Earl admits cheating Charlie Williams in the Skins on Tape

[PKM]

To insist that Earl "cheated" is way out of line. He committed a foul, the ref didn't see it, and his mistake (although open to debate) was not calling himself. In baseball when a pitcher throws a questionable pitch that could go either way and the ump calls it a strike, have you ever seen a pitcher stop and approach the ump and say "sorry blue, but I have to be honest in saying that from here it definitely wasn't a strike." A receiver catches the ball on the sidelines and the ref calls it 'in', have you ever seen a receiver call the ref to admit that only one foot touched the ground?
In sports, you take any breaks you can get. You play the game in the best you can, and if the calls go your way, you take them. 'Cause there are equally days where the calls won't go your way.
I still think Earl should have called himself in this particular situation, but this incident doesn't make him a cheater by any means.
dave

That's a good point, but for some reason there does seem to be a difference in pool. I guess it depends on whether there is an expectation that players should call a foul on themselves. No one would expect it in football, for example.

Instead of saying he got cheated by the table, I think Earl should have said, Look, there was a lot at stake so I was going by the technical rules that says the ref must call a foul. Then he could have used the football analogy! (I still think the commentators were justified in calling it poor sportsmanship)

 

[John Barton]

No, if Earl knew he committed a foul then he cheated by not calling it. It's that simple.

By that logic it's alright to commit fouls intentionally if it can be undetected by the referee.

If Earl committed a foul and honestly did believe that he didn't then that's not cheating. If he knew then he did. It's black and white on this one.

See the George Breedlove school of ethics if you need further lessons. That would be the one where he called a foul on himself to cost himself an IPT card in Louisville least year.

 

[JimS]

No, if Earl knew he committed a foul then he cheated by not calling it. It's that simple.

By that logic it's alright to commit fouls intentionally if it can be undetected by the referee.

If Earl committed a foul and honestly did believe that he didn't then that's not cheating. If he knew then he did. It's black and white on this one.

See the George Breedlove school of ethics if you need further lessons. That would be the one where he called a foul on himself to cost himself an IPT card in Louisville least year.

TAP! TAP! TAP!

 

[ShootingArts]

"when in Rome . . ."

There was a time when I called fouls on myself under any circumstances. I still do when in a sporting situation. However, I am long past the age and skill level where I felt I could give pretty much anyone the "spot" of calling fouls on myself when they didn't do the same.

Dave's position definitely doesn't seem to be the popular one however I agree with him, when in Rome, do as the Romans do. When in competition where it is not the competitors job to call a foul on themselves and other players are not, don't shoot yourself in the foot. Accept that fouls called and uncalled are one of the elements of the game that you are not responsible for.

I cheerfully call my own fouls gambling and in casual play until I see the other player not doing the same when they blatantly foul. Then it depends on the mood I am in. I have long been a believer in meeting the other person halfway, good or bad.

Hu

To insist that Earl "cheated" is way out of line. He committed a foul, the ref didn't see it, and his mistake (although open to debate) was not calling himself. In baseball when a pitcher throws a questionable pitch that could go either way and the ump calls it a strike, have you ever seen a pitcher stop and approach the ump and say "sorry blue, but I have to be honest in saying that from here it definitely wasn't a strike." A receiver catches the ball on the sidelines and the ref calls it 'in', have you ever seen a receiver call the ref to admit that only one foot touched the ground?
In sports, you take any breaks you can get. You play the game in the best you can, and if the calls go your way, you take them. 'Cause there are equally days where the calls won't go your way.
I still think Earl should have called himself in this particular situation, but this incident doesn't make him a cheater by any means.
dave

 

[hardydson]

Earl

Earl is Earl....i think the reason this keeps coming back every few months is because it's Earl that's involved....I've got a match recorded where the Efrin Reyes fouls and it's not called...but no one seems to care about that...I not really taking up for Earl...He called me out in the crowd this past DCC..for no reason...i'm thinking what a a-hole ,but then i realized i'd been grinning from ear to ear the whole time...one thing is for sure Earl=Entertainment...

 

[VIProfessor]

"Once to every man and nation comes the moment to decide..."

