Evolution Billiards - HONEST INFO NEEDED

M

MikeJanis

Banned
Does anybody have an honest inside scoop about this organization ?

http://www.evolutionbilliards.com/

Please save your speculations and post only facts.

Also, they are offering this...(see below)... And I made the cut for OHIO. I suggest everyone try just in case it goes.

The first player from every state to email us will get free entry into the Fox and Hound Silver Cup and the World Series Of Billiards!!



Thanks,

Mj
 
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Hi Mike

I have had some cummunications with the new Tour. Sounds like a great idea. I did not get very far with my questions.

I asked them to explain their payback formula for single elimination. As I read their posted payouts a red flag was raised immediately. Why don't you check the posted payouts and let me know if I'm the goofy one.

I can read something between the lines here, but I would like to stay very positive. You are one of the best in the business, tell me what you think......randyg (former co-partner of TEXAS EXPRESS)
 
randyg said:
Hi Mike

I have had some cummunications with the new Tour. Sounds like a great idea. I did not get very far with my questions.

I asked them to explain their payback formula for single elimination. As I read their posted payouts a red flag was raised immediately. Why don't you check the posted payouts and let me know if I'm the goofy one.

I can read something between the lines here, but I would like to stay very positive. You are one of the best in the business, tell me what you think......randyg (former co-partner of TEXAS EXPRESS)
Click to expand...

Randy, thanks for the good words.... As far as the payouts go, this is all I found on their web site.

THE EBS SILVER CUP IS A 500 PLAYER TOUNAMENT THAT WILL HAVE THE FOLLOWING CASH PRIZES. 1ST $40,000 2ND $20,000 3RD $15,000 4TH $10,000 5TH $7,000 6TH $6,000 7TH $5,000 8TH $4,000 9TH $3,000 10TH $1,750 11TH-50TH $500

With an entry fee of $500 per with 500 players they take in $250,000. However if they give away 50 free entry fees they only take in $225,000.
They are only giving back $131,750.00 for a gross pfofit of $93,250.

The things I was not able to find are:
#1 The payouts are guaranteed - no matter how many players attend.
#2 If they are televising this event
#3 If there are currently any sponsors

Just so I don't mislead anyone with the #''rs. A gross profit of $93K is not unreasonable if they are producing the event for television (which is an easy $50K) or if they are guaranteeing the payouts not to mention todays cost of advertising. Just to give it a little perspective...... If they GUARANTEE the payouts that are stated above then they are risking $131K to only get a return of $93K. Given the fact that it is highly unlikely that they will get anywhere near the expected 500 players it would not be completely out of line if the payouts were guaranteed.

But what the heck, I got a FREE ENTRY FEE so I wish them luck.

Also, as randy mentioned. The payouts are not right for a single elimination event.
3-4 is a tie and so are 5,6, 7 and 8th places not to mention many of the rest. On a side note it would change the payout percentages if the person that wrote the message meant 3rd place is the tie and each player gets the $15K and the same with 4th place where each of the 4 players would get the $10K each and so on. I didn't do the math but it seems that the payouts would be more equal to the entry fees and any added monies if that was the case.

We should ask them about that. Maybe the person that created the web page on 11/28 made a mistake and didn't understand what the provider of the info meant. Anythings possible.

Randy, I hope all goes well at the event on SO Padre. I wish I could be there.
I haven't been back to Texas since I moved away from La Porte (Houston) back in 1986/7.

Need any help with the event?


Mj
 
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Mike...I just spoke with Michael Crawhorn, at EBS, and confirmed my own free entry. I asked him about guaranteed payouts, and he replied that they were guaranteed, based on entries. I also addressed the issue of ties, and
he mentioned that those were mistakes, and would be corrected. Who knows if this is legit or not, but I'm in too, if it is! :D

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
"Also, as randy mentioned. The payouts are not right for a single elimination event.
3-4 is a tie and so are 5,6, 7 and 8th places not to mention many of the rest. On a side note it would change the payout percentages if the person that wrote the message meant 3rd place is the tie and each player gets the $15K and the same with 4th place where each of the 4 players would get the $10K each and so on. I didn't do the math but it seems that the payouts would be more equal to the entry fees and any added monies if that was the case. "

Too many red flags. Sounds like a Marketing Company trying to become a Tournament Director.

Scott stay after them. We need to know.

Mike, I will email you a flyer for the $10,000 ADDED Tournament in Jan. Thanks for the help.....randyg
 
I just had a nice conversation with Michael Crawhorn from Evolution Billiards. I asked him some very direct questions reagrding the money/payouts.

Michael stated to me that approximately $172,000 is guaranteed to be paid out at the 1st event. Again he stated that it was GUARANTEED and not based on the number of participants. He informed me that he would be updating the website to reflect this.

I asked him, "What if only 40 players participate in the event, would the money still be paid out to the tune of $172,000?" he stated YES.

While talking with him I noticed he was in a bit of a rush to get things going. He told me that he would be updating the web site to give more detailed information. He also stated that he will be placing ads in many magazines and providing Press Releases as soon as he could.

