ESPN Classic Billiards Marathon Today!
- Thread starter Snookerd
- Start date
Johnny Archer and Ronnie Wiseman right now.
For what it's worth, these are the matches that may be on. My TV Guide doesn't specify which matches are going to be shown.
Thought this might help.
2008 final matches:
Men's Semi-Final 1: Johnny Archer vs. Ronnie Wiseman
Men's Semi-Final 2: Shawn Putnam vs. Jeremy Jones
Men's Final: Ronnie Wiseman vs. Jeremy Jones
Women's Semi-Final 1: Anna Kostanian vs. Xiaoting Pan
Women's Semi-Final 2: Jasmine Ouschan vs. Ga Young Kim
Women's Final: Xiaoting Pan vs. Ga Young Kim
Thought this might help.
2008 final matches:
Men's Semi-Final 1: Johnny Archer vs. Ronnie Wiseman
Men's Semi-Final 2: Shawn Putnam vs. Jeremy Jones
Men's Final: Ronnie Wiseman vs. Jeremy Jones
Women's Semi-Final 1: Anna Kostanian vs. Xiaoting Pan
Women's Semi-Final 2: Jasmine Ouschan vs. Ga Young Kim
Women's Final: Xiaoting Pan vs. Ga Young Kim
I'm not sure what I think....
WOW!
Just saw the infamous exchange between Archer and Wiseman at 6-3
IMO perhaps Johnny should not have left his seat but I personally don't think he was trying to "put a move" on Wiseman. I know that Tipton was standing there, but was there really anything WRONG with him (Johnny) getting clarification on that shot where the balls were close together?? Not to mention Wiseman is a seasoned road pro and I can't believe that he would let that get to him so much and throw a fit like that. I have actively rooted against Ronnie ever since the first time I saw this especially his interview later on where he accuses Johnny of trying to shark him and that it was "all a move" to distract him. I'm not really sure why, but the cry baby routine(even though he won) really bugs me
WOW!
Just saw the infamous exchange between Archer and Wiseman at 6-3
IMO perhaps Johnny should not have left his seat but I personally don't think he was trying to "put a move" on Wiseman. I know that Tipton was standing there, but was there really anything WRONG with him (Johnny) getting clarification on that shot where the balls were close together?? Not to mention Wiseman is a seasoned road pro and I can't believe that he would let that get to him so much and throw a fit like that. I have actively rooted against Ronnie ever since the first time I saw this especially his interview later on where he accuses Johnny of trying to shark him and that it was "all a move" to distract him. I'm not really sure why, but the cry baby routine(even though he won) really bugs me
relevant youtube link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_XERutsL1Y&feature=related
at 2:15ish.
I think that when you complain about these things you have to be polite about it and every bit as self-effacing and apologetic as archer appeared to be.
However it was a move, and I've lost a little respect for johnny after seeing it. Archer knows he's dealing with a pro, not some APA 3 in the bar box league who doesn't know the difference between a push foul and a toilet seat. He cannot honestly believe that the man is somehow unaware of the possibility of an illegal double hit, or that wiseman didn't know he should shoot away from it. If he does somehow think that wiseman will do a push foul in front of a hundred witnesses and a referee and a TV camera, then johnny (as an experienced pro) ALSO has to be aware of the fact that getting out of your chair and questioning the man on it is going to shark him. But he chose to do it anyway. I am sure that if the situation was reversed, johnny would not appreciate someone getting out of their chair and invading his space while he's trying to figure out a tricky shot in a high pressure situation.
The hell of it is, wiseman WAS aiming away when he initially lined up, and in no danger of pushing. If archer sincerely thought a foul was about to be committed, it would have been in his best interest to sit quiet and pray wiseman committed that double hit. Then johnny would just have to trust that the ref is competent enough to see it and call it.
The ref exists to handle this exact kind of situation, let him do his job. You don't need a crowd of people to watch the hit, just the guy who is getting paid to do it (by your entry fee!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_XERutsL1Y&feature=related
at 2:15ish.
I think that when you complain about these things you have to be polite about it and every bit as self-effacing and apologetic as archer appeared to be.
However it was a move, and I've lost a little respect for johnny after seeing it. Archer knows he's dealing with a pro, not some APA 3 in the bar box league who doesn't know the difference between a push foul and a toilet seat. He cannot honestly believe that the man is somehow unaware of the possibility of an illegal double hit, or that wiseman didn't know he should shoot away from it. If he does somehow think that wiseman will do a push foul in front of a hundred witnesses and a referee and a TV camera, then johnny (as an experienced pro) ALSO has to be aware of the fact that getting out of your chair and questioning the man on it is going to shark him. But he chose to do it anyway. I am sure that if the situation was reversed, johnny would not appreciate someone getting out of their chair and invading his space while he's trying to figure out a tricky shot in a high pressure situation.
The hell of it is, wiseman WAS aiming away when he initially lined up, and in no danger of pushing. If archer sincerely thought a foul was about to be committed, it would have been in his best interest to sit quiet and pray wiseman committed that double hit. Then johnny would just have to trust that the ref is competent enough to see it and call it.
