Evolution Billiards - HONEST INFO NEEDED
- Thread starter MikeJanis
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T
thequartermile
Guest
alot of new info
They have posted their sponsors and answered some questions. I talked with heather Johnson today and I was told the insurance is part of the blue cross blue shield sponsorship hat the tour has received.
I took this off their website
Starting January 1st 2006 every member of the EBS will receive medical and prescription benefits for free of charge. Our players will receive what they have deserved for 100yrs.
Thanks to BCBS we will be giving out 1500 insurance plans to our members for the 2006 tour at No cost to them except for the $500 medical deductible, $10 office co/pay and the $10 / $20 co/pay on prescriptions. These plan's are for the tour players only and do not cover their family. Upon request we can add spouses and dependants at the player's financial responsibility.
They have posted their sponsors and answered some questions. I talked with heather Johnson today and I was told the insurance is part of the blue cross blue shield sponsorship hat the tour has received.
I took this off their website
Starting January 1st 2006 every member of the EBS will receive medical and prescription benefits for free of charge. Our players will receive what they have deserved for 100yrs.
Thanks to BCBS we will be giving out 1500 insurance plans to our members for the 2006 tour at No cost to them except for the $500 medical deductible, $10 office co/pay and the $10 / $20 co/pay on prescriptions. These plan's are for the tour players only and do not cover their family. Upon request we can add spouses and dependants at the player's financial responsibility.
I saw this site a few months ago I think. It looks very suspicious to me.
They have some big sponsors, but where are the press releases about gaining large sponsors.
Where is the 'about us'? Why is there no trace of a Michael Crawhorn on google. How does such an operation come out of no where?
My guess is it's a scam, set up by someone who got the idea when the IPT was starting up and people thought it may be a scam to get membership fees.
Nothing about the site, its language or operation methodology rings true to me. These free entries are probably to recruit people to bring in members.
Call the sponsors and you'll soon see if this is a scam. Does anybody know Michael or anyone else in this organization?
Beware!
They have some big sponsors, but where are the press releases about gaining large sponsors.
Where is the 'about us'? Why is there no trace of a Michael Crawhorn on google. How does such an operation come out of no where?
My guess is it's a scam, set up by someone who got the idea when the IPT was starting up and people thought it may be a scam to get membership fees.
Nothing about the site, its language or operation methodology rings true to me. These free entries are probably to recruit people to bring in members.
Call the sponsors and you'll soon see if this is a scam. Does anybody know Michael or anyone else in this organization?
Beware!
Fyi
FYI
Many of us within the industry reserve our thoughts until one of two things happen.
1. Somebody or some organization does what it claims.
or
2. Somebody ties a rope around their own neck.
The only think I know for sure about Evolution Billiards is that I am on the list for a FREE entry fee. Other than that, " I know nothing !".
What I will say is that I hope it's for real and they succeed.
I wish them the best.
Mj
FYI
Many of us within the industry reserve our thoughts until one of two things happen.
1. Somebody or some organization does what it claims.
or
2. Somebody ties a rope around their own neck.
The only think I know for sure about Evolution Billiards is that I am on the list for a FREE entry fee. Other than that, " I know nothing !".
What I will say is that I hope it's for real and they succeed.
I wish them the best.
Mj
Well I just checked the Illinois State Secretary of States site and Evolution Billiards is a registered corporation in good standing. Agents are Spiegal & Utrera PA (personal att.). Fox & Hound are a large group of pubs across the country so should be easy enough for anybody to check with the location of the first tournament.
Terry
Terry
I'm also in, with a free entry...and I've been to that particular Fox & Hound, having given lessons in there a couple of years ago. It seems unlikely that they could run a 500-person tournament from that location, as IIRC, there are only about a dozen tables. However, like Mike, I'll reserve my judgement, and will definitely be showing up in Feb.
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
I contacted the Fox & Hound venue concerned and their event manager Kelly White confirmed that Evolution Billiards was organizing a large one week pool tournament there.Scott Lee said:
Still, as a sponsorship seller by trade, I am amazed by the companies the website is claiming as sponsors (including Kodak and Mastercard). Especially considering the poor quality of the copywriting on the website.
btw: A Who Is search listed the domain name registree as Nick Gill.
It would be comforting to know if anyone who is known in the pool world is familiar with Michael Crawhorn, Nick Gill or Evolution Billiards.
It would be amazing for someone with no track record, no internet history except for a few pool forum posts to pull off the biggest pool event in history.
I hope Michael or some sleuths can provide some more light on this issue.
