Eagle Eye Takes Aim at 14.1 High Runs

Splitting the points of the pockets on this Diamond with the balls, still leaves about an 1/8"th gap between the balls, that makes this PRO CUT pocket 4 5/8"ths, not 4 1/2" ProCut.View attachment 625319
I don’t think you’re factoring in that the rail doesn’t contact the mid-point of the ball, rather it touches a little above the mid point. As a result, part of the ball’s diameter fits UNDER the rail. So using a ball to measure pocket size can be deceptive.
 

boogieman

It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
Those look like more normal gc pockets than the first picture, which makes the facings look parallel
I think the balls are also sitting at an angle. It's hard to tell, but on video the opening looked like it could actually be 5". The facings, don't appear to be parallel, but they are definitely at a shallower angle than stock tables. I'm not here to shit on any of this. It's an amazing accomplishment! Just the fact that he over doubled SVB's high run shows what an absolute BEAST he was.

I will say it would be nice to actually publish the measurements, if for no other reason that others could set up a similar table to be on similar ground for attempts. As it sits, without published pocket specs, it's just like having a high run competition on your modified home table in your basement. Sure, you'll get clout amongst people who play there, but it's not repeatable for others. I have no beef in this or any other of the 14:1 drama. It's an amazing accomplishment and I'm ecstatic that he got a 714! Hell, you could give me 1' pockets and I'd probably never break 500 in my lifetime. Too much focus and CB control required. It's an astounding feat.
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
Seems like only you care?



A playground that you and your friends are not invited to.
Who gives a shit what you think, or don't think. I still strongly feel its disrespectful to the best players today, to NOT allow them to set a world record high run on today's equipment, not yesterday's joke!
 

dendweller

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
I think the balls are also sitting at an angle. It's hard to tell, but on video the opening looked like it could actually be 5". The facings, don't appear to be parallel, but they are definitely at a shallower angle than stock tables. I'm not here to shit on any of this. It's an amazing accomplishment! Just the fact that he over doubled SVB's high run shows what an absolute BEAST he was.

I will say it would be nice to actually publish the measurements, if for no other reason that others could set up a similar table to be on similar ground for attempts. As it sits, without published pocket specs, it's just like having a high run competition on your modified home table in your basement. Sure, you'll get clout amongst people who play there, but it's not repeatable for others. I have no beef in this or any other of the 14:1 drama. It's an amazing accomplishment and I'm ecstatic that he got a 714! Hell, you could give me 1' pockets and I'd probably never break 500 in my lifetime. Too much focus and CB control required. It's an astounding feat.
He's a great shooter, it's a great accomplishment. But if people want wag around world record it's time to have a standard. I think the original OP was kind of kidding but he's got a point, the next person to run one of these will be compelled to make the pockets easier.
From what I've read, Jason is not a fan of soft tables.
 

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I just made a ridiculously long post discussing some of this: Shuddy’s take on 14.1 high runs

But here’s my final thoughts on it:

BUT HERE IS THE MOST IMPORTANT POINT WITH REGARDS TO THIS ISSUE (I pressed all the options for this text!!)

People discussing pocket measurements and angles are doing so if there is some kind of standard to be adhered to regarding solo exhibition high runs in straight pool. To my knowledge, there is no such standard. When the BCA reviewed Schmidt’s 626 footage, what standards did they use to assess the validity of the run? Did they have the exact measurements and angles of the pockets on his table? When for decades we accepted Mosconi’s 526 as the official high run, what standards did we apply to our acceptance of that? As we accept Florian’s cue ball spinning on the spot for 40 seconds, what standards do we apply to that? Do we know how heavy his cue ball was or what kind of cloth he used?

American pool has enough trouble applying standards to it’s most popular formats, and just as much difficulty making the game a professional sport, but somehow, people think they have enough information about both tables in question to determine one run’s validity over the other based on some kind of intangible standard they’ve created for the acceptance of solo exhibition straight pool runs.

Finally, from my point of view, here’s what matters.

