epoxy question

dave sutton

dave sutton

Banned
just wondering thoughts on different cure times. i did a search but az search process sucks.
anyway i use the 30 min from atlas mostly. 10$ for 9oz i have good results

http://www.cuestik.com/store/product.asp?DEPARTMENT_ID=55&ITEM_ID=5709

i ran out and grabbed some deavcon 5 min. i just assume longer cue time equals better bonding but i always let epoxy sit minimum overnight anyway.

im not looking to change butjust want to hear thoughts about time. say with 5min 30 min or 60 min if i waited say 24-48 hrs before work does it equal the same over that time. i understand dried and cured are two different things.
 
dave sutton said:
just wondering thoughts on different cure times. i did a search but az search process sucks.
anyway i use the 30 min from atlas mostly. 10$ for 9oz i have good results

http://www.cuestik.com/store/product.asp?DEPARTMENT_ID=55&ITEM_ID=5709

i ran out and grabbed some deavcon 5 min. i just assume longer cue time equals better bonding but i always let epoxy sit minimum overnight anyway.

im not looking to change butjust want to hear thoughts about time. say with 5min 30 min or 60 min if i waited say 24-48 hrs before work does it equal the same over that time. i understand dried and cured are two different things.
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Dave if you talking about Ferrules the Atlas product is fine.

However, if you are talking about Joint Collars, Butt Caps, or anything else during the construction of the cues Butt, I use only a slow set Epoxy. I personally use West Systems with 207 Hardener, it is the best Epoxy I can think of for cues. West Systems is a super strong Marine Epoxy and it is certainly very very Moisture resistance.

The strength of Epoxy on based upon the cure time of the hardener used. The faster the cure time the more brittle the Epoxy will be, and this makes fast curing Epoxy weaker then the the slow curng Epoxy Hardeners.

The slow curing Epoxy Hardeners are more shatter resistant and impact resistant. They will remain slightly flexible once completely cured, where Quick Set Epoxy will become completely non flexible. This flexibility is where a Hardeners strength comes form, along with the time required to cure.The hardener used is the key to Epoxy strength not how long you wait before using the finished product.
 
i understand that. just like super glue and gel super glue. i use loctite gel bc it stays flexable as you say and doesnt break. i am all for spending money to make money. i like to use the best possible products bc i feel i will see the return in the finished product. just wondering where the line is and what becomes over kill.

for instance ive heard a few makers that wont let their cues go out bc the finish isnt fully cured. which can take up to a year to cure. that imo is overkill
 
This is the nutz right here....full cures in 12 hours...
 

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One thing I look at when choosing the right stuff, is how thick it is, the fast setting is thicker, therefore doesn't really 'wet' the wood and go deep like the slow cure ones. When you read the spec sheets they usually tell mention how it's 'wetting action' is.
Dave
 
the slower the cure the stronger the bond, 24 hr. stuff ... already a thread about this ... Golfsmith.com has the better epoxy you can use for cue assembly ... People beat the you know what out of their golf clubs so it's designed for bonding steel ... Overkill for cues but if you want a real solid but and no fear of failure it's good stuff ... been using it for years building golf clubs and cues ... very handy for most anything ...:cool:
 
Eric Wynne said:
the slower the cure the stronger the bond, 24 hr. stuff ... already a thread about this ... Golfsmith.com has the better epoxy you can use for cue assembly ... People beat the you know what out of their golf clubs so it's designed for bonding steel ... Overkill for cues but if you want a real solid but and no fear of failure it's good stuff ... been using it for years building golf clubs and cues ... very handy for most anything ...:cool:
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Another benefit of the slow-set epoxies is their working time, often up to 2 hours. The fast-set stuff sometimes sets so fast that you have to mix a second batch to finish a job , not a problem with the slow-sets. If you want it to set up faster just warm it up a bit, the 4-hour-set epoxies (24 hour cure) can be set in 45 minutes if you raise the temp from say 70 to 90 ... an incandescant light bulb works well in this application .... or a hot car :D

Dave
 
BLACKHEARTCUES said:
Sorry Craig, but the picture is a little dark...WHAT IS IT?...JER
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Sorry I must not have used the flash. It's Power Poxy.
 

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There are so many epoxies to choose from.
Most laminating epoxies are not that well suited to what cue makers need in an epoxy, however ,west system and system 2000, to name a couple, have additves to make the epoxy more universal.
For joints in cues, it is important to have a glue that has a high yeild point and a high flexual strength. Cue joints are subjected to alot of vibration and shock loading over a long period of time. What may be a quick fix now , could possibly be a nightmare 4 years down the track.
I personally do not like 5 min epoxy. But it does have it's place.
On saying that, I have used 1 min epoxy from loctite for some tips and worked surprisingly well. They are not kidding about the 1 min work time. But full cure is still about 24 hrs, trimable after 5 mins.
Try and read what you can about the epoxy you are using and it's recomended cure tempretures and mixing ratios. Some will give you the acceptable limits to still have the resin cure to the spec's.Sometimes cureing at too low a temp is just as detremental as too high.
Neil
 
Dave the Devcon 5 minute is pretty good.i think the Devcon 5 minute is just as strong as the Devcon 2 ton.i think the tensile strength is 2500 lbs which is pretty stout.i found some 8 minute epoxy that actually is more like 20 minute epoxy,but it has a 3000lb strength.it is the strongest quick set epoxy i could find anywhere.as Craig mentioned there is also the high grade slow cure epoxies if you have time.they have strength ratings in the 7000-8000lb range,and there are some others even stronger than West,but i don't have time to let the cue sit under pressure for 24hrs.while i miss the 5 minutes stuff,it is nice to have extra time to line up rings(if i forgot:eek: )or take a break or whatever.
 
Most laminating epoxies are not that well suited to what cue makers need in an epoxy, however ,west system and system 2000, to name a couple, have additves to make the epoxy more universal
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what makes the laminating epoxies ill suited for cues?i thought most everyone uses them for the a-joints.
 
masonh said:
what makes the laminating epoxies ill suited for cues?i thought most everyone uses them for the a-joints.
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One of the problems with laminating epoxy is it's thinner viscosity. It can and will wick into the wood possibly leaving a "dry" joint. End grain of the woods are the most susceptible to this happening possibly leaving room for an unwanted buzzing noise that may not show up until the cue has been down the road.
The best epoxy to use at the A joint should have a thicker viscosity yet still have a long enough open time to allow it to saturate into the wood yet be snotty enough to fill any small voids left in threaded areas or the ends of cavities.
Best to apply the glue to both halves and leave it sit for 15-20 minutes before applying a bit more prior to securing the two parts together.
Don't mix any more than one cue at a time....even if there are 2 or more to be glued.
I prefer mixing by weight instead of volume to get a more exact mixture. Most epoxies have a small window for mixture error but usually not more then 5-10%. I don't like guessing when your gluing the foundation of your butt together.
 
I don't like guessing when your gluing the foundation of your butt together.
__________________
Dave

Well said sir...
 
Dave many top cue makers have told me west system epically when or if your gluing metal or aluminum rings and you want to keep them from popping
i think overnight pressure and west system slow hardener is the best. i buy that with the pump so theres no guessing on the mix.................lee
 
dave sutton said:
just wondering thoughts on different cure times. i did a search but az search process sucks.
anyway i use the 30 min from atlas mostly. 10$ for 9oz i have good results

http://www.cuestik.com/store/product.asp?DEPARTMENT_ID=55&ITEM_ID=5709

i ran out and grabbed some deavcon 5 min. i just assume longer cue time equals better bonding but i always let epoxy sit minimum overnight anyway.

im not looking to change butjust want to hear thoughts about time. say with 5min 30 min or 60 min if i waited say 24-48 hrs before work does it equal the same over that time. i understand dried and cured are two different things.
Click to expand...


I have been using Devcon 5min epoxy for years and have had wonderful consistant results with it !!!

I even have to use a blowtorch when I want to remove a joint pin when using that stuff....

It's easy to work with and very strong and I havent seen any variance in the weight either... it's very consistant and doesn't color over time !!!


- Eddie Wheat
 
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