Efren Officially is out of WPC

CebuanoNiNoy

CebuanoNiNoy

Pinoy D Player
Silver Member
yap! sad but true. :(
he wins against Davis on his last match 5-4 but David won before
than match also.

Sad day, but i think a day of stepping up the level of play
for other Filipinos and this could only mean good for the Philippine team.
Go Philippines! Go Philippines! :)
 
CebuanoNiNoy said:
yap! sad but true. :(
he wins against Davis on his last match 5-4 but David won before
than match also.

Sad day, but i think a day of stepping up the level of play
for other Filipinos and this could only mean good for the Philippine team.
Go Philippines! Go Philippines! :)
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I never would have bet on Efren not making the top 4 inhis bracket. What led to his demise?
 
Efren ...

Efren must of been on the 'outs' mentally, or perhaps had trouble with the
tables or both. We all know what caliber of player he is ...

Just goes to show you, even the very best players have their bad days too.
 
Definitely the surprise of the tournament to this point. Goes to show even Efren is human....sometimes ;)
 
It's never a sad day when Efren Reyes play pool in front of the fans of the world. All of us who've been lucky enough to follow his career will be able to say that we saw the greatest ever at his craft. Whether he wins or loses, the very presence of Efren at any tournament makes the event so much more special. Of course, we'd like to see him succeed every time he plays, but he'll be back and we're assured many more portions of his unparalleled brilliance over the glorious green felt. That's something to be happy about!
 
I am sorry to say SJM that I will never see Efren as the greatest ever at his craft. He simply did not do enough on the big stage to prove to me that he belong that title over someone like Earl who has won so many major events or Mike Sigel who won some ungodly amount of finals in the 80's (something like over 90% of them he played in he won in pro events). Efren is almost like the Greg Norman of pool, no doubt a gret player but never really proved himself in the majors where it really matters and where you really make a name for yourself. The only thing Efren has going for him is that he was a feared money player for the last 10 years, but that is not something that goes onto paper and can objectively make him the greatest. He is no Tiger Woods, Woods has won a ton of majors already and proved he is the top in those big events. Heck, Pagulayan has done more then Efren already in the big events making it to the finals of the Worlds twice in a row and winning it once.

I have alot of respect for Efren's game, but I dont think he deserves the top pedistal over players with very clearly more successful careers such as Sigel or Earl.
 
Celtic said:
I am sorry to say SJM that I will never see Efren as the greatest ever at his craft. He simply did not do enough on the big stage to prove to me that he belong that title over someone like Earl who has won so many major events or Mike Sigel who won some ungodly amount of finals in the 80's (something like over 90% of them he played in he won in pro events). Efren is almost like the Greg Norman of pool, no doubt a gret player but never really proved himself in the majors where it really matters and where you really make a name for yourself. .
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Obviously, Celtic, I'm only giving my opinion here. Also, I do not consider Efren the best nineballer ever. I'd probably call him sixth, behind Earl Strickland, Mike Sigel, Buddy Hall, Johnny Archer, and Luther Lassiter. Nonetheless, his credentials as an all-around player are, in my opinion, unmatched in our generation.

If pool today has "majors", they are certainly 1) the WPC 9-ball, 2) the US Open 9-ball, 3) the BCA Open 9-Ball, 4) the Derby City Classic 9-ball, 5) the Derby City Classic One-pocket, 6) the World Eight Ball Championship, and 7) the Sands Regency 9-Ball. Efren has captured six of these seven "majors" (all but the BCA Open), as well as the International Challenge of Champions. On top of that, he also has a second and a third place finish in the US Open staight pool championships in 1993 and 2000, respectively. I strongly believe he is the best one-pocket player in the world and the best eight ball player in the world.

Contrary to your suggestion, he has played brilliantly in the big events, showcasing all-around talent that is nothing short of breathtaking. Nonetheless, Efren's place in pool history remains a matter of opinion, and it's always my pleasure to debate the subject with a knowledgeable fan and forum poster like you.

Thanks, Celtic, for sharing your perspective.
 
