Earl's 5 US Opens vs Shane's 5 US Opens: Who's was more difficult?

TPA is figured during and after the match, not before. So not sure how it could predict the outcome.

Fargo isn't meant to predict anything. It's just a rating that fluctuates based on whether the player performs at, below, or above their rating in conjunction with their opponent's.

We're talking about using these statistics to indicate how well someone plays.
 
Pretty sure Jack didn't have PED's at his disposal like Tiger did. Tiger didn't stay healthy because he started using. C'mon, everybody knows that. Tiger's legacy will always be tainted because of his usage. Much like Barry Bonds.

What did he use? I really have no idea
 
Pretty sure Jack didn't have PED's at his disposal like Tiger did. Tiger didn't stay healthy because he started using. C'mon, everybody knows that. Tiger's legacy will always be tainted because of his usage. Much like Barry Bonds.

Ritalin was available Jack's entire professional career. But you are right, Tiger had a much greater selection to choose from. And I doubt he could take time-released capsules.
 
We're talking about how well a player's TPA for a match indicates how they played in that match.

Is there anywhere that has a players average TPA using all their matches(that are available)? you would think this would give a similar rating to fargo.
Possibly better?
 
We're talking about using these statistics to indicate how well someone plays.

As far as Fargo goes, there are 13 players rated 800 or higher. 10 of them played in the US Open, and 4 of them were in the top 4.

So even though the player with the higher TPA wins the majority of the time, it's only a single match, and not necessarily an accurate representation of how well they play. Take for example Shane's only loss against Chang in the 3rd round. He shot a 762 TPA.

You would agree that's not a proper depiction of how well he plays, right?
 
Is there anywhere that has a players average TPA using all their matches(that are available)? you would think this would give a similar rating to fargo.
Possibly better?

Accu-Stats used to compile and publish a player's overall TPA, at least for an entire tournament.
 
Is there anywhere that has a players average TPA using all their matches(that are available)? you would think this would give a similar rating to fargo.
Possibly better?

I wouldn't think so.

Average TPA for Shane (and other players) would only include the matches he/they played on the stream.

Fargo includes every single match.
 
Here's Earl's path to victory in the 2000 US Open 9-Ball event:

1. Keith Walton 11-8
2. Clint Malicoat 11-6
3. Vincent Marcellino 11-2
4. George SanSouci 11-7
5. Tom Karabatsos 11-4
6. Vegar Kristiansen 11-9
7. Corey Deuel 11-5
8. Jon Kucharo 11-2
9. Takeshi Okumura 11-5
10. Takeshi Okumura 11-5

Total 110-53 (winning percentage 67%)

[Note: This information is from Billiards Digest, Nov. 2000. I do not know whether the list is complete.]

The relevant BD and Pool & Billiard articles for 1997 and 1993 mention only his late matches. In 1997, Earl lost to John Horsfall on the winners' side 7-11, then later beat Horsfall 11-8, then beat Reyes in the final 11-3. In 1993, Earl beat Tony Ellin in the hotseat match 13-5, then beat Ellin again in the final 11-8 (shortened for TV coverage).

Kudos to you
 
Here's Earl's path to victory in the 2000 US Open 9-Ball event:

1. Keith Walton 11-8
2. Clint Malicoat 11-6
3. Vincent Marcellino 11-2
4. George SanSouci 11-7
5. Tom Karabatsos 11-4
6. Vegar Kristiansen 11-9
7. Corey Deuel 11-5
8. Jon Kucharo 11-2
9. Takeshi Okumura 11-5
10. Takeshi Okumura 11-5

Total 110-53 (winning percentage 67%)

[Note: This information is from Billiards Digest, Nov. 2000. I do not know whether the list is complete.]

The relevant BD and Pool & Billiard articles for 1997 and 1993 mention only his late matches. In 1997, Earl lost to John Horsfall on the winners' side 7-11, then later beat Horsfall 11-8, then beat Reyes in the final 11-3. In 1993, Earl beat Tony Ellin in the hotseat match 13-5, then beat Ellin again in the final 11-8 (shortened for TV coverage).
That field does not even come close to the field Shane had to go through this week.
I think Jayson Shaw, CJL and Orcullo would have sliced through that field.
 
