Earl "The Pearl"...need I say more?

cubc said:
It's not a game of luck. There is luck involved but it's far from the main factor in the game.

If it's about luck then why do the same people win over and over again? They must be really really lucky.

Actually, you are right, Cubc. I must retract my original statement and edit it to this.

You know, maybe the players of today are better than the players of the '80s because today the professional players know exactly how to rig the rack for every break imaginable in 9-ball, and let's not forget how much talent it takes to break like a bird.

JAM
 
JAM said:
I understand why you may think this to be so, but today's pool is quite different than pool of the '80s. Of course, pool in the '80s was quite different than the '60s when they played 14.1 on 5-by-10's.

For starters, the equipment is totally different, to include the fast felt as opposed to slow cloth, and then there's the advent of break cue and jump cue technology with the non-leather tips.

Even the game of 9-ball has changed from the two-shot/push-out rules to what it is today, a game of luck.

The competition was strong in the '80s, but it was different than today's competition. I would venture to guess if you changed the rules of the game, to include the equipment, with no jump cues allowed, today's fierce competitors could have been yesterday's wimps.

In the '80s, the best shot maker won. Today, it's more a game of luck, especially 9-ball.

JAM

Jennie,
I seldom disagree with your posts and while 9 ball does have a bit of luck in it, it has always had a bit of luck in it.

Saying today's fierce competitors could have been yesterday's wimps because of jump cues is not fair. It's just another tool and everyone has it at their disposal. Jump cues and fast cloth aren't what's keeping some of our favorite players out of the winner's circle.

It is the same game for all players.

Players have to adjust no matter what era they are from.

The change of the guard happens in every sport and you can vilify the equipment, the rules, the era and even the players but the truth is that it is the same game for all players.

JoeyA (feels the frustration too)
 
JoeyA said:
Jennie,
I seldom disagree with your posts and while 9 ball does have a bit of luck in it, it has always had a bit of luck in it.

Saying today's fierce competitors could have been yesterday's wimps because of jump cues is not fair. It's just another tool and everyone has it at their disposal. Jump cues and fast cloth aren't what's keeping some of our favorite players out of the winner's circle.

It is the same game for all players.

Players have to adjust no matter what era they are from.

The change of the guard happens in every sport and you can vilify the equipment, the rules, the era and even the players but the truth is that it is the same game for all players.

JoeyA (feels the frustration too)

I used the word "wimp" in jest.

I am of the opinion, a very strong opinion from speaking with others who were players in the '80s era, that when they changed the rules of the game of 9-ball, the game that was played in almost 100 percent of all competitions in the United States, the luck factor in pool competitions grew immensely. 9-ball is a game of luck with today's rules, and they are much different than the two-shot/push-out rules of the '80s when a player had to shoot his way to the finish line, not rig a rack and not break like a bird.

Most of the champions in the '80s were champions because they shot their way to the winner's circle in an event with excellent shot-making skills. They played the game the way it is supposed to be played with real rules that allowed them to showcase their skills set on a table, which did not include, by the way, rigging racks and bird-breaking.

The same holds true for players in earlier eras. Do you think Willie Mosconi would rig a rack and break like a bird? Today's 9-ball rules, the way they are currently written, allow a luck factor into the game, all in the name of speed pool for TV purposes. The irony is nobody watches it on TV anyway. They can speed it up all they want. I am of the opinion that nobody cares in the United States about pool on TV.

Soon the existing lot of professional players will emigrate overseas to compete in lucrative events. Pool as we know it today is dying. No sponsors are forthcoming, and the industry sponsors in America are hurting from today's economy. Things aren't getting any better for American professional pool.

Today's players would not fare as well as they do today if they were playing pool in the '80s with the rules that were in play in the '80s. If they played on the equipment from the '80s, knocking in a couple thousand balls every single day on that equipment, some would excel, but there were no jump cues. The Tony Watsons of today wouldn't be able to jump his way to first place, as an example.

Personally, I think it is assine to compare players of any era considering the equipment, the rules, and the game itself was quite different, but I am not going to sit back and and read ignorant words that claim the players of the '80s weren't as good as today's players. Hogwash, I say.

I'm not sure how Irving Crane would have fared in the game of 9-ball on a Diamond with fast cloth, break cues and jump cues. By the same token, I'm not sure how well Larry Nevel would have fared on a 5-by-10 playing 14.1 on slow cloth.