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How many more titles would Efren have won had he been granted a US visa back in the early 80's?
He had to use Cesar Morales's passport and visa to get here.
What did he do when he got here?
Four US Open finals in a row, world 8-ball titles, dominated the PBT events in the mid 90's, and so on.
 
Up all night gambling again maybe!?

how much gambling on the sides has he been doing in this tournament?
 
Celtic said:
I am sorry to say SJM that I will never see Efren as the greatest ever at his craft. He simply did not do enough on the big stage to prove to me that he belong that title over someone like Earl who has won so many major events or Mike Sigel who won some ungodly amount of finals in the 80's (something like over 90% of them he played in he won in pro events). Efren is almost like the Greg Norman of pool, no doubt a gret player but never really proved himself in the majors where it really matters and where you really make a name for yourself. The only thing Efren has going for him is that he was a feared money player for the last 10 years, but that is not something that goes onto paper and can objectively make him the greatest. He is no Tiger Woods, Woods has won a ton of majors already and proved he is the top in those big events. Heck, Pagulayan has done more then Efren already in the big events making it to the finals of the Worlds twice in a row and winning it once.

I have alot of respect for Efren's game, but I dont think he deserves the top pedistal over players with very clearly more successful careers such as Sigel or Earl.
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Lay off the crack Celtic.
 
So arguably Efren may not be the best 9 ball player but he is the best pool player all around. Like what Celtic said, he is the best 1 pocket player and also I believe the best in 15 ball rotation and those are the games that skills will capitalized and he is arguably the best in 8 ball and he also has won straight pool events and also arguably the most feared money player out there. And also beating Strickland who is the most accomplished 9 ball player in the Color of Money thing make me believe that in the long run, Efren Reyes will come on top against anybody even on his weakest game the 9 ball. And one last thing, he has won a lot of major 9 ball event past his prime and winning it with a soft break which is a big part of the 9 ball game shows his greatness. And on money games, look Dennis Orcullo is a blip in the radar compare to Alex Pagulayan when comparing accomplishment but Alex cannot beat Orcullo in any game when they play money. And I believe if all those major event would have been played in the Philippines, Efren would have won more than any 9 ball player because the way I see it is there are only few players outside who has won in the Philippines. And the most remarkable is Filipinos has won a bunch of them in US and everywhere. So if you look at every angle and and all the type of game, It's undeniable, Efren is the most remarkable player and the greatest pool player ever.
 
sliqueshot said:
So arguably Efren may not be the best 9 ball player but he is the best pool player all around. Like what Celtic said, he is the best 1 pocket player and also I believe the best in 15 ball rotation and those are the games that skills will capitalized and he is arguably the best in 8 ball and he also has won straight pool events and also arguably the most feared money player out there. And also beating Strickland who is the most accomplished 9 ball player in the Color of Money thing make me believe that in the long run, Efren Reyes will come on top against anybody even on his weakest game the 9 ball. And one last thing, he has won a lot of major 9 ball event past his prime and winning it with a soft break which is a big part of the 9 ball game shows his greatness. And on money games, look Dennis Orcullo is a blip in the radar compare to Alex Pagulayan when comparing accomplishment but Alex cannot beat Orcullo in any game when they play money. And I believe if all those major event would have been played in the Philippines, Efren would have won more than any 9 ball player because the way I see it is there are only few players outside who has won in the Philippines. And the most remarkable is Filipinos has won a bunch of them in US and everywhere. So if you look at every angle and and all the type of game, It's undeniable, Efren is the most remarkable player and the greatest pool player ever.
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BRAVO...BRAVO!!!
 
Whatever the verdict is on Reyes' place in history, I think 9 ball is a young man's game and I didn't figure him to do well in this tourney. Yang, Pagulayan, Deuel have a sort of hunger that the older players seem to lack. Now one pocket, that would be a different story...
 
JoeyInCali said:
How many more titles would Efren have won had he been granted a US visa back in the early 80's?
He had to use Cesar Morales's passport and visa to get here.
What did he do when he got here?
Four US Open finals in a row, world 8-ball titles, dominated the PBT events in the mid 90's, and so on.
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To add on: several straight pool titles, played world class billiards/3 cushion, bank pool, etc.