Still concerned!
I copied this today from their website.
I do not think we on the AZ site have been negative what so ever! I revisited this thread because of feedback from some local people here in MI to check out what they were saying. Take a look through the rest of the links on their website. I hope that if they are on the up and up that this does take off for the billiard industry.
steddy's girlfriend!
"Quote" - Vivian- God has shined his light on you!I would like to thank all of the negative internet posting over the past month. Evolution Billiards has been working on this tour for years to give the industry what it deserve.
Due to the negative postings we have lost a major sponsor that said and I quote "they did not want to be associated with such a bitter and shady industry". What this means to the EBS tour members is thanks to our peers you lost $600,000 in prize money for 2006.
Can we please have the negative people that are keeping billiards in the basement please find a new game and let the rest of us take billiards to a next level.
The EBS tour is refunding all tournament entry fees and will be giving free entry to the remaining 110 open slots to the Fox and Hound Silver Cup.
As of December 15, 2005 we will not be accepting any entry's to any tournaments until January 1, 2006
The EBS tour will accept a total of 1500 tour members for 2006. These 1500 Players along with the 250 non tour members will be playing for a total of $11,000,000 in prize money in 2006.
If you are signing up for our tour only to get information about our tour for your own and you have no intension of playing we will be filling lawsuits against your tour! The four of you will be hearing from our attorney. There are thousands of players world wide that deserve their shot and all you are doing is taking that away from them. If you want information on our tour call me Michael Crawhorn (630) 618-4679 and I am always happy to help any body in the industry.
I do not think we on the AZ site have been negative what so ever! I revisited this thread because of feedback from some local people here in MI to check out what they were saying. Take a look through the rest of the links on their website. I hope that if they are on the up and up that this does take off for the billiard industry.
steddy's girlfriend!
"Quote" - Vivian- God has shined his light on you!I would like to thank all of the negative internet posting over the past month. Evolution Billiards has been working on this tour for years to give the industry what it deserve.
Due to the negative postings we have lost a major sponsor that said and I quote "they did not want to be associated with such a bitter and shady industry". What this means to the EBS tour members is thanks to our peers you lost $600,000 in prize money for 2006.
Can we please have the negative people that are keeping billiards in the basement please find a new game and let the rest of us take billiards to a next level.
The EBS tour is refunding all tournament entry fees and will be giving free entry to the remaining 110 open slots to the Fox and Hound Silver Cup.
As of December 15, 2005 we will not be accepting any entry's to any tournaments until January 1, 2006
The EBS tour will accept a total of 1500 tour members for 2006. These 1500 Players along with the 250 non tour members will be playing for a total of $11,000,000 in prize money in 2006.
If you are signing up for our tour only to get information about our tour for your own and you have no intension of playing we will be filling lawsuits against your tour! The four of you will be hearing from our attorney. There are thousands of players world wide that deserve their shot and all you are doing is taking that away from them. If you want information on our tour call me Michael Crawhorn (630) 618-4679 and I am always happy to help any body in the industry.
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T
thequartermile
Guest
Image is everything
Would you pay some company $10 or $10 million to have your name all over their event if people are calling you telling you that they are not a reputable company? And let’s say they came to azbilliards today? They would see that picture Team USA with the caption.
"You suck, you suck, all of London sucks!" yelled the three-time World Champion before being visibly restrained by his captain Johnny Archer.
These are corps not cue manufactures! The have an image to uphold and if we are all not ready to become professionals then we get what we deserve!
Would you pay some company $10 or $10 million to have your name all over their event if people are calling you telling you that they are not a reputable company? And let’s say they came to azbilliards today? They would see that picture Team USA with the caption.
"You suck, you suck, all of London sucks!" yelled the three-time World Champion before being visibly restrained by his captain Johnny Archer.
These are corps not cue manufactures! The have an image to uphold and if we are all not ready to become professionals then we get what we deserve!
A few bad apples spoil the whole barrel...
Way to go Colin! Nice hatchet job...for somebody on the other side of the world, who has no intention of even playing on this tour. There were legitimate questions asked immediately after this site opened. Mike Janis, myself, and a few others, made inquiries, and were satisfied that this was on the up and up. Mike made a definitive plea to restrain from negative talk...at least for the time being. Yet you continue to badmouth them, if for no other reason, than they don't have a proofreader for things they post on the site. Why don't you crawl back in your hole, and quit complaining about things that don't concern you. The concerns (if there are any) are the right of the people who want to play on this tour, not yours...and they have been addressed...at least enough to satisfy those of us who are going to play. You'd think poolplayers (and you say you are one) would be ecstatic to see mainstream corporate advertisers backing a tour (for the first time in history), for the sport we supposedly love and respect. I say leave them alone, and let them put together what they say they're going to. Complain afterwards, if they don't live up to it...not before!
