/faq/table/tdf/

 

[gerryf]

Yes, exactly half. I agree, not gaffed but certainly as far as they felt they could push the envelope and still get away with it. Their very well conceived plan worked to perfection, and whoever did the work on the rails / facings / angles was a real pro that knew exactly what was needed.

That's interesting though, as anyone pursuing a high-run record in the future will want to similarly set it up to be advantageous to the player.

So the standard now is 5 1/4" pockets and a half angle facings.

And the organizers just have to say they visited the Street Light and made their table the same as the one Jayson used.

I'm a little confused though about the image showing 4.95" pockets. Is that the same table?