John Schmidt set himself the goal of beating Mosconi’s recognized world record high run of 526. He spent months, not to mention the years leading up to that point, dedicating himself solely to the pursuit of that goal. When he missed on a 300, he picked up his cue and started again. When he missed on a 400, he picked up his cue and started again. I can’t imagine how he must have felt and the determination he must have mustered to continue fighting to achieve his goal. He surely battled demons that tried to stop him. He overcame those demons and achieved his goal. And no one can take that away from him. He beat Mosconi’s officially recognized word record run of 526, a record that stood for decades, and that will always be his achievement, in his life, and in the record books that persist after him.

Jayson Shaw, in this last week, has displayed a ruthless bullheaded focus and persistence that I’ve never witnessed before, culminating in a 12 hour session that ran from 9PM to 9AM, with his final inning resulting in the consecutive potting of 714 balls. Jayson Shaw set himself a target of beating 500. When he missed on 200, 300, and 400, he didn’t even falter. He pulled the balls out of the pockets, picked up his cue, and started again. He couldn’t even bring himself to drive away from the table, turning his car around, checking his family back into the hotel, and coming back to the venue for one final push. After his run of 714 balls, he had blisters on his fingers and he commented to the viewers that they would not believe how sore his back was. The improvement he displayed from day to day, even session to session, was obvious to anyone with a rudimentary knowledge of the game. He too must have battled demons that tried to stop him, and he too overcame those demons.

Pool is a sport of determination, will, endurance, physical and mental precision, doubt and fear, confidence and certainty, elation and despair. And both John Schmidt and Jayson Shaw experienced all of these things in the pursuit of their goal. They are both Legends of the Game that we all love.

Thank you, John Schmidt, for doing what many thought was impossible in the modern age. Thank you, Jayson Shaw, for inspiring me and I’m sure many others with your incredible display of determination and downright stubborn refusal to give up. And thank you to Street Lights and Legends for giving us railbirds the opportunity to enjoy every moment of this event.

This is pool distilled; one man and a table

Lovely post.

Lou Figueroa
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
Yep, I asked to make them nice like a diamond. I've always felt that practice on the tight pocket is the way to go. Either you are used to what you run into when it matters, or they are more forgiving and it feels easy!

For the record, I'm in the Seattle area, and did not use the services of a frequent poster here! :)
😅🤣😂
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
I don’t think you’re factoring in that the rail doesn’t contact the mid-point of the ball, rather it touches a little above the mid point. As a result, part of the ball’s diameter fits UNDER the rail. So using a ball to measure pocket size can be deceptive.
You're informing me of that?😅🤣🤣To get a 4 1/2' ProCut pocket opening, the point to point measurement needs to read 4 7/16"ths to account for the down angle and the contact point on the balls, does that explain what you're emplying i don't know, or I'm not aware of?😅
 

Texas Carom Club

9ball did to billiards what hiphop did to america
Silver Member
Who gives a shit what you think, or don't think. I still strongly feel its disrespectful to the best players today, to NOT allow them to set a world record high run on today's equipment, not yesterday's joke!
Even less give a shit about all this Bs your crying about that no one even asked your opinion on,
Those 4 top players didn't seem to disrespected by it to try and earn a buck

shut the f up already dipshit
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
While this back and forth personally gets a little frustrating, and I should just tune out...I will say it's been good for one thing. I now know why I cannot run 100's of balls. My pockets are too tight!!!! (No chance of being able to move those balls back to the ledge, as far back as I can get them!
And if you use a protractor to take the point to point measurement of 1 pocket, take that span, place the protractor points on a machinist steel ruler, you can then read the measurement between the points of the protractor which will give you a measurement of 4 7/16" then with the protractor set, you can compare the other 3 pockets to see if they're the same, or not. All pool tables look good in pictures, its what those pictures don't reveal that tell the truth about the job that was done. I would have to guess Rich did the work on your rails.
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
Ri
Yep, I asked to make them nice like a diamond. I've always felt that practice on the tight pocket is the way to go. Either you are used to what you run into when it matters, or they are more forgiving and it feels easy!

For the record, I'm in the Seattle area, and did not use the services of a frequent poster here! :)
Rich is the only table mechanic I can think of in your area that could have done the pocket work like that on your table.
 