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Colin Colenso said:
Way to go Colin! Nice hatchet job...for somebody on the other side of the world, who has no intention of even playing on this tour. There were legitimate questions asked immediately after this site opened. Mike Janis, myself, and a few others, made inquiries, and were satisfied that this was on the up and up. Mike made a definitive plea to restrain from negative talk...at least for the time being. Yet you continue to badmouth them, if for no other reason, than they don't have a proofreader for things they post on the site. Why don't you crawl back in your hole, and quit complaining about things that don't concern you. The concerns (if there are any) are the right of the people who want to play on this tour, not yours...and they have been addressed...at least enough to satisfy those of us who are going to play. You'd think poolplayers (and you say you are one) would be ecstatic to see mainstream corporate advertisers backing a tour (for the first time in history), for the sport we supposedly love and respect. I say leave them alone, and let them put together what they say they're going to. Complain afterwards, if they don't live up to it...not before!
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
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I just got off of the phone with Michael Crawhorn and I'm more comfortable than ever about the Evolution Tour. We spoke in depth about the tour, it's plans, it's formats, it's rules, it's sponsors, it's benefits and it's members. I am now an EBS member... so as such, can I ask one thing? Why don't those of you who are not involved in the EBS, who are not members of the EBS, who are not planning to play any of the EBS tour stops, just BACK OFF! Those of you that are IPT members... do you remember what it felt like when all the keyboard geeks could CONTINUALLY talk about was KT IS A THIEF, when they had no interest in the IPT at all, other than to get their name on a post trying to damn the IPT before it could get off the ground? Well, that's the same way those of us involved in the Evolution Tour feel right now. Geezzzz... every time anyone, and that means Kevin or Michael or anyone else who's ever tried to start a tour, gets their foot out there, there always seems to be a contingent of poolplayers ready to stomp their toes and who won't be content until they run them and their venture in the ground. If you don't have money in it, and you aren't going to pony up the entry fees and membership fees and play, then why don't you let those of us who ARE going to invest money in entry fees and memberships worry about our own money. I have the government involved enough in what I do with my money, what I don't need are a bunch of nosey assed poolplayers jumping in the middle of something that they don't have one red cent in and trying to pee down the back of the promoter and tell all of us it's raining on him.
Gentlemen, we as a group (men) have done everything in our power to destroy our chances of ever having the kind of tour the women have. I'm not talking about just the money, I'm talking about the credibility and popularity within the general public. I guess, even as generations of poolplayers pass on and new players take their place, as a group, the men are just too involved in other peoples business to sit back and hope this game will work it's way back out of the dark and into a good light.
Maybe I'm an idealist, but I wish the best for the IPT, the EBS and any other tour that may come about that wants to pay the players decent money. I HOPE they have the kind of success they're dreaming of, because if they do, then this game MIGHT someday receive the respect it deserves. As for those of you that don't wan't pocket billiards to come out of the dark ages, well, stick to your back rooms and hanging $5 bills on the light, worrying about whether you're going to get rolled for the nickel you just won and at least have the common courtesy to not slam everyone who tries to do something decent for this game.
Bob
Gentlemen, we as a group (men) have done everything in our power to destroy our chances of ever having the kind of tour the women have. I'm not talking about just the money, I'm talking about the credibility and popularity within the general public. I guess, even as generations of poolplayers pass on and new players take their place, as a group, the men are just too involved in other peoples business to sit back and hope this game will work it's way back out of the dark and into a good light.
Maybe I'm an idealist, but I wish the best for the IPT, the EBS and any other tour that may come about that wants to pay the players decent money. I HOPE they have the kind of success they're dreaming of, because if they do, then this game MIGHT someday receive the respect it deserves. As for those of you that don't wan't pocket billiards to come out of the dark ages, well, stick to your back rooms and hanging $5 bills on the light, worrying about whether you're going to get rolled for the nickel you just won and at least have the common courtesy to not slam everyone who tries to do something decent for this game.
Bob
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Cane said:
Hope you don't include me in this tirade
. I'm NOT a EBS member but I have been following it since Mikes first post. I think this could be great for billiards. Everything I've seen so far looks very promising. I agree that C.C. shouldn't be so quick to throw stones, I also was a defender of K.T., and there (Edit:was their) was way more ammunition against him and the IPT.