Based solely on my conversation with him he seems sincere and this is going to happen. I hope we can hold off on the nay-saying until he can provide us (via the Evolution Billiards web site) with the additional info he mentioned in our conversation.

I wish him the best of luck and can't wait to see more information.

Respectfully,


Mj
 
Good job Mike! See you in Aurora in Feb.! Sounds like this could be a great thing for pool. Seems like the IPT has lit a fire for others to follow! Hot damn! As you well know, even in your excellent tour, it is difficult for more than the top 3-4 winners to break even in the local events, let alone make money, after expenses. You're doing it quite well...let's hope these guys do it even better! :D

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
Scott Lee said:
Good job Mike! See you in Aurora in Feb.! Sounds like this could be a great thing for pool. Seems like the IPT has lit a fire for others to follow! Hot damn! As you well know, even in your excellent tour, it is difficult for more than the top 3-4 winners to break even in the local events, let alone make money, after expenses. You're doing it quite well...let's hope these guys do it even better! :D

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

Hey Scott, I'm there too. Thanks Mike.
 
Evolution Biliard tour

Spoke with Mike Crawhorn regarding the release of information on this tourn. Much has already been covered...regardless of entries money will be paid (stated the money was guaranteed). More tournaments to be listed, some open to all, some open to tour members only. Race tp 8 playing 8 ball by BCA rules; 500 entry, SINGLE ELIMINATION. I am so jaded regarding tours and tournaments lately that I don't really know what to think. I hope they get the entries needed to make this work, but I have my doubts. Pool players just don't have the cash and most won't play single elimination for that kind of entry regardless of payout. (BTW...they really need to show the payout correctly, and get more organized) Bottom line, we'll see!
 
MikeJanis said:
I forgot to ask.

Mj
Click to expand...

Hey Mike,
I have been following the threads from the start, went to the website, looked good, but after several days with 1 response, I now just hope it is on the up & up.
"Have a nice day",
Lamar
 
The Evolution Folks seem to have the right idea about promotion, and they damn sure have the money guaranteed. They convinced Scott, and they convinced Mike, so they've convinced me. I'm paying my tour membership first thing in the morning. I don't care about "benefits" or profit sharing... what I care about is they are offering pool players a fair chance to compete for a decent payday, and I'm "all in"...

To be honest, I plan to use this as a stepping stone, of sorts. I will eagerly take the "free entry" I got to two of the events, and pay the entry fee for the others. If I do well, I'll play in the IPT qualifier next year, and if I don't, I'll keep on playing in Evo or Midwest 9-ball, until I can stake myself into something better.

Now, wanna hear a lie? Ok, here goes "It's not about the money, it's about the game". Yeah, right... it's about the money all the way, I don't have to play pool for a living, as I have a good retirement for a relatively young man (48 years old), but you have to have money to play pool and you have to make money to keep on playing pool (on a tournament level). Evolution and IPT are offering us a chance to finally do something besides just cover our hotel and food expenses for a tournament and like I said, I'm "all in".

Later,
Bob
 
MikeJanis said:
I just had a nice conversation with Michael Crawhorn from Evolution Billiards. I asked him some very direct questions reagrding the money/payouts.

Michael stated to me that approximately $172,000 is guaranteed to be paid out at the 1st event. Again he stated that it was GUARANTEED and not based on the number of participants. He informed me that he would be updating the website to reflect this.

I asked him, "What if only 40 players participate in the event, would the money still be paid out to the tune of $172,000?" he stated YES.

While talking with him I noticed he was in a bit of a rush to get things going. He told me that he would be updating the web site to give more detailed information. He also stated that he will be placing ads in many magazines and providing Press Releases as soon as he could.

Based solely on my conversation with him he seems sincere and this is going to happen. I hope we can hold off on the nay-saying until he can provide us (via the Evolution Billiards web site) with the additional info he mentioned in our conversation.

I wish him the best of luck and can't wait to see more information.

Respectfully,


Mj
Click to expand...

Hey Mike,
Sorry but, I do not like what I see at www.evolutionsbilliards.com
MJ, Would you please give these guys a helping hand?
1st: Why 500 players vs 512 players (an even bracket)?
2nd: Purse increased from $172,000 to $237,150 ?
3rd: Payout list revised from 50th position to 500th position?
4th: The 500th position was shown to win $150, & then, within a mater of hours, was decreased to $100?
5th: Free entry list deleted from web site?

Mike J, these are just some of the things that bug me about this event. "PLEASE GIVE THEM A HELPING HAND".

"Have A Nice Day",
Lamar
 
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Their website alone states that they guarantee the payout regardless of the turnout. I investigated the tour after being prompted by a prominent tournament director in the area. I do have a few problems with the website, #1 there are too many spelling and grammar errors to begin with for such a highly organized business. #2 when I called I was transferred to 4 people and no one could tell me the entry fee for one of the tournaments. But, $100 membership for this type of tour is worth it not to mention the benefits as most pool players don’t work. This will be interesting to see if it is for real or not, but any non profit organization always makes money when they donate to a good cause, do we know if these people are doctors or lawyers????? Or maybe they are a pharmaceutical company or an insurance company.
 
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