scorpionjohnny
Registered
who would win?
in:
one pocket
8 ball
9 ball
rotation
straight pool
carom
etc...
in:
one pocket
8 ball
9 ball
rotation
straight pool
carom
etc...
efren reyes vs mike sigel
- Thread starter scorpionjohnny
- Start date
one pocket - efren
8 ball - efren
9 ball - mike or efren(so much luck in this game)
rotation - efren
straight pool - mike
carom - efren
8 ball - efren
9 ball - mike or efren(so much luck in this game)
rotation - efren
straight pool - mike
carom - efren
scorpionjohnny said:
Both of these guys are getting old and are far past their prime.Segal was quoted as saying something simuliar to these words"Once your 35 in pool, your over the hill.Efren has been heard saying,"I'm about 1/10th as good as I used to be."Having said that, they are(or could be) still probably amongst the best in the world, even now.
I'd have to say Efren in Rotation(grew up with it in the Phillipines), One pocket(recent winner at the Derby),8ball( 2 or 3 time world champ) and carom(efren's been known to have played it, has Segal???).
Nine ball a toss up, however, because Efrens still playing it competivley, I'd have to say Efren there as well.
Mike Segal in straight pool.This guy has forgotten more about straight pool more than most will ever know.
RJ
Now if both were under 30 and in there prime.................
Sigel wins straight-pool in his prime.
9-ball too probably ( Efren beat 5 in a row before he retired iirc ).
8-ball, rotation and carom go to Efren.
9-ball too probably ( Efren beat 5 in a row before he retired iirc ).
8-ball, rotation and carom go to Efren.
If we are talking about both of them when they are playing their best...
I think 9-ball is a toss up, so is 8-ball. Rotation is definately Efren, Caroms definately Efren, straight pool is definately Sigel. One-pocket Efren is the master of. Banks I think Efren for sure.
I think 9-ball is a toss up, so is 8-ball. Rotation is definately Efren, Caroms definately Efren, straight pool is definately Sigel. One-pocket Efren is the master of. Banks I think Efren for sure.
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.Segal was quoted as saying something simuliar to these words"Once your 35 in pool, your over the hill.
Guess guys like Irving Crane, Buddy Hall, and Nick Varner proved that wrong, eh? Nick Varner started peaking at 38, and has won a World Championship in EVERY discipline of "pocket" billiards.
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Guess guys like Irving Crane, Buddy Hall, and Nick Varner proved that wrong, eh? Nick Varner started peaking at 38, and has won a World Championship in EVERY discipline of "pocket" billiards.
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mark tadd said:id say that was a great guess but definetly been proven wrong. im almost 40 and i may decide to try to prove it wrong again
Mark, If I had your talent I would devote every waking minute to becoming a World Champion. If you have to gamble to make some ends meat..do it..but I would focus more on the tournament trail. Think "long term". Cue endorsements, table endorsements, heck, perhaps having someone back your own line of cues (ala Scorpion, Nick Varner cues, etc.). To be successful you have to be like Varner, Sigel, Archer.....you have to set yourself up. Win the big tournaments and then make a "business" out of your name. I've heard the Nick and Sigel are millionaire's from the successful businesses they've created or had using their names. Of course Mizerak is probably THE most successful pool player ever "money" wise. Mosconi probably did "ok" but he was on Brunswick's payroll his entire life. Earl has been sponsored by Cuetec for a LONG time and probably makes good money from them. He has "stuck" with them so long he will always have a career with them even if he got out of pool. In essence, you have to be a businessman and a great player. Not everyone can do it. Gambling might be some fast money, but as you yourself know it is easy come, easy go. I wish you the best in staging a comeback but you've got to be dedicated. Can't do it posting on AZBilliards(and I don't mean that as an insult). Best of luck.
F
Fred Agnir
Guest
LastTwo said:
The other way around. In the 80's and early 90's, Efren had the habit of making it to finals or semifinal matches and lose to Sigel (or whomever else was in the finals). Sigel something over 75% (or something even higher) of all his finals matches, whereas Efren never seemed to win more than a handful in ten years.
9-ball - If it's prime vs. prime, Sigel already beat Efren when both were in their prime in 9-ball, so, IMO, that's put to bed.
14.1 - Sigel. Not even close
one-pocket - Efren, but Sigel in his later years when he had pretty much retired also won a major one-pocket event. So, it's not that far apart, prime vs. prime.
8-ball - both have world championships. In Sigel's prime, he simply was the best player on the planet. 8-ball was an easy game for him as well.
Rotation - Efren. I doubt Sigel paid much attention to Rotation.
I feel sorry for the people who got into pool after Sigel got bored with it. He was *that* good. Efren is easily the best all-around player, but he didn't have the fire power that Sigel had. Sigel was the best offensive player, as well as being the best defensive player. And he seemed to have the most luck going his way. And because of that, he always made the right decision since he had both offense and defense to work with. We'e talking about a guy who dominated his era, an era filled with hall-of-fame legends who were in their prime
Fred
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scorpionjohnny
Registered
my opinion differs...Fred Agnir said:
in 9 ball...first, it doesnt mean that if you beat someone you're already better than that person, because when they were both in their prime, the both of them beat each other a lot, and between two super players... basically its luck and the conditioning will really matter.
in the case of one pocket... even if sigel won a championship, efren is already in the one pocket hall of fame even if he started learning the game at the age of 40+.