Each of us, at some point, has to determine whether we are going to be true to the best traditions of the game. We all know, or ought to know, that the right thing to do is to call the foul on yourself. When you don't do it you cheapens the match, yourself, and the sport.

Underneath all the hustling, scamming and perpetrating that many players must do to survive, when two players get down in the box there is an inherent beauty and purity that exists within the borders of the green cloth. When we dump or cheat on the table, we take away all that is noble and good about our sport. And for what--a few dollars? I thought that at the bottom of it all, we played this sport for love. After all, everyone knows that if it's just about the payday, there are at least 1,821,957 easier ways to make money than playing pool!

 

[cincyman]

So something is only cheating or a crime if you get caught? It was cheating regardless of if the ref saw him do it or not. One's own sportmanship or morals should have nothing to do w/ if anyone is watching. What is right/wrong is the same whether or not a ref sees it.
Earl knows he cheated, and like a CHILD he tries to justify it by saying the table cheated him. Sorry earl but two wrongs don't make a right, i know it's childish but it applies. Same as if someone stole my wallet for example, if a week later i find a wallet on the ground it isn't my right to keep it now, to make up for the fact i was cheated earlier that week. Don't get me wrong, i like earl and think he is a great player but this is one issue i can't support him on.

I agree, the problem with pool and why it will never be worth anything is because of people in the pool world rationalize for Earl on this not being cheating. I am not saying he "cheated" but you have to believe but not saying anything he thinks he is getting away with something. In golf you call your own fouls and yes there is a munipulation of the rules now and then i am sure but nothing like it is in the pool world which is a shame. And i also agree a little with the other side as yes if the payouts were bigger they wouldnt have to cheat. But in order to get the payouts the sport has to ear respect which this type of "accepted" behavior it never will

 

[TheOne]

Hey now come on, Earl is just a red blooded American multi time world champion on the field of green. If Earl sunk the 9 ball 10 racks in a row with his hand and nobody saw it then fair play to him! Watch and learn kids!

USA USA USA!

 

[TheOne]

And i also agree a little with the other side as yes if the payouts were bigger they wouldnt have to cheat. But in order to get the payouts the sport has to ear respect which this type of "accepted" behavior it never will

Wow, u just summed up about 10 pages of waffle in another thread for me, rep! lol

 

[cincyman]

Wow, u just summed up about 10 pages of waffle in another thread for me, rep! lol

lol i know my spelling was off and i changed directions fast but i was mad and trying to type fast. I am very passsionate about this subject. I have never personally had to WIN or not EAT but i have been tight on my money and guess what when i fouled in a tournament or gambling i told the person i fouled and never thought twice. I play golf alot and probably bend the rules there more than i do in pool lol just because i dont know them well. I play pretty good and would love to see pool payouts bigger but the fact remains even if no one saw it its still a foul.

 

[BVal]

It is not cheating if you are playing withing the rules.
A definition from dictionary.com "To violate rules deliberately, as in a game"
Earl played within the rules that were layed out. I don't like earl and I don't hate earl, I am just sick and tired of this subject coming up over and over and over. Would I have handled it differently... Probably.... but he was playing within the rules that were set forth.

BVal

 

[jimmy-leggs]

No, if Earl knew he committed a foul then he cheated by not calling it. It's that simple.

By that logic it's alright to commit fouls intentionally if it can be undetected by the referee.

If Earl committed a foul and honestly did believe that he didn't then that's not cheating. If he knew then he did. It's black and white on this one.

See the George Breedlove school of ethics if you need further lessons. That would be the one where he called a foul on himself to cost himself an IPT card in Louisville least year.

i agree,BUT C,MON people he knew he fouled and said the ref didnt see it and yes i saw the shot before that (where there was something on the table)BUT THAT GIVES HIM NO EXCUSE TO DO WHAT HE DID.i love how people that cheat always have an excuse.EARL,you would be alot more of a man if you admitted to your mistake rather than making excuses.HIS antics are getting way out of line .
Most pro pool players really do represent the game in a professional manner,BUT i am affraid MR.STRICKLAND does not.

p.s. if earl would have raised his cue to take a swing at me like he did in another incident he would still be trying to digest my cue.Who the h.e.l.l. does this man think he is ?!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[BillYards]