Terry
Edit Reason-the spelling police are out.
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Ok, I can't let this one go. Colin stated very nicely that he had some concerns, as do I. We do understand that negativity towards a new venture can cause a charged atmosphere and bias. But I am one of those that is about ready to invest in Evolution Billiards, and I want to make sure that it is all legit. Everyone should be doing their due diligence.
If this enterprise is truly legitimate, then I applaud them. Unlike the IPT that is funded by a billionaire with his own money, EB is sponsored (hopefully!) by independent corporations. The fact that there are so many big-name corporations on board with no knowledge within the industry raises concern in itself. Where are the press releases quoted from the pool magazines that Kodak and Mastercard are sponsoring pool? That would be huge news.
Original interest came from a thread here on AZB:
http://www.azbilliards.com/vbulletin/upload/showthread.php?t=21831
What I found unsettling is the moniker thequartermile asking all these questions, saying he paid the fees, etc. I encourage you to read all his posts.
When I Googled thequartermile and billiards, I got this link: http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/poolandbilliards/message/1501
and it brought up this:
From: "mhcrawhorn" <thequartermile@...>
Date: Wed Sep 7, 2005 7:11 pm
Subject: New Billiards Club With $1,000,000.00 to a single winner!
As you can see, Michael Crawhorn IS thequartermile and his plans have changed and that was only since September to November.
Sooooo, why all the deception? Why did he do all those fake posts? Why not a legitimate announcement of his tour? I signed my husband up when he said the 1st one from every state would win free entries into 2 tournaments. Then he said sign up right away for membership with my $100 several times. He was also willing to give myself and another player free entries if we would just send our $100 right away. I may send it in for my husband, but am still not sure.
He sent me a form for medical insurance - a standard form - but nowhere was it written which level was paid for. On that form, it asks for your birthdate and social security number, neither of which I felt comfortable giving someone who had already been deceptive.
Colin is right. For a professional tour, he needs to make sure everything looks professionally done and without spelling errors or typos.
His email address is spelled wrong on the website, for heaven's sakes!
Do you think I should still be wary?
If this enterprise is truly legitimate, then I applaud them. Unlike the IPT that is funded by a billionaire with his own money, EB is sponsored (hopefully!) by independent corporations. The fact that there are so many big-name corporations on board with no knowledge within the industry raises concern in itself. Where are the press releases quoted from the pool magazines that Kodak and Mastercard are sponsoring pool? That would be huge news.
Original interest came from a thread here on AZB:
http://www.azbilliards.com/vbulletin/upload/showthread.php?t=21831
What I found unsettling is the moniker thequartermile asking all these questions, saying he paid the fees, etc. I encourage you to read all his posts.
When I Googled thequartermile and billiards, I got this link: http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/poolandbilliards/message/1501
and it brought up this:
From: "mhcrawhorn" <thequartermile@...>
Date: Wed Sep 7, 2005 7:11 pm
Subject: New Billiards Club With $1,000,000.00 to a single winner!
As you can see, Michael Crawhorn IS thequartermile and his plans have changed and that was only since September to November.
Sooooo, why all the deception? Why did he do all those fake posts? Why not a legitimate announcement of his tour? I signed my husband up when he said the 1st one from every state would win free entries into 2 tournaments. Then he said sign up right away for membership with my $100 several times. He was also willing to give myself and another player free entries if we would just send our $100 right away. I may send it in for my husband, but am still not sure.
He sent me a form for medical insurance - a standard form - but nowhere was it written which level was paid for. On that form, it asks for your birthdate and social security number, neither of which I felt comfortable giving someone who had already been deceptive.
Colin is right. For a professional tour, he needs to make sure everything looks professionally done and without spelling errors or typos.
His email address is spelled wrong on the website, for heaven's sakes!
Do you think I should still be wary?
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rackmsuckr said:
Yes Linda be wary. Ask EBS if there are corporate contacts. If they can't give any check with the different corporate media departments. Hold off on the medical if that's a concern. But if it's going straight to Allstate ???
I'd be careful about the spelling concerns though. Hell, I can't spell worth a shit myself!
I'm not a Pro so I'm not joining......yet. I'll wait around and see what happens and maybe spend a little time trying to look like that guy whose pic Mike Janis posted on another thread!
Terry
Scott,Scott Lee said:Way to go Colin! Nice hatchet job...for somebody on the other side of the world, who has no intention of even playing on this tour. There were legitimate questions asked immediately after this site opened. Mike Janis, myself, