Efren never had a weak break per say, but he always used a break in the 18-20mph range or a cut break. While that is acceptable and can even be used at the highest levels in 9 ball because it is easy to make a ball on the break even with a soft break, I don't think that will cut it in 10 ball where dry breaks are a real issue and your opponent is breaking and running every other rack. You mention rotation, but in rotation there is very little advantage for the breaker because it is so difficult to get out.
Efren Reyes in the 1990s vs Current SVB
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Efren never had a weak break per say, but he always used a break in the 18-20mph range or a cut break. While that is acceptable and can even be used at the highest levels in 9 ball because it is easy to make a ball on the break even with a soft break, I don't think that will cut it in 10 ball where dry breaks are a real issue and your opponent is breaking and running every other rack. You mention rotation, but in rotation there is very little advantage for the breaker because it is so difficult to get out.
It's hard to dump a match when you barely get to play. Efren opened with a 2 pack, then Buddy hit him back with a 6 pack. They were playing 10 ahead and Buddy went on to end it very quickly. It's in his book which I have, I do however agree that one match doesn't mean everything but as I am sure you know, Buddy shot everyone on the whole planet down for a good amount of time for the money. Shane's not even doing that right now.... So to think he could beat Efren, Earl or Buddy in a long race playing 10 ball in their prime is just really unlikely.
believe me I know how good Shane plays but he still is yet to beat Orcullo for the money and Busty has a winning record as well. The only advantage he has on almost everyone is the break. I think even now if Alex put in the time and work Shane puts in, Shane would get wrecked. However Alex doesn't practice as much as he should... everyone knows that.
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Very good post David!! I am in total agreement that Reyes is the best all around player who ever lived. The things that man can do on a pool table are nothing short of stunning!! Shane is an amazing player and it's quite obvious, at least to me that he is the most consistant american player we have. The guy just wins everything
. Comparing him to Reyes is not something I would like to tackle, but I loved your analogy of it... Strickland had a big time high gear as a young man also and he played jam up on tight pockets.. The really tight pockets is something that has showed up in the last few years unless I am wrong. I remember playing in Reno in a tournament at the Sands Hotel in the early 90's and the pockets were quite gapping. You just don't see that anymore. I don't like to play 9 or 10 ball on tight 4 inch pkts but 41/4 is ok with me......
6 pack? Is that good?!!?
And I have not read Rifleman...I want to though!
Are you a library?
And you would have company. The man is damn near 60, has probably lost 2-3 balls of speed since his prime, yet nobody would be surprised if he snapped off a major tournament tomorrow, whether it be 9-ball, 10-ball, one-pocket, or whatever.
Efren was over 50 when I recall people saying (with incredulity) that Corey was playing him EVEN one pocket. They were amazed that Corey (one of the most talented players to ever walk the face of the Earth, and 23 years Efren's junior) was not getting any weight. Folks, what Shane does is sick, no doubt, but there's sick and then there's UTTERLY F'ING SICK.
Aaron
I think its just like boxing ,styles make fights.I know that people always say
''don't worry about who your playing'' but when it comes to Efren,that might not be so easy.I'm not a big Efren fan but if they matched up for the big dough even now,I think Efren has got a great chance to win.Shane plays wonderful but Efren is on his own pool plateau.For the big cash and a long race I would have to side with experience and take Efren but Shane could still win,it would be a battle!
''don't worry about who your playing'' but when it comes to Efren,that might not be so easy.I'm not a big Efren fan but if they matched up for the big dough even now,I think Efren has got a great chance to win.Shane plays wonderful but Efren is on his own pool plateau.For the big cash and a long race I would have to side with experience and take Efren but Shane could still win,it would be a battle!
The table they played on had very tight pockets. In fact, Shane bobbled a lot more balls on that table than Earl did
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say what you'd like...
But really If hypatheticals were actuals, I'd let anybody put the kid up against Efren in the 90's... I love the kid's game, he's great to watch. But he doesn't have near the knowledge, control and understanding of cue ball control, kicking, safety, ball interactions, spin transfer etc...
Efren has such a strong all around understanding of all cue sports. Shane really is quite young and by the time Efren was his age I'm sure he was starting to play world class caroms as well as rotation. Eventually he learned one pocket and we all know how much the world hated that!
That being said, Shane is one of the best rotation players in the world. I'm sure he'd be competitive with Efren in these games... but as we divert from that discipline the level disparity becomes more aparent and we see why Efren is the greatest...
All the best.
Sincerely,
Raymond Linares
But really If hypatheticals were actuals, I'd let anybody put the kid up against Efren in the 90's... I love the kid's game, he's great to watch. But he doesn't have near the knowledge, control and understanding of cue ball control, kicking, safety, ball interactions, spin transfer etc...
Efren has such a strong all around understanding of all cue sports. Shane really is quite young and by the time Efren was his age I'm sure he was starting to play world class caroms as well as rotation. Eventually he learned one pocket and we all know how much the world hated that!
That being said, Shane is one of the best rotation players in the world. I'm sure he'd be competitive with Efren in these games... but as we divert from that discipline the level disparity becomes more aparent and we see why Efren is the greatest...
All the best.
Sincerely,
Raymond Linares
I don't think I've ever read or heard the words "Efren", "fan", and "not" used in the same sentence. I had to read that sentence multiple times before I realized that's actually what you meant. Nothing wrong with that, just caught me off guard...lol.
When reading the Accu Stat 1000 rating? thread last night, cmbwsu linked to a few 9-ball tournaments where Efren had played great. In the 1999 World Pool Championships, Efren runs an 8-pack on Bustamante. Listening to the commentary, they mentioned that earlier in the tournament, Efren had run an 8-pack on Souquet! How strong is that? Two 8-packs in the same tournament! Efren went on to win the tournament!
Watching the Efren vs. Kunihko match, Efren runs a 5-pack right off the bat! Kunihko gets 2 innings the entire match I think! I don't think anyone had to win against the Efren of old!
Watching the Efren vs. Kunihko match, Efren runs a 5-pack right off the bat! Kunihko gets 2 innings the entire match I think! I don't think anyone had to win against the Efren of old!
Yes, and now that you think about it that may have been my point.
Tap, Tap, Tap!!
My opinion don't mean shizzle, but it is stated above. And very eloquently, may I add!
Braden
shane/efren
The tighten the pockets the better efren would play. the tighter the pockets hurts shanes game big time, cause his only strenght against efren, busty (a little) and yang etc is his break they all play better after the balls are broke and all pocket better on tigher equipment
The tighten the pockets the better efren would play. the tighter the pockets hurts shanes game big time, cause his only strenght against efren, busty (a little) and yang etc is his break they all play better after the balls are broke and all pocket better on tigher equipment
I thought you were saying that SVB would beat Earl on a 10 foot table with tight pockets, but the table they played on had tight pockets. So, I'm confused
It's just like another common topic I have with other people...Who's better, Jordan in his prime or Kobe in his...and if you look at it, almost every new up and coming star is then compared to Jordan as if his career, physical talent and mental toughness is the standard that all basketball players should reach in order to become the perfect all around player. Why the comparisons? Because no one has seen anything like Jordan SINCE Jordan. Does that mean we have reached our " human limit " in the world of basketball? No of course not, we just have YET to come across another " Jordan " who will change the game. In the mean time there WILL be other GREAT players who come along such as Kobe, Kevin Durant, Lebron James and who ever else the future holds..but in the meantime the person who keeps the bar up a notch above the rest will still be the blueprint by which most basketball players will want to pattern their game after..namely Air Jordan. SO Back to pool, it's the same game here. We have yet to see a guy in the pool world that has changed it so much that we all try to emulate everything he does on the cloth, from the shot choices he makes to immitating his stroke as best as we can in HOPES that we can acheive that kind of dominance on a table as he had all these years. Shane is a great player, BUT he hasn't changed the game for me or most pool players as much as Efren has. What shane does on a pool table I've seen from The Pearl time and time again. Shane still has many more miles left in him and it will be exciting to see what's in store as the years go by.
10 Ball is a joke compared to Rotation
Let's see SVB beat Efren in rotation 15 balls?
Who wants to bet against Efren.
Not me, not today, not ever.
Efren's rotation stories are true !!!!!
Efren grew up playing rotation.
There is no doubt Efren is the best in his pool player ever.
Let's see SVB beat Efren in rotation 15 balls?
Who wants to bet against Efren.
Not me, not today, not ever.
Efren's rotation stories are true !!!!!
Efren grew up playing rotation.
There is no doubt Efren is the best in his pool player ever.
Question is was the 90's really Efren's prime?