Earl's Forced Follow Shot
- Thread starter DrCue'sProtege
- Start date
NaturalEnglish
Banned
Do we all agree this shot would be with 10:30 english and a firm hit?
Yes throw is an issue, but due to the higher speed hit the throw is less of a problem..right?
I like the comment regarding backhand English. I have experimented with it...and just cant decide to use it or not. To mix the method of applying English dependent on the shot seems really weird. I dont think I could ever master switching around how I apply English. Best to stick to one method I think.
Yes throw is an issue, but due to the higher speed hit the throw is less of a problem..right?
I like the comment regarding backhand English. I have experimented with it...and just cant decide to use it or not. To mix the method of applying English dependent on the shot seems really weird. I dont think I could ever master switching around how I apply English. Best to stick to one method I think.
It is interesting how we all see these shots differently. I've never had an aiming issue or ball pocketing issue with inside english. I cue the ball parallel to its normal angle, add the needed follow or draw, and it seems (at least for me) no different than any shot.
The thing I am guilty of if I'm not careful is popping these hard force follow shots that have a slighter angle and a greater need of cue ball travel. Of course the result of that is usually no movement on the cue and jawing the pocket to boot.
I need to place my concentration on what I call (don't laugh) my smoothie stroke. I have this whole virtual toolbox of weapons I imagine and use to accomplish certain things. My pea brain needs these things LOL ... This one is the smoothie.
Anyway, I can't use the smoothie unless I'm down low, envision, execute and stay down to watch what I know the result will be.
When I see this video clip and I see the student in what appears to me a more nonchalant upright stance, I can't envision any success with the shot.
The thing I am guilty of if I'm not careful is popping these hard force follow shots that have a slighter angle and a greater need of cue ball travel. Of course the result of that is usually no movement on the cue and jawing the pocket to boot.
I need to place my concentration on what I call (don't laugh) my smoothie stroke.
I have this whole virtual toolbox of weapons I imagine and use to accomplish certain things. My pea brain needs these things LOL ... This one is the smoothie. Anyway, I can't use the smoothie unless I'm down low, envision, execute and stay down to watch what I know the result will be.
When I see this video clip and I see the student in what appears to me a more nonchalant upright stance, I can't envision any success with the shot.
.............
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Earl's giving the guy better tripod support using his fingers. It appears rather than changing to a back of the hand base, he's supporting what the student is most comfortable with.
Bridge height needed for follow is easily obtainable using a palm or side of palm base tripod. Earl is using a palm tripod, he just tucks his middle two under for support. In the end you'll have a need to know several ways of getting your bridge elevated. Shots like over balls etc make it manditory to learn all types of bridges that are solid.
Variations of this shot comes up all the time. For any player especially one pocket and 9 ball its a must know shot. I don't care for a random quantify but if you want to become a good player you need to know this shot. If you ever played bar box with a mud ball you know or you went broke. LOL
I think the problem is most like (see me draw whitey). Over your pool life (for many a long time) you overlooked a valuable way to play position. You forced angles with stun or drew back to poor position etc. If you spend as much time with this shot as you do with wild ass draw shots (lol) you'll learn a valuable asset.
Its not an easy shot it takes concentration, use an elevated bridge, be rock solid over the ball, a little aim compensation and a smooth straight stroke. Another valuable shot is low inside, but that another topic.
So get out there and practice this. Start out with short distances and softer strokes. Work your way up to a firm stroke. Then increase the distance with a slower stroke, then use more power etc. All it takes is practice then you'll have what is a pipe dream for many.
(Short story) Early on I played and gambled with guys my speed. Most times I made a a few bucks but I really didn't know didley about the game. A new guy come in town stationed at the Air Force base. This guy followed whitey around fairly easy. When I got in the same situation I messed up. I took note of what he was doing and started practicing those shots. Its been over 40 years, what a valuable lesson.
Rod
Bridge height needed for follow is easily obtainable using a palm or side of palm base tripod. Earl is using a palm tripod, he just tucks his middle two under for support. In the end you'll have a need to know several ways of getting your bridge elevated. Shots like over balls etc make it manditory to learn all types of bridges that are solid.
Variations of this shot comes up all the time. For any player especially one pocket and 9 ball its a must know shot. I don't care for a random quantify but if you want to become a good player you need to know this shot. If you ever played bar box with a mud ball you know or you went broke. LOL
I think the problem is most like (see me draw whitey). Over your pool life (for many a long time) you overlooked a valuable way to play position. You forced angles with stun or drew back to poor position etc. If you spend as much time with this shot as you do with wild ass draw shots (lol) you'll learn a valuable asset.
Its not an easy shot it takes concentration, use an elevated bridge, be rock solid over the ball, a little aim compensation and a smooth straight stroke. Another valuable shot is low inside, but that another topic.
So get out there and practice this. Start out with short distances and softer strokes. Work your way up to a firm stroke. Then increase the distance with a slower stroke, then use more power etc. All it takes is practice then you'll have what is a pipe dream for many.
(Short story) Early on I played and gambled with guys my speed. Most times I made a a few bucks but I really didn't know didley about the game. A new guy come in town stationed at the Air Force base. This guy followed whitey around fairly easy. When I got in the same situation I messed up. I took note of what he was doing and started practicing those shots. Its been over 40 years, what a valuable lesson.
Rod
NaturalEnglish
Banned
I disagree Earl is a good coach. He should not be teaching some flashy shot until the student has got his fundamentals in shape. The student obviously has a bridge and stance that needs more work. On several occasions Earl says.."see how easy it is?" or brags about something HE does. A good instructor would not do that. Earl is a great player...but instructor?
shot
I had a hard time with that shot and still do .I took
a lesson from Earl a week ago .Yes it's the length of the
bridge and the fluid follow through Earl can put on the ball .