I will continue to believe that the players of the '80s are just as good, if not better, than today's players, as do others on this thread. Most of the people making these assumptions and opinions that players from the '80s are not as good as players today were either toddlers or still an itch in their fathers' pants in the '80s era. How in the hell do they know how good the players were in the '80s? Did they see them up front and close? How can they come to these conclusions?

And that is my story, JoeyA, and I am sticking with it. Thanks for your kind reply.

JAM
 
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JoeyA said:
The change of the guard happens in every sport and....

BTW, JoeyA, I am hijacking the thread for one brief moment and hope the readers of the forum will indulge me. :o

I recently transcribed a Bobby Jindal speech, the new Governor of Louisiana. I really like the way this guy talks. What's the feeling of the Louisiana folks? He sure does seem sincere, and he's got a great sense of humor, too! :p

JAM
 
JAM said:
BTW, JoeyA, I am hijacking the thread for one brief moment and hope the readers of the forum will indulge me. :o

I recently transcribed a Bobby Jindal speech, the new Governor of Louisiana. I really like the way this guy talks. What's the feeling of the Louisiana folks? He sure does seem sincere, and he's got a great sense of humor, too! :p

JAM

We've got Bobby Jindal trying to clean up Baton Rouge. He seems sincere, funny yet very capable. Time will be the true judge of our new Guv-nah.

If we can just get someone in New Orleans to remove the buildings destroyed by Hurricane Katrina or at least fix them up, we can start returning to some normalcy.

We have a huge state budget surplus and if the politicians don't steal it or give it to undeserving constituents, we could bring New Orleans to a height it has never seen before.

Talking about heights: With the Mississippi River near record flood stages in New Orleans (BECAUSE OF THE REST OF THE NATIONS WATER COMING DOWN THE RIVER).:rolleyes: we are opening flood gates to tame the river a bit and are keeping our fingers crossed.

If I go under again, I'm going to leave New Orleans and move someplace where the pool action is plentiful and easy like it is here. :)

JoeyA
 
JAM said:
I used the word "wimp" in jest.

I am of the opinion, a very strong opinion from speaking with others who were players in the '80s era, that when they changed the rules of the game of 9-ball, the game that was played in almost 100 percent of all competitions in the United States, the luck factor in pool competitions grew immensely. 9-ball is a game of luck with today's rules, and they are much different than the two-shot/push-out rules of the '80s when a player had to shoot his way to the finish line, not rig a rack and not break like a bird.

Most of the champions in the '80s were champions because they shot their way to the winner's circle in an event with excellent shot-making skills. They played the game the way it is supposed to be played with real rules that allowed them to showcase their skills set on a table, which did not include, by the way, rigging racks and bird-breaking.

The same holds true for players in earlier eras. Do you think Willie Mosconi would rig a rack and break like a bird? Today's 9-ball rules, the way they are currently written, allow a luck factor into the game, all in the name of speed pool for TV purposes. The irony is nobody watches it on TV anyway. They can speed it up all they want. I am of the opinion that nobody cares in the United States about pool on TV.

Soon the existing lot of professional players will emigrate overseas to compete in lucrative events. Pool as we know it today is dying. No sponsors are forthcoming, and the industry sponsors in America are hurting from today's economy. Things aren't getting any better for American professional pool.

Today's players would not fare as well as they do today if they were playing pool in the '80s with the rules that were in play in the '80s. If they played on the equipment from the '80s, knocking in a couple thousand balls every single day on that equipment, some would excel, but there were no jump cues. The Tony Watsons of today wouldn't be able to jump his way to first place, as an example.

Personally, I think it is assine to compare players of any era considering the equipment, the rules, and the game itself was quite different, but I am not going to sit back and and read ignorant words that claim the players of the '80s weren't as good as today's players. Hogwash, I say.

I'm not sure how Irving Crane would have fared in the game of 9-ball on a Diamond with fast cloth, break cues and jump cues. By the same token, I'm not sure how well Larry Nevel would have fared on a 5-by-10 playing 14.1 on slow cloth.

I will continue to believe that the players of the '80s are just as good, if not better, than today's players, as do others on this thread. Most of the people making these assumptions and opinions that players from the '80s are not as good as players today were either toddlers or still an itch in their fathers' pants in the '80s era. How in the hell do they know how good the players were in the '80s? Did they see them up front and close? How can they come to these conclusions?