Just as Grady and Incardona said: Efren is the best because of his overall skills in being able to play in a worldclass level, not just one, but almost all of the various pool discipline.

IMHO: Efren was not lucky enough to have his A- game.........every player has that day.

Pinoy...WinOrLose, always an efren fan
:D
 
Efren isn't on my list of top nineballers, nineball actually seems to be one of his weaker games. But for all around ability in ALL games (I include snooker) Efren has to be considered the greatest of all time. If there is somebody better I'd like to hear a name.
 
sniper said:
Efren isn't on my list of top nineballers, nineball actually seems to be one of his weaker games. But for all around ability in ALL games (I include snooker) Efren has to be considered the greatest of all time. If there is somebody better I'd like to hear a name.
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Though he's not better than Efren, I think Nick Varner merits some attention here as the only player I know of that has won the World championship in each of straight pool, nine ball, eight ball and one pocket. Nick's name is unfairly overlookied in many a discussion of the best ever.

Realistically, in the modern era, the only name that can reasonably considered alongside Efren's is Mike Sigel, and Thorsten Hohmann has a chance to be the next Sigel. He's already the best straight pooler. I believe his performance in the recent European Straight Pool Championships was the most impressive performance in straight pool since Sigel retired. Several of the old masters who watched him at the 2004 NJ Straight Pool Championships said he played some of the best straight pool they had ever seen. I'd have to give Thorsten Hohmann an edge over America's top two straight poolers, John Schmidt and Tony Robles, both of whom run balls like crazy. Whether Thorsten will emerge as the best nineballer one day remains to be seen, but it might just happen.
 
Players ..

I must admit I have also been impressed with Hohmann's playing.
He has an all around solid game that is very hard to beat. I think
he will be winning tournaments for quite some time.

Not quite there, but impressive too, is Thomas Engert. He has
potential to be a top contender for years to come.
 
Celtic said:
I am sorry to say SJM that I will never see Efren as the greatest ever at his craft. He simply did not do enough on the big stage to prove to me that he belong that title over someone like Earl who has won so many major events or Mike Sigel who won some ungodly amount of finals in the 80's (something like over 90% of them he played in he won in pro events). Efren is almost like the Greg Norman of pool, no doubt a gret player but never really proved himself in the majors where it really matters and where you really make a name for yourself. The only thing Efren has going for him is that he was a feared money player for the last 10 years, but that is not something that goes onto paper and can objectively make him the greatest. He is no Tiger Woods, Woods has won a ton of majors already and proved he is the top in those big events. Heck, Pagulayan has done more then Efren already in the big events making it to the finals of the Worlds twice in a row and winning it once.

I have alot of respect for Efren's game, but I dont think he deserves the top pedistal over players with very clearly more successful careers such as Sigel or Earl.
Click to expand...

For someone who never really proved himself in majors......hasn't he won 4 world 8ball titles? Efren may not be a Tiger Woods.......but Tiger Woods is no Jack Nicklaus. Iverson is no Jordan, etc etc. I don't think Efren is the best 9-ball player in the world. However i think Earl might be one of the best 9-ball players ever and for him to call Efren the best, thats good enough for me.
 
Celtic said:
I am sorry to say SJM that I will never see Efren as the greatest ever at his craft. He simply did not do enough on the big stage to prove to me that he belong that title over someone like Earl....
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Efren has not proven himself in the big stage???? ... maybe somebody is a bit misinformed... Efren already has won all the majors in 9-ball(w/c is probably his weakest pool game) including WPC.. but he is way above the rest in the more difficult game of pool like.. 8-ball(4-World Championship and the reigning champion), 1-pocket, and if you care to include the even more difficult game of Rotation... I knew of only 1 or 2-players who would dare to play even with Efren in Rotation... he play snooker too... Asian Games gold medalist.. Efren can play every game of pool at the highest level... and he has the World Championships to prove it...
 
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