Also the aim is not dead center its more of a throw shot .
If I remember right you hit the cb at about 10to1030 but
so far out on the ball you swear it will miscue .If you practice
that one and get it down it is beautiful and deadly .Earl can do
it everytime .I can do it 2or 3 times out of 10 .Most people
try to force this shot and I think that is why Earl says "see
how easy it is " I think he is right it is eay if you hit it right a
few 1000 times .Earl can teach/coach very well and is very long suffering
at one point during one shot I could not make he looked and me
and I looked at him and we both just busted out laughing .Not too
many shots after that I hit the shot perfect .I think Earl has a much
broader vision into this game than most people do .I know he got
my wheels turning and thinking about shots I have not even thought
about or maybe forgot .
I had a hard time with that shot and still do .I took
a lesson from Earl a week ago .Yes it's the length of the
bridge and the fluid follow through Earl can put on the ball .
Also the aim is not dead center its more of a throw shot .
If I remember right you hit the cb at about 10to1030 but
so far out on the ball you swear it will miscue .If you practice
that one and get it down it is beautiful and deadly .Earl can do
it everytime .I can do it 2or 3 times out of 10 .Most people
try to force this shot and I think that is why Earl says "see
how easy it is " I think he is right it is eay if you hit it right a
few 1000 times .Earl can teach/coach very well and is very long suffering
at one point during one shot I could not make he looked and me
and I looked at him and we both just busted out laughing .Not too
many shots after that I hit the shot perfect .I think Earl has a much
broader vision into this game than most people do .I know he got
my wheels turning and thinking about shots I have not even thought
about or maybe forgot .
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No. He hits this shot (I've watched him and a player that I know slap this ball in 3 different ways) just about 1/4 tip below centre. He doesn't use a draw stroke, though. He kind of "slaps" the ball into the rail, then the inside spin takes it around. He uses a lot of these shots. DJ McGinley, a local player (used to run with Hatch back in his day) around my area, shots a lot of shots like this, and it seems like the guys with the hammer strokes can do this. I use the forementioned 10 o'clock ball with about a half to a full tip of english, but I've learned that "slap" shot as well. It requires a heck of a lot more stroke than the student in the video has.
I hate having to reply to myself! I meant to say follow stroke instead of draw stroke. Earl possesses some shots that humans don't. Massey can do the same thing. I have shot the shot on the video, and the only way I can do it is with the normal slightly high left english.
I think he hits it with follow, for two reasons: (1) the cue ball hits the rail farther down and (2) hitting with draw would work against the goal of getting the ball around the table.
Also, Idon't think there's such a thing as a "draw stroke". If you hit the cue ball below center you get draw and if you hit it above center you get follow.
There's really no trick to hitting this shot. Hit it with inside spin and follow, just like you think you should. The only thing that makes it harder than any shot with sidespin is judging the squirt (cue ball deflection), because this shot has to be hit relatively hard and that means more squirt/deflection than you might be used to (because "swerve" is pretty much eliminated).
pj
chgo
I agree, Patrick. I think the average pool player uses much more draw than follow. Most are not used to hitting with high english, and high inside even less so. The shot comes up a lot when the object ball is closer to the rail. The player wants to go 3 rails using high inside because drawing the CB is much more awkward and difficult.Patrick Johnson said:
When the cueball is several feet away from the OB, the challenge is for the shooter to allow enough side distance for squirt. With a conventional shaft I noticed that it was necessary to allow for as much as a full ball squirt. With a very low deflection shaft, I find that I can aim the cue right at the point I want to contact on the OB, which accomplishes the shot very nicely.
Of course an experienced master player like Earl automatically makes the adjustment without even thinking about it.
Doc
DrCue'sProtege said:
That was the lesson with me!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ml4y67cFpi8
It is half a tip above center with a tip and a half of inside.
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Fleece3 said:
I tried this variations of this shot myself this afternoon using high, inside english. Despite numerous attempts, I wasn't quite able to get the cue ball to consistently go around the table as far as Earl did.
It takes a lot of force and spin to overcome the full hit on the object ball and make whitey dance around the table.
observations
Aside from the (great shot), did anyone else happen to catch the guy climbing up on
the table behind them at about 2:50 into the video?
Right before the verbal war of "Duh, Duh, Duh, Duh..." started.
EDIT: After a couple more viewings it appears he did not actually climb up
completely on the table like I thought he did at first.
Aside from the (great shot), did anyone else happen to catch the guy climbing up on
the table behind them at about 2:50 into the video?
Right before the verbal war of "Duh, Duh, Duh, Duh..." started.
EDIT: After a couple more viewings it appears he did not actually climb up
completely on the table like I thought he did at first.
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PoolSharkAllen said:I tried this variations of this shot myself this afternoon using high, inside english. Despite numerous attempts, I wasn't quite able to get the cue ball to consistently go around the table as far as Earl did.
It takes a lot of force and spin to overcome the full hit on the object ball and make whitey dance around the table.
As Blackjack said, it takes a great stroke...
Man, I love this kind of shot. There's no such thing as a soft stroke for this. Stroke that sucker!
Flex
After watching this shot repetedly for about 5 minutes he hits the cue slightly above center to force the q to the rail and extreme inside carries it around the table.
If hed used top the cue would have lunged forward instead of running in a straight line.
How much does earl charge for lessons?
If hed used top the cue would have lunged forward instead of running in a straight line.
How much does earl charge for lessons?
Pat,Patrick Johnson said:
Thanks for reading my post afterwards that corrected the statement to read "follow stroke".
If you think there is no difference between a draw stroke, a follow stroke, and a stun stroke, then you either don't play much, or don't play well.