ChrisinNC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think the balls are also sitting at an angle. It's hard to tell, but on video the opening looked like it could actually be 5". The facings, don't appear to be parallel, but they are definitely at a shallower angle than stock tables. I'm not here to shit on any of this. It's an amazing accomplishment! Just the fact that he over doubled SVB's high run shows what an absolute BEAST he was.

I will say it would be nice to actually publish the measurements, if for no other reason that others could set up a similar table to be on similar ground for attempts. As it sits, without published pocket specs, it's just like having a high run competition on your modified home table in your basement. Sure, you'll get clout amongst people who play there, but it's not repeatable for others. I have no beef in this or any other of the 14:1 drama. It's an amazing accomplishment and I'm ecstatic that he got a 714! Hell, you could give me 1' pockets and I'd probably never break 500 in my lifetime. Too much focus and CB control required. It's an astounding feat.
The whole attitude the organizers have shown regarding keeping the pocket specs a confidential secret just rubs me the wrong way. They are basically saying to us “How dare anyone have the nerve to request us to accurately reveal the pocket specs on the table we provided for this world record high run”. Like it’s some coveted secret. They are inviting more and more speculation and questions, perhaps intentionally?
 
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dquarasr

Registered
Didn’t anyone else notice that in the video where Shaw describes the pockets as “buckets” he ALSO mentioned that they were the same size as the table Schmidt used?!?
 

puma122

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Ri
Rich is the only table mechanic I can think of in your area that could have done the pocket work like that on your table.
Yep. Honestly, just went with him as I got the table from him at a time tables were not easy to come by. I am happy with it, and more importantly, my wife signed off on the "look" of the table...
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
Didn’t anyone else notice that in the video where Shaw describes the pockets as “buckets” he ALSO mentioned that they were the same size as the table Schmidt used?!?
Not a chance, all they're trying to compare is 5" to 5" and this table has a bigger pocket mouth than 5" I've seen the pictures of the pockets on the table John played on, and I can assure you they're the same stock 5" corner pockets that are on the 25 Rebco 9fts at the Garage Billiards in Seattle. See the thing about using a home style 9ft with number 6 pocket irons in the corners is if you widen the throat of the pocket, you can't hide that fact behind the pocket liner, and bolt the rails to the castings as far back as they can sit to make the pocket even bigger, like you can on the GC3's. The #6 pocket irons have metal ears that slide into the end of the rails, then bolt in place from under the rails. The only way to make the throat of the pockets bigger on a Rebco table is to gap the rail from the pocket iron leather which produces a noticeable gap on both sides of the pocket like its not even mounted, and you'd have to leave the pocket mounting bolts out because you couldn't do that with them mounted. The only other way to make the throat bigger is to sand back the miter angle in the throat, sanding off the visible topside of the finish of the rail at the same time, clearly visible if done. Like I've said, I've been working on pool tables for 40 years, I know what I'm talking about and would take anyone's bet to prove me wrong, NOT going to happen!! I've been doing this work for way to long to be fooled by ANYONE!!! So yeah, 5" vs 5" supposedly is the closest the two tables come to being the same.
 

puma122

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The whole attitude the organizers have shown regarding keeping the pocket specs a confidential secret just rubs me the wrong way. They are basically saying to us “How dare anyone have the nerve to request us to accurately reveal the pocket specs on the table used for this world record high run”. Like it’s some coveted secret. They are inviting more and more speculation and questions, perhaps intentionally?
I don't know the organizer, and certainly have enjoyed what I saw for what I paid. (Nothing) But, I agree.
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
Yep. Honestly, just went with him as I got the table from him at a time tables were not easy to come by. I am happy with it, and more importantly, my wife signed off on the "look" of the table...
I know Riches work when I see it, I taught him how to rebuild pockets, and he as a pocket gage i designed for sizing the pockets to the exact measurements, as well as all the rest of the tools he needed to mimic the same work I do.
 

puma122

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I know Riches work when I see it, I taught him how to rebuild pockets, and he as a pocket gage i designed for sizing the pockets to the exact measurements, as well as all the rest of the tools he needed to mimic the same work I do.
Cool. Glad I could reap the rewards for your tutelage of Rich.
 
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