In 8 ball... efren is the world's best player right now even if he is 50+ right now...
straight pool... hands down sigel
rotation and carom... hands down efren
F
Fred Agnir
Guest
scorpionjohnny said:
Maybe you misunderstood. I didn't mean to say that Sigel beat Reyes one time here and there. Sigel was beating everyone's brains in from the late 70's until late 80's. Sigel in his prime was clearly better than everyone else on the planet. That included Efren Reyes. Reyes did not beat Sigel a lot, but Sigel certainly beat Reyes a lot. Understand? It wasn't as close as people are saying. Efren didn't start a winning streak in 9-ball until early 90's. And, IMO, one reason for that is because Sigel was already bored with pool.
As great as Efren was in the 80's, he wasn't even considered the second best 9-ball player at that time. Buddy Hall would have that distinction, along with Earl and Nick.
Fred
Pocket billiards
8-ball (Prime Sigel has the edge by a fair margin due to a far better break)
9-ball (Sigel already proved himself in this, Efren did not rise to greatness until Sigel quit and stopped beating him and everyone else)
Straight pool (Sigel was the best straight pool player in the modern era, he would crush Efren)
One Pocket (Reyes takes this by a small margin, anyone who has to spot Joyner and then still beats him is not someone Sigel wants to play in a game he only dabbled in)
Rotation (Reyes wins this by default, it is possible Sigel has never shot a rack of rotation)
This is the way it is. Sigel had a far better break then Reyes and had ALL the shotmaking and shape playing ability. He proved he was better in 9-ball, anyone who says otherwise is just ignoring the past match-ups. The break is important in 8-ball, and straight pool skill lends itself well to 8-ball, Sigel would run rack after rack and Reyes would lose to his weaker (not weak, only alot weaker then Sigel) break not giving him as many chances. Straight pool is a no brainer, Sigel is the best straight pool player of the modern era and possibly the best since Mosconi.
Reyes takes the two specialized gambling games. One pocket is for sure his, there are some great one pocket players out there that wont take 9-6 from him. Joyner looses with a spot, that is sick. Rotation is Reyes as well, much like Straight pool is Mike's domain rotation is a game Efren knows well and Sigel never played the game as far as anyone knows.
That is the way I would bet, if I took $500 and bet the above on the outcome of each match I am pretty sure I would come out $2500 winner as long as the races were sufficiently long.
8-ball (Prime Sigel has the edge by a fair margin due to a far better break)
9-ball (Sigel already proved himself in this, Efren did not rise to greatness until Sigel quit and stopped beating him and everyone else)
Straight pool (Sigel was the best straight pool player in the modern era, he would crush Efren)
One Pocket (Reyes takes this by a small margin, anyone who has to spot Joyner and then still beats him is not someone Sigel wants to play in a game he only dabbled in)
Rotation (Reyes wins this by default, it is possible Sigel has never shot a rack of rotation)
This is the way it is. Sigel had a far better break then Reyes and had ALL the shotmaking and shape playing ability. He proved he was better in 9-ball, anyone who says otherwise is just ignoring the past match-ups. The break is important in 8-ball, and straight pool skill lends itself well to 8-ball, Sigel would run rack after rack and Reyes would lose to his weaker (not weak, only alot weaker then Sigel) break not giving him as many chances. Straight pool is a no brainer, Sigel is the best straight pool player of the modern era and possibly the best since Mosconi.
Reyes takes the two specialized gambling games. One pocket is for sure his, there are some great one pocket players out there that wont take 9-6 from him. Joyner looses with a spot, that is sick. Rotation is Reyes as well, much like Straight pool is Mike's domain rotation is a game Efren knows well and Sigel never played the game as far as anyone knows.
That is the way I would bet, if I took $500 and bet the above on the outcome of each match I am pretty sure I would come out $2500 winner as long as the races were sufficiently long.
Voodoo Daddy
One Pocket 101
one pocket<~~Efren, hands down. Hopkins called him the smartest player he ever played against.
8 ball<~~~toss up here, the edge goes to Efren
9 ball<~~~Sigels break is dominate here and the game is 1/3 break as long as they dont use the Sour-Dough rack...Pick 'em
rotation<~~~Efren has the large edge here...its his best game
straight pool<~~~Sigel...tons of 150-n-outs to his credit, its his strong suit
carom<~~~Efren may have this edge too, he did quit 3-C to play pocket billiards but Sigel may have some unknown gift there coming from the era of more well rounded players.
8 ball<~~~toss up here, the edge goes to Efren
9 ball<~~~Sigels break is dominate here and the game is 1/3 break as long as they dont use the Sour-Dough rack...Pick 'em
rotation<~~~Efren has the large edge here...its his best game
straight pool<~~~Sigel...tons of 150-n-outs to his credit, its his strong suit
carom<~~~Efren may have this edge too, he did quit 3-C to play pocket billiards but Sigel may have some unknown gift there coming from the era of more well rounded players.