"Where is there dignity unless there is honesty? " - Cicero (106 BC - 43 BC)

"No legacy is so rich as honesty." - William Shakespeare (1564 - 1616)

"Real integrity is doing the right thing, knowing that nobody's going to know whether you did it or not." - Oprah Winfrey (1954 - ),

"The reward for doing right is mostly an internal phenomenon: self-respect, dignity, integrity, and self- esteem." - Dr. Laura Schlessinger

"Winning is nice if you don't lose your integrity in the process." - Arnold Horshak

I was actually looking for the quotation that goes like this: "Honesty is doing the right thing while others are watching. Integrity is doing the right thing when others (like Scott Frost) can't see you."

I have a high regard for what Earl has accomplished in his career, but I hope he gets to a sports psycologist right away. He REALLY needs help. I am continually disappointed in his behavior. I have said it before: Do not bet on this guy unless you want to lose... not until he stops with the excuses.

My question is: How do you know if you are really better than another player unless you give him every chance to compete fairly against you??

If billiards is all about money for you, then I think you are missing the real value of the game. If you think cheating to beat your opponent (or to lose anyway, as Earl did) is ok, then the value of your entire existence on earth, your whole life, is cheapened.

Compete hard. Play like hell. But conduct yourself with integrity. Not for the benefit of everyone else, but for YOURSELF!

Nothing is sweeter than an honest victory. Nothing worse than a dishonest loss, when you can't even cheat your way to victory.

 

[Spritz]

Possible Cure?

Having read and reread the thread, I find it frustrating that so many fellow AZ'ers can list instances of fouls not called because the referee missed it. Another one comes to mind in the Trick Shot Championship a few years ago between Siegel and Massey. Alan Hopkins called two miss-hits against Massey which were also missed by the referee but allowed as "good." I would suggest in taped matches each player be allowed one challenge per match which would force the referee to review the video and make the correct call. Without this process, we "pool fanatics" will continue to debate these flaws in the matches which in my opinion detract, frustrate, and anger those of us who love the game. Just my two cents. . .

 

[Sprite]

Earl is not honest. But lucky thing is that William wins the game. Justice is done.

 

[ironman]

this is why the IPT had a ruel that if you foul and the ref does not call it your are supposed to call it on yourself , i guessing that if you didnt the game could be reviewed and the offending party would automatically lose or get a fine or both

Do you think KT or Deno would call one on themselves????

 

[jimmy-leggs]

Having read and reread the thread, I find it frustrating that so many fellow AZ'ers can list instances of fouls not called because the referee missed it. Another one comes to mind in the Trick Shot Championship a few years ago between Siegel and Massey. Alan Hopkins called two miss-hits against Massey which were also missed by the referee but allowed as "good." I would suggest in taped matches each player be allowed one challenge per match which would force the referee to review the video and make the correct call. Without this process, we "pool fanatics" will continue to debate these flaws in the matches which in my opinion detract, frustrate, and anger those of us who love the game. Just my two cents. . .

great idea.. my question is everytime you see this happen the refs are behind the shooter,why is that?the refs in pool need some lessons from that brunnette woman ref from england(sorry dont know her name)she is awesome.

 

[Rarelymisses]

Earl must feel like there is a chunk of him missing, and that chunk is a piece of his integrity. It was caught on tape for the whole world to see, and he can't take it back. It is a lesson in life for all of us. The tension that Earl must feel about that incident will last forever. There is a certain peace that comes with playing within the spirit of the game.

 

[jimmy-leggs]

Earl must feel like there is a chunk of him missing, and that chunk is a piece of his integrity. It was caught on tape for the whole world to see, and he can't take it back. It is a lesson in life for all of us. The tension that Earl must feel about that incident will last forever. There is a certain peace that comes with playing within the spirit of the game.

yes,and if he would have admitted it instead of making excuses this thread wouldnt even happen.

 

[HIRUN526]

As mentioned in another post the rules on the Skins Tournament state only the referee can call fouls and players can not.

The question is if a player tells the referee that he has fouled, will the referee accept the foul even though he did not see it and give the opponent ball in hand or will the referee say I can't accept your admission of foul because I did not witness the foul?

Very interesting.