Ensuring that 2 players don't split a big purse:

Sheldon

dontneednostinkintitle
Silver Member
For a backer to get burned, one of them would have to be dumping. That would probably be tough to get away with.
 

ChrisinNC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
For a backer to get burned, one of them would have to be dumping. That would probably be tough to get away with.
How is that? If both players are in on it and keep it between them, neither backer needs to know anything. The one that loses or the one that wins.
 

Sheldon

dontneednostinkintitle
Silver Member
I guess they could figure out a way, but it doesn't make much sense unless the backer is in on the chop.
 

sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
I could care less about the backers. When their player splits first/second, they'll make a score.

The real loser when there's a chop is the event producer that put up the added money, expecting its patrons and other viewers to get to watch a final. Why should the players have the right to deny such people a final match? It's unprofessional and just another example of pool's lack of self-respect.

Players who chop should be fined.
 

kaznj

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Stu I agree with what you said in regards to tournaments. There is problem with small local tournaments with calcuttas. Also when two players match up for a cash game.
If you and I play for cash with the intent on robbing my backer it is easy to accomplish this.
 

sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
Stu I agree with what you said in regards to tournaments. There is problem with small local tournaments with calcuttas. Also when two players match up for a cash game.
If you and I play for cash with the intent on robbing my backer it is easy to accomplish this.
The thread title says there is a purse, so we're talking about tournaments here. Action matches don't have a purse.

Dumping and splitting a purse are two different subjects. It's scary how often players split the purse and forego the final.
 

stevelomako

Things could be worse
Silver Member
I could care less about the backers. When their player splits first/second, they'll make a score.

The real loser when there's a chop is the event producer that put up the added money, expecting its patrons and other viewers to get to watch a final. Why should the players have the right to deny such people a final match? It's unprofessional and just another example of pool's lack of self-respect.

Players who chop should be fined.
Who’s going to fine them?

Who’s going to collect it?

Who is going to pay it?

How are you going to prove anything?


Money has been chopped up in all kinds of events. I know in pool tournaments you get towards the end and savers are made and the last two might make the payouts closer to even.
 

sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
Who’s going to fine them?

Who’s going to collect it?

Who is going to pay it?

How are you going to prove anything?


Money has been chopped up in all kinds of events. I know in pool tournaments you get towards the end and savers are made and the last two might make the payouts closer to even.
Agreed that chops and savers are everywhere.

One way you might handle it is this: When two players choose not to play the final, which happens all the time, there is no need for any proof. They have denied the event producer a final that the producer paid for. If first prize is $4,000 and second prize is $2,000. If they chop and forego playing the final, they get paid $2,900 each, rather than $3,000 each.
 

stevelomako

Things could be worse
Silver Member
Agreed that chops and savers are everywhere.

One way you might handle it is this: When two players choose not to play the final, which happens all the time, there is no need for any proof. They have denied the event producer a final that the producer paid for. If first prize is $4,000 and second prize is $2,000. If they chop and forego playing the final, they get paid $2,900 each, rather than $3,000 each.
It never works out how you want it. 🤷🏻‍♂️

I’ve been on every end of it.

The money always has to be right, all you can do is pay out what’s promised.
 

sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
It never works out how you want it. 🤷🏻‍♂️

I’ve been on every end of it.

The money always has to be right, all you can do is pay out what’s promised.
I think we're basically of one mind here, Steve, and I agree that most of this is unavoidable. In most scenarios, the interests of the event producer are not compromised, but on that rare occasion that those interests are compromised, I don't like it.
 

stevelomako

Things could be worse
Silver Member
I think we're basically of one mind here, Steve, and I agree that most of this is unavoidable. In most scenarios, the interests of the event producer are not compromised, but on that rare occasion that those interests are compromised, I don't like it.
I get ya Stu. I never really liked putting up money for tournaments and then handing out different payouts at the end.

All I would do is put the money for each place in an envelope and hand it to them as they lost. They could figure it out on their own.
 

iusedtoberich

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think most times there is a chop "that is not secret", is for local events where the final starts at 3am, and 5 fans are left in attendance. This used to happen almost every week at our local $5 entry handicapped 9 ball event that would get 64 players every Tuesday, and start at 8pm. It was a single elim, race to 5. It would also happen frequently at 1 day open regional events that were double elimination, calcutta, and start Sunday at noon, with a full 64 player field. This was in the early 2000's when the events would always fill and have a waiting list. In cases like these, what are you going to do? Everyone just wants to go home. Players, staff, fans alike.
 

cookie man

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Agreed that chops and savers are everywhere.

One way you might handle it is this: When two players choose not to play the final, which happens all the time, there is no need for any proof. They have denied the event producer a final that the producer paid for. If first prize is $4,000 and second prize is $2,000. If they chop and forego playing the final, they get paid $2,900 each, rather than $3,000 each.
Knowing that they obviously will play it. But that doesn’t mean they still aren’t splitting it and that there hearts will be in it.
 
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Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I think most times there is a chop "that is not secret", is for local events where the final starts at 3am, and 5 fans are left in attendance. This used to happen almost every week at our local $5 entry handicapped 9 ball event that would get 64 players every Tuesday, and start at 8pm. It was a single elim, race to 5. It would also happen frequently at 1 day open regional events that were double elimination, calcutta, and start Sunday at noon, with a full 64 player field. This was in the early 2000's when the events would always fill and have a waiting list. In cases like these, what are you going to do? Everyone just wants to go home. Players, staff, fans alike.
It's up to the TD/promoter to make the event finish on time. Getting rid of double elimination is a first step.
 

Qaddiction

User name says it all...
Silver Member
Agreed that chops and savers are everywhere.

One way you might handle it is this: When two players choose not to play the final, which happens all the time, there is no need for any proof. They have denied the event producer a final that the producer paid for. If first prize is $4,000 and second prize is $2,000. If they chop and forego playing the final, they get paid $2,900 each, rather than $3,000 each.
Make it even worse Stu. Since there is no actual winner decided, they can split the 2nd place purse of $2,000 that they have each earned! That would bring a stop to it real quick.
 

King T

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Make it even worse Stu. Since there is no actual winner decided, they can split the 2nd place purse of $2,000 that they have each earned! That would bring a stop to it real quick.
Theres no need to do that! Most of these players show up at the same events all the time and if they are regular contributors to the tournament or Pool hall then they should be able to get the Money. No one wins or cashes everytime so the same guys the cop this week might not even cash next week. I do agree that people want to see the finial match, but not when the final is at 1:40 on the moring and I've been there since 11:00AM!
 
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