Great analysis here! From my perspective, Earl in his prime moved the cue ball better than anyone else, except Parica. Earl was the superior player because of his break. In the more recent era Yang was the best I've seen at making incredible shots to get position for the next shot. He ran racks where everyone else (including Jayson) would be playing safe. Yang ran out when there was no run out there!

No question that Jayson may be the best pure shot maker ever. He pops in long tough shots that most players will play safe on. How about that one he made in his last match against Chang. Incredible. Only Louie Roberts ever made shots like that with regularity. Louie actually cut long shots from extreme angles down the rail better than anyone ever. Lee Vann is the master of these shots today.

For making a tough shot under extreme pressure (like hill-hill) Buddy was the best in his era and Dennis is today. For my money though Wu Chua Ching and Shane are the two best players today. These two have a higher level than anyone else. Once upon a time I said the same thing about Earl. When everyone played their best, Earl was one speed above them all. Twenty years ago!

In terms of pin-point cueball control and layouts with a 20% run-out chance, Dennis Orcollo was superb but it clearly shows his lack of intelligence as a mistake would cost him the rack and possibly the next few during the winner-break format of color of money 2.
That was the reason why Yang massacred Dennis by 18 farking racks.
Yang was obviously the smarter player , he would play safe for anything less than a 80% chance and , take ball in hanf n run out.
Yes , he thrived on his superb shotmaking ability from his practice on 3 inch pockets during the early nineties.

Just my 2 cents
 
SVB was not the player then he is now. That was circa 06-07 when, despite playing really strong, he didn't have the gambling experience he has now. I don't know that it would be possible for a player to make a comeback like that again.

That said, I don't think it's fair to judge Earl harshly by what happened. As I said in my last post, pool greatness is measured by achievements, not failures. If SVB melts down and loses his next finals 11-10 after being up 10-0, missing multiple money balls...does that take away what he did today? I don't think so.

Look at Mika Immonen. He hasn't been very dominant over the last few years, nor the earlier part of the 2000s...he was a top player, but not THE top player. But he caught a gear and hit a few years where he was almost unstoppable. And he gets credit for those years, even if he didn't sustain it across decades. Although we might not have seen the last of him!


Good point !
I think of that time to time.
I think a lot has to do with a pool player's progression from being a pro to settling down getting married n having kids.
Its tough for a family man to as dedicated as he was single.
A good example is Darren Appleton , like mika won the world 10 ball , 9 ball , 2 us open and big money 100 k chinese 8 ball over a span of 2007-2015.
Of a sudden, in a slump n not getting the big money comp he is known for.

Has mike gotten married ?
 
Good point !
I think of that time to time.
I think a lot has to do with a pool player's progression from being a pro to settling down getting married n having kids.
Its tough for a family man to as dedicated as he was single.
A good example is Darren Appleton , like mika won the world 10 ball , 9 ball , 2 us open and big money 100 k chinese 8 ball over a span of 2007-2015.
Of a sudden, in a slump n not getting the big money comp he is known for.

Has mike gotten married ?

I think Appleton's slump is due to Cheqio.
 
Perhaps he wouldn't have choked, but he did lost something like a 20 game lead against Pagulayan years ago didn't he?

Shane lost concentration playing Alex.....because of a female that was with him at that moment....not making excuses, just calling it what it was.
 
Shane lost concentration playing Alex.....because of a female that was with him at that moment....not making excuses, just calling it what it was.

Ya and Chang lost because the wait clearly affected him not making excuses just calling it what it is


1
 
I don't know why you people can't see that Shane's 5 wins out does Earl's by a mile. Here's a few ways to look at it, how many times has Earl entered the US Open vs how many wins....the years he didn't win are called failed attempts. Never before in the history of the US Open has there been a more dominate player than Shane....he has literally DOMINATED the US Open 4 out of the last 5 years....can ANY ONE say Earl DOMINATED the US Open? Yes, he won it 5 times....but couldn't put back to back wins together even once. AND....by the FACT that Shane at the moment has TIED that record....as incredible as that....SHANE himself has set a record that in any of our lifetimes will never be matched let alone be broken....HE WON THE US OPEN 4 TIMES OUT OF 5 ATTEMPTS!!!
 
Back
Top