And that is my story, JoeyA, and I am sticking with it. Thanks for your kind reply.

JAM

I doubt if today's players are any better than yesteryear's players, period. Today's players may not be as good but it is futile to make the comparisons. The comparisons however, do provide grist for the mill so that we may all take our turn catching a few rays in the sun.

JoeyA
 
Well, as far as I'm concerned with this old school vs new school stuff all I have to say is this. If you got a handful, say 6 players, of the current young guns and put them up against Earl, Buddy, Efren, Sigel, Varner, and Archer in their prime.....my money would be on the old guard any day of the week. I just don't think the young players today have the "experience" that those guys had at that age.
MULLY
 
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JAM said:
I used the word "wimp" in jest.

I am of the opinion, a very strong opinion from speaking with others who were players in the '80s era, that when they changed the rules of the game of 9-ball, the game that was played in almost 100 percent of all competitions in the United States, the luck factor in pool competitions grew immensely. 9-ball is a game of luck with today's rules, and they are much different than the two-shot/push-out rules of the '80s when a player had to shoot his way to the finish line, not rig a rack and not break like a bird.

Most of the champions in the '80s were champions because they shot their way to the winner's circle in an event with excellent shot-making skills. They played the game the way it is supposed to be played with real rules that allowed them to showcase their skills set on a table, which did not include, by the way, rigging racks and bird-breaking.

The same holds true for players in earlier eras. Do you think Willie Mosconi would rig a rack and break like a bird? Today's 9-ball rules, the way they are currently written, allow a luck factor into the game, all in the name of speed pool for TV purposes. The irony is nobody watches it on TV anyway. They can speed it up all they want. I am of the opinion that nobody cares in the United States about pool on TV.

Soon the existing lot of professional players will emigrate overseas to compete in lucrative events. Pool as we know it today is dying. No sponsors are forthcoming, and the industry sponsors in America are hurting from today's economy. Things aren't getting any better for American professional pool.

Today's players would not fare as well as they do today if they were playing pool in the '80s with the rules that were in play in the '80s. If they played on the equipment from the '80s, knocking in a couple thousand balls every single day on that equipment, some would excel, but there were no jump cues. The Tony Watsons of today wouldn't be able to jump his way to first place, as an example.

Personally, I think it is assine to compare players of any era considering the equipment, the rules, and the game itself was quite different, but I am not going to sit back and and read ignorant words that claim the players of the '80s weren't as good as today's players. Hogwash, I say.

I'm not sure how Irving Crane would have fared in the game of 9-ball on a Diamond with fast cloth, break cues and jump cues. By the same token, I'm not sure how well Larry Nevel would have fared on a 5-by-10 playing 14.1 on slow cloth.

I will continue to believe that the players of the '80s are just as good, if not better, than today's players, as do others on this thread. Most of the people making these assumptions and opinions that players from the '80s are not as good as players today were either toddlers or still an itch in their fathers' pants in the '80s era. How in the hell do they know how good the players were in the '80s? Did they see them up front and close? How can they come to these conclusions?

And that is my story, JoeyA, and I am sticking with it. Thanks for your kind reply.

JAM

Hope your rant made you feel better. Always good to let it all out!

But your remarks are rather heavy on inaccuracies...too many to comment on. But you seem to think that slow cloth made the games more difficult.

As everyone knows, fast greens and/or downhill putts are more difficult and so too is fast cloth...and for exactly the same reasons.

Excessive shot force errors are exaggerated and fear of running long tends to encourage leaving the ball short.

Regards,
Jim
 
av84fun said:
Hope your rant made you feel better. Always good to let it all out!

But your remarks are rather heavy on inaccuracies...too many to comment on....

Funny thing is I was thinking the same thing about you, Jimmy Baby! :D

Rather than comment on how I would describe your remarks, I will reply that I think there are people who would agree with me and think my remarks are right on. As well, there may be some people who agree with you.

I will not, however, label you as inaccurate. Misinformed maybe, but not inaccurate. :p

JAM
 
What was that crazy tour that was set up by that American scamster? The "Real money" one? Agh the IPT that was it!

Wasn't that supposed to be real rules bla bla, on old equipment, forgot but sure there wasn't jump cues also?

