Eliminating / minimizing english has helped my game

Shermanscs

Shermanscs

Steve sherman
Silver Member
Over time, there have been a number of some very good pool players that I respect who have observed my game suggest to me that I try as much as possible to eliminate english and to instead use natural angles, speed and high, middle & low cueing to derive position. There is nothing more poetic to me than to see a player who really can really put a stroke on the ball and juice it around the table to get position. However, trying to emulate this and work it into my game has been very difficult to master and in fact, has been something that has proven difficult to be consistent with.

I had recently purchased a DVD set (I won't mention which one because I don't want this post to be mistaken for cheap advertising of the instructional material), whereby the instructor provided the same advice about eliminating english and who dedicated the instructional material to exhibiting how to derive position with angles, speed and high, center & low positioning.

I have begun to ween myself off english and have been incorporating these techniques into my game and thus far it is yielding very positive results. Of course, there are always times when english is neccessary, but it is clear to me that I have been over using it. It is surprising, but I have been more consistent in achieving position and pocketing balls.

I am going to keep working at it, but so far, I must say that I am convinced this is a good thing.

Thoughts?
- Steve
 
Everyone has their own style of play.

I believe if you play inside the cue ball it's a better way to play. You can generate all the spin you need staying inside and can keep your core under control.
You must also know how to use the edges and master it.

Good luck with your change, I would not even think about eliminating English I would stay inside the cue ball and learn how to contain it, let them work together as a team when needed.

A master is just that, a master. The complete player can do it all.

Sincerely:SS
 
Shermanscs said:
Over time, there have been a number of some very good pool players that I respect who have observed my game suggest to me that I try as much as possible to eliminate english and to instead use natural angles, speed and high, middle & low cueing to derive position. There is nothing more poetic to me than to see a player who really can really put a stroke on the ball and juice it around the table to get position. However, trying to emulate this and work it into my game has been very difficult to master and in fact, has been something that has proven difficult to be consistent with.

I had recently purchased a DVD set (I won't mention which one because I don't want this post to be mistaken for cheap advertising of the instructional material), whereby the instructor provided the same advice about eliminating english and who dedicated the instructional material to exhibiting how to derive position with angles, speed and high, center & low positioning.

I have begun to ween myself off english and have been incorporating these techniques into my game and thus far it is yielding very positive results. Of course, there are always times when english is neccessary, but it is clear to me that I have been over using it. It is surprising, but I have been more consistent in achieving position and pocketing balls.

I am going to keep working at it, but so far, I must say that I am convinced this is a good thing.

Thoughts?
- Steve
Click to expand...

In the past, I've heard the same thing from a few sources, but rarely do they stick to it and I don't think it's good advice over the long run.

What finally eased my doubt about the use of English is during a playing lesson from Dennis Orcullo. Almost every time we discussed a shot, it involved some English. Seems like all I heard from him was "use left, use right". In fact, I don't know any good player who doesn't use English and use it often at that. All good players use it but some players juice it up more than others. The difference is: they've mastered the execution. You can't master it if you don't use it. The difficulty English presents is the amount of spin affects your aim point. Improving your stroke speed control and maintaining a tight center area on the cue ball are key to reducing misses due to misjudging the effects of spin.

As I've improved over time I rarely juice the ball up. I use a half tip usually and if I really need spin, a full tip, but that's about as far from center as I want to go. I can control these shots. If the shot requires more than that, I'll probably play a safety. The exception is some specialty throw shots that require a lot of juice. On the other hand, many basic position shots are just not possible with stun, draw and follow alone.

My suggestion about English is: master it, know when to use it and like all good things, use it in moderation. If you want to watch a player who uses minimal English but uses it extremely well, watch videos of Alex Pagulayan. He is as close to a pure center ball top pro as I've seen. Then you have the other end of the spectrum, Shane, Efren and Bustamante, who use a lot of juice to get around the table.
 
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Eliminating English

Shermanscs said:
Over time, there have been a number of some very good pool players that I respect who have observed my game suggest to me that I try as much as possible to eliminate english and to instead use natural angles, speed and high, middle & low cueing to derive position. There is nothing more poetic to me than to see a player who really can really put a stroke on the ball and juice it around the table to get position. However, trying to emulate this and work it into my game has been very difficult to master and in fact, has been something that has proven difficult to be consistent with.

I had recently purchased a DVD set (I won't mention which one because I don't want this post to be mistaken for cheap advertising of the instructional material), whereby the instructor provided the same advice about eliminating english and who dedicated the instructional material to exhibiting how to derive position with angles, speed and high, center & low positioning.

I have begun to ween myself off english and have been incorporating these techniques into my game and thus far it is yielding very positive results. Of course, there are always times when english is neccessary, but it is clear to me that I have been over using it. It is surprising, but I have been more consistent in achieving position and pocketing balls.

I am going to keep working at it, but so far, I must say that I am convinced this is a good thing.