The ref exists to handle this exact kind of situation, let him do his job. You don't need a crowd of people to watch the hit, just the guy who is getting paid to do it (by your entry fee!)
Ronnie did come off like a baby, but it seemed like a move from johnny. As much pool as he's played in his life Johnny shouldve known better.
Your right one both , I don't really know that much about Ronnie , he seem like a decent guy but seem like he could be a real @$$ and Archer well lets just say that Archer as gotten a bit weird over the years , I used to like him but now I just can't stand the picking of lint off of the table and tossing balls from one pocket to another even when he's not going to shoot a ball into those pockets , U think he's got OCD .
a move on Johnny's part
If Johnny was seriously concerned about the shot being a foul he would have made sure the ref was watching, not jumped into the middle of things himself. No question in my mind that it was a move. I also noted Johnny very pointedly turning his back and starting on his pool cues after the match instead of shaking hands. Johnny's behavior was a disappointment because it showed a lack of the class he is usually known for.
Johnny was very unhappy with himself early in the match for some silly mistakes and I noticed his jaw clenched so hard that the muscles made it look like he had a big wad of tobacco in his mouth. He was getting fairly thoroughly thrashed by someone he didn't think should be able to do that and he came unraveled a bit. I notice that Johnny doesn't seem to handle things quite as well as earlier in his career. Probably hearing the footsteps of time coming down the hall.
Hu
If Johnny was seriously concerned about the shot being a foul he would have made sure the ref was watching, not jumped into the middle of things himself. No question in my mind that it was a move. I also noted Johnny very pointedly turning his back and starting on his pool cues after the match instead of shaking hands. Johnny's behavior was a disappointment because it showed a lack of the class he is usually known for.
Johnny was very unhappy with himself early in the match for some silly mistakes and I noticed his jaw clenched so hard that the muscles made it look like he had a big wad of tobacco in his mouth. He was getting fairly thoroughly thrashed by someone he didn't think should be able to do that and he came unraveled a bit. I notice that Johnny doesn't seem to handle things quite as well as earlier in his career. Probably hearing the footsteps of time coming down the hall.
Hu
I don't know Archer, but I have met Wiseman and talked with him a few times. He is a stand up guy, but he does call them like he sees them. If he thought it was a move, and obviously he did, he would say something.
He's not one to pull punches.
He's not one to pull punches.
That was the mother of all moves.
The time to call a "wait-a-minute" isn't when Wiseman is over his shot.
Hell, even I know that.
The time to call a "wait-a-minute" isn't when Wiseman is over his shot.
Hell, even I know that.
Good one!! :grin-square::grin-square::grin-square:
Total shark move. He would NOT have liked what I said to him if he approached the table while I was shooting AND a ref standing right there.
It sure just seemed like a move to me when I saw it. I found myself pulling for Ronnie after the incident.
And I'm glad I did because Wiseman did indeed try to go immediately over the Archer to shake hands but Archer just turned his back and unscrewed. What reason did Archer have to not shake hands with the guy? He wasn't the victim.
Archer had missed some routine shots prior to this and was visibly PO'd. It appeared he let his emotions get the better of him.
And I'm glad I did because Wiseman did indeed try to go immediately over the Archer to shake hands but Archer just turned his back and unscrewed. What reason did Archer have to not shake hands with the guy? He wasn't the victim.
Archer had missed some routine shots prior to this and was visibly PO'd. It appeared he let his emotions get the better of him.
I taped this match and seen that as soon as the balls were stopped rolling Archer was up out of his chair peeking at how they wound up. He was standing behind Wiseman then. Then he walked up to the table and said what he did. If it was a total shark move, why didnt he just walk right up to the table instead of peeking at it out of Wisemans view?
My thinking on this is that Wiseman should have shook his hand when archer came over to his seat during commercial. wiseman left his hand hanging. that was a poor move like Johnnys was a poor move.
Remember how Archer yelled at Strickland for mumbling when johnny was shooting? What would he have done if earl did to him what he did to Wiseman.
I think both showed poor sportsmanship by not shaking hands.
My thinking on this is that Wiseman should have shook his hand when archer came over to his seat during commercial. wiseman left his hand hanging. that was a poor move like Johnnys was a poor move.
Remember how Archer yelled at Strickland for mumbling when johnny was shooting? What would he have done if earl did to him what he did to Wiseman.
I think both showed poor sportsmanship by not shaking hands.
Well, if a guy sincerely believes someone went out of their way to disrupt your playing, I can't blame him for refusing to shake. You don't shake the hand of a pickpocket even if you recover your wallet later.
On the other hand if you know it's gonna make a stir and maybe damage your reputation, I guess it'd make sense to play nice and pretend you're ok with shaking hands even if you'd rather be throttling the guy.
On the other hand if you know it's gonna make a stir and maybe damage your reputation, I guess it'd make sense to play nice and pretend you're ok with shaking hands even if you'd rather be throttling the guy.