Wasn't it great to see the likes of Mike S wipe the floor with these new "lucky" players of today! Oops it wasn't 9 ball, but it was a game with less luck on slow cloth with no jump cues (I think?)

The fact is a lot of the old so called legends got their arses kicked, many by players who'd never even played American pool before!

I guess when you get old its easy to remember the "good old days" and dismiss todays champions as mere pretenders, "lucky" though, I don't think so!

EDIT;
This is why SVB is such a fine example to American and any other pro who is constantly looking for excuses to blame for their lack of earnings...its the WPA, the BCA, those nasty Aliens, their lucky, its the jump cues, its the cloth..bla bla bla!

It comes down to good old fashioned hard work and practice, if you don't do that you ain't gonna win $h!t no matter what era! SVB and even corey have shown that if you put in your time you can still make big bucks and even beat a filipino ot two! ;)
 
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Thankfully, there are MANY brilliant British players who appreciate the legends of the sport. It is a shame there is a few rotten apples in England who continue to pick scabs and cause consternation on an American forum which happens to consist of American players who are legends of the game.

And FWIW, there were MANY American legends who did well on the IPT Tour with the leather tips and slow cloth, Nick Varner being one of them.

JAM
 
Don't get me wrong, what Appleton, Boyes and a couple of other Brits did on the IPT was very impressive. But I have yet to see anyone who played any better then Buddy, Sigel and Mizerak played in the 70's and 80's. And Hopkins, Rempe, Varner and Fusco were not far behind them. I'm talking all games now, not just one. 9-Ball, One Pocket and 14.1, these guys were what we called "All Around" players. With Buddy, Sigel, Varner and Fusco, you could throw Bank Pool into the mix too.

Before I get bashed, there are two exceptions to the above, named Efren and Parica. They DID play as good as anyone I named. Maybe better in some cases. Modern day, there are many great players, maybe more now than ever. But only a few stack up as all around players with the all time greats. Ralf Souquet comes to mind first. It's a real short list.
 
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jay helfert said:
Don't get me wrong, what Appleton, Boyes and a couple of other Brits did on the IPT was very impressive. But I have yet to see anyone who played any better then Buddy, Sigel and Mizerak played in the 70's and 80's. And Hopkins, Rempe, Varner and Fusco were not far behind them. I'm talking all games now, not just one. 9-Ball, One Pocket and 14.1, these guys were what we called "All Around" players. With Buddy, Varner and Fusco, you could throw Bank Pool into the mix too.

Before I get bashed, there are two exceptions to the above, named Efren and Parica. They DID play as good as anyone I named. Maybe better in some cases. Modern day, there are many great players, maybe more now than ever. But only a few stack up as all around players with the all time greats. Ralf Souquet comes to mind first. It's a real short list.

agreed.

there are more top level players today, but that doens't mean that the players at the top are particularly better. sigel, hall, strickland, varner would have all been dominant today if they had been born later.
 
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jay helfert said:
...Before I get bashed....

You won't get any bashing out of me. In fact, I give you a salute and a standing ovation. True words spoken from a man who saw it all, up front and close, and continues to see pool on an international scale today.

[Round of applause.]

JAM
 
JAM said:
You won't get any bashing out of me. In fact, I give you a salute and a standing ovation. True words spoken from a man who saw it all, up front and close, and continues to see pool on an international scale today.

[Round of applause.]

JAM

If Efren or Parica had shown up in the 70's in Los Angeles and ran into Keith on a bar table, the filipino invasion may have never happened. :D
 
Let Me Get This Thread Back On Track>>>>

Earrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrl!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Woot Woot!!!
 
For the record, I played Earl three times in tournaments in the 80s and early nineties, and he is very difficult to play against because of his game but also his attitude.

He complained about everything, the pool table, the crowd, not getting the rolls, whatever. I think he should have been fined way back when and not allowed to play until he could show some respect to his opponents.

Why should a player have to put up with his antics?

I played him once, though in North Carolina in 1989 when he was #1 or 2 in the world, and because he didn't know me he was generally pretty nice, especially when he had a 9-2 lead. I ran racks and tied it up. The whole room became interested in our match.

I missed a tough seven and Earl ran out.

Jay Flowers came up to me afterwards and said, "The whole room was rooting for you to beat Earl. He is despised by almost everyone here. You were going to get a standing ovation if you beat him."

I'm surprised he hasn't been sucker-punched yet. Of course, he hasn't retired yet.
 
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