Thoughts?
- Steve
Click to expand...

Having a player eliminate English from his game is something that is done for the player at the onset of learning pool. In reality when you are able to take something away from using just Top, Bottom and Center then you are ready to begin to learn how to apply English spin in your game.

Learning to make shots is the first part and that will be ongoing for some time.

Learning moves with what you know is the next part and there are 3 types of English spin to be applied FHE , BHE and Parallel Applied English.

I would tell anyone that is at the place you are in their game to go to Youtube and watch the videos on FHE and BHE by dr.dave. When you have done that and used those principles in your game a few weeks give me a shout and I will give you some insight on what to expect so you will know what to expect from the use of them.
 
Shermanscs said:
Over time, there have been a number of some very good pool players that I respect who have observed my game suggest to me that I try as much as possible to eliminate english and to instead use natural angles, speed and high, middle & low cueing to derive position. There is nothing more poetic to me than to see a player who really can really put a stroke on the ball and juice it around the table to get position. However, trying to emulate this and work it into my game has been very difficult to master and in fact, has been something that has proven difficult to be consistent with.

I had recently purchased a DVD set (I won't mention which one because I don't want this post to be mistaken for cheap advertising of the instructional material), whereby the instructor provided the same advice about eliminating english and who dedicated the instructional material to exhibiting how to derive position with angles, speed and high, center & low positioning.

I have begun to ween myself off english and have been incorporating these techniques into my game and thus far it is yielding very positive results. Of course, there are always times when english is neccessary, but it is clear to me that I have been over using it. It is surprising, but I have been more consistent in achieving position and pocketing balls.

I am going to keep working at it, but so far, I must say that I am convinced this is a good thing.

Thoughts?
- Steve
Click to expand...

If it's working for you, why would you care what others say? I've fallen back in love with snooker and have started practicing for hours on the 6*12 every day. All the little stun, follow, draw shots without much sidespin (mostly, but sometimes it's required here as well) give you a great knowledge of the cueball that translates back to the 9 footer. It teaches accurate potting, which IMHO is the key to good position. Sloppy potting means bad position play!

If you play on fast and very tight equipment then you will probably do well with mostly center ball. In my experience center ball will lead to fewer missed shots, but more missed position shots. On a fast table you can travel without spin and without having to slam the shot so it works in the favour of the center baller.

On tables that are loose and slow, you will get run over by good players that are unafraid of spinning the ball.
 
Chris (Tate) is right...I use english on just about every shot but some straight in and may even use it on those depending on position... To maximize your potential you must learn how to use spin... It's one of the most powerful tools in your game...
 
I agree with previous posters and I'm actually really happy about it. I take me seeing, thinking, and advising the same way more experienced players as I sign that I really have gotten better at this game.

Celebration aside, I know that Tor Lowry advises players to use as little English and spin as possible. However, the reason being is that players need to understand how the CB reacts off rails and off contact without spin, draw, or follow.

I know quite alot of beginner or novice players who I teach (mostly league mates who want to improve beyond a SL 3) that, when I question their thinking on getting from ball to ball, tell me they're going to use lots of spin to get into shape. They don't understand how they miss position so bad when they do this though - it's because they don't understand how spin affects angles.

Personally, when I play, I use slight amounts of English on every shot and will rarely ever go over a full tip because there is really no need. Once you understand how center ball works, move to draw and follow until you understand them, then move to English, and finally combine the two (high right, low left, etc).
 
SmoothStroke said:
Everyone has their own style of play.

I believe if you play inside the cue ball it's a better way to play. You can generate all the spin you need staying inside and can keep your core under control.
You must also know how to use the edges and master it.

Good luck with your change, I would not even think about eliminating English I would stay inside the cue ball and learn how to contain it, let them work together as a team when needed.

A master is just that, a master. The complete player can do it all.

Sincerely:SS
Click to expand...

On behalf of all the newbies, I need to ask What is "inside the cue ball?"
 
I think changing game around, adjusting things is part of anyone learning curve.

I myself did this also. started play fancy pool with a lot of english, needless to say I used an LD then.

Then I switched to custom cue and played a non-LD shaft, tried to minimize spin, it's like starting to learn pool all over again, then in months I played my best pool ever.

Then I started to encounter some tough tables, tight pockets and slow cloth, my little english game can't move the ball as effective as required, I needed to put in more power thus compromise my accuracy.

my mentor said it's time to use more english again. and I started apply more english, of course just when needed. and I must tell learning to use english when you already play well with center ball is much easier than the other way around. I get use to it in no time and it's all good now.

Pros I talked to said they need a certain amount of english in every shot to help move cue ball precisely without having to increase power. I think it's true.

I love to watch Carlo Biado's game, i think his use of english to the smallest amount is a joy to watch.
 
bdorman said:
On behalf of all the newbies, I need to ask What is "inside the cue ball?"
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