Efren Reyes - Would you do this for the cash?

Hey, I'm basically a newbie to one pocket. So...can someone tell me what other shot would be a 'standard safe' shot?

Thanks in advance,
Rick
 
ENGLISH! said:
Hey, I'm basically a newbie to one pocket. So...can someone tell me what other shot would be a 'standard safe' shot?

Thanks in advance,
Rick
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The safety with two spotted balls is to shoot across the head ball going to the side rail and rest the cue ball on the end rail leaving the two balls near the spot. But the truth is if you do not have the stroke and skill to shoot the shot like Efren and leaving the head ball near your pocket with the second going two rails and ending up near your pocket you may not be ready for one-pocket yet. As the books will tell you, if you arte not proficient in some other game don't start one-pocket as you will only become frustrated. This is not an insult, just advice.
 
This AZ forum is something else

I have learned that Efren has a poor end game
That he could not play his own money and all kinds of things

I once asked Billy Incardone about this shot and he said he would shoot it for big money
I have shot it and my speed is slow

If someone wanted to match up and jump straight to the end game
I am sure Efren would not need to play his own money
 
spktur said:
The safety with two spotted balls is to shoot across the head ball going to the side rail and rest the cue ball on the end rail leaving the two balls near the spot. But the truth is if you do not have the stroke and skill to shoot the shot like Efren and leaving the head ball near your pocket with the second going two rails and ending up near your pocket you may not be ready for one-pocket yet. As the books will tell you, if you arte not proficient in some other game don't start one-pocket as you will only become frustrated. This is not an insult, just advice.
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Thank you for your replay. I've been playing mostly 8 ball for nearly 5 decades. I was introduced to 1 pocket by an elderly gentleman when I was 13. I just never really played it until just a few months ago. I've made both the back ball bank & the front ball on separate occasions & to me that is the shot depending on the CB location if there is no BIH.

I just don't know many of the prescribed safeties & hence I don't always do what is expected. Sometimes it costs me but most of the times my way works well enough.

Thanks again for your replay.
Rick
 
As others have said, this is a very old shot that has been around forever. I doubt that there is a 1pocket player of any experience that hasn't shot it. In fact, before opening up the link, I thought the discussion would be about the slightly more exotic Cliff Joyner shot, were the back ball is banked two rails, the first ball is pushed towards the shooter's side rail, and the CB goes three rails for a long and safe position.

IMO, this shot is not so bad, even needing one because, if shot properly, worse case, the CB draws back to a pretty safe position and both balls will be near the shooter's pocket.

Technically, yes, it is wrong to put both balls into play down table needing one. However, like every other rule there are exceptions and one of those is when you are a big favorite to leave both balls near your hole and the CB at the far end. If nothing else it complicates your opponent's defensive reply. In addition, I believe that this is one of those shots in which a player not only judges the shot and score, he's also weighing: who he is playing, how the set has gone, how clean the balls and cloth are, what size the pockets are, and last but not least -- am I Efren Reyes.

IOW, some of the normal rules for us mortals do not apply to Efren. He can shoot the shot, even against a high caliber player like Richie, and probably still feel pretty good about out moving and shooting him. To a lesser extent, we all must also make those kind of judgements and not blindly adhere to all the usual tenets and realize there are exceptions to the rules that can shift the odds in our favor.

Lou Figueroa
 
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ENGLISH! said:
Like I said, I'm just starting to play one pocket a bit over the past few months.

So, I'm interested. What safety would you play?

Thanks in advance,
Rick
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If I needed 1 ball and my opponent needed 2 balls I would play this safety:


Table Layout Diagram BilliardsTheGame.jpg
 
deanoc said:
This AZ forum is something else

I have learned that Efren has a poor end game
That he could not play his own money and all kinds of things

I once asked Billy Incardone about this shot and he said he would shoot it for big money
I have shot it and my speed is slow

If someone wanted to match up and jump straight to the end game
I am sure Efren would not need to play his own money
Click to expand...

The percentages of the shot don't change because of the shooter's speed (you can play the safety and play your opponent 1-2).

Here's what else Cardone says about the shot:
wincardona said:
Allow me to give you my prospective on this clouded decision.

I believe that the skills of the players are of great importance when confronted with this decision.

I am going to group all players into four groups, A-B-C-D-

Lets say that there are only two balls left and the player at the table with ball in hand behind the head string needs only one. If two top players A or B group are playing I would go for the offensive shot every time. My reasoning for this is two fold. One reason is that top players will hit this shot more accurately than weaker players and will get much better results. Two, when top players are playing oneanother and this situation developes it is easier for the player needing both balls to win, because of his offensive skills. This does not apply to an A or B player playing C and D players, if that's the situation I would play the more conservative shot and win by outmoving my opponent with my superior skills.

If C and D players are playing oneanother I would play the more conservative shot, because balls are worth more to C and D players and a lead of 1 ball is much stronger.

If a C or D player is playing a top player and the C or D player needs both balls I would recommend shooting the offensive shot. I would't want a C or D player shooting that shot if he was playing me.

Billy I.
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Old Nine Baller said:
This is another example of Efren's weak endgame. The safety is in order here when you need 1 ball.
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I don't disagree with you, as in my opinion, needing 1 ball... this is the wrong shot.

When a player doesn't bet his own money, like Efren, he can shoot shots like this.

ONB
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I have to put realism around this. Efren for sure has played for his own money "for his livelihood" in a way that you ( and I mean YOU) could never understand. Don't go there.
 
Nine Baller,

Thank you much for the time & effort of your reply.

As I said. I've hardly played any 1 pocket.

That said, I'd rather shoot the shot as it gives me a chance to make it & win, it puts it near my pocket if I miss it & the cue ball is up table & the banking ball might double up the ball near my pocket making it more difficult to move it.

I see more positives in shooting the shot. If your safety is hit a bit off it could leave a back cut across corner bank for the opponent.

I know I'm probably wrong, & probably after some more time playing 1 pocket, I probably will see it more your way.

Thanks again for your time & effort. I do appreciate it.
Rick
 
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ENGLISH! said:
Nine Baller,

Thank you much for the time & effort of your reply.

As I said. I've hardly played any 1 pocket.

That said, I'd rather shoot the shot as it gives me a chance to make it & win, it puts it near my pocket if I miss it & the cue ball is up table & the banking ball might double up the ball near my pocket making it more difficult to move it.

I see more positives in shooting the shot. If your safety is hit a bit off it could leave a back cut across corner bank for the opponent.

I know I'm probably wrong, & probably after some more time playing 1 pocket, I probably will see it more your way.

Thanks again for your time & effort. I do appreciate it.
Rick
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Rick,

Think about it like this; The shot you propose is at least 5 times more difficult than the safety I showed. Which one offers you the better percentages?

No big deal either way, as you say, you'll learn as times goes on. Good luck to you.

ONB
 
For what it's worth I don't shoot this shot if I need one but I'm not efren either. I play the cue ball to bottom rail safe.
 
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BeiberLvr said:
If I'm Efren's backer, then I want him shooting the shot he's most comfortable with, even if it's not the textbook shot.

Overall, I'm sure all of the people that have ever backed Efren aren't complaining about the decisions he makes.
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If I'm staking efren I ain't telling him what to shoot ever lol. I mean christ at one time he was 9/7 better than the planet. Best of all time in one pocket, how could I second guess that resume.
 
Cornerman said:
I have to put realism around this. Efren for sure has played for his own money "for his livelihood" in a way that you ( and I mean YOU) could never understand. Don't go there.
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Old Nine Baller said:
Efren hasn't bet his own in 30 years. Go lay that crap down on someone else.

ONB
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sydbarret said:
What does that have to do with this thread? That's the second time you had to mention that while taking a cheap shot. Grumpy old nine baller would be a handle better suited for you.
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What does it have to do with this thread? Ask "Cornerman", he mentioned it the second time.

Efren don't bet his own, don't blame me for pointing it out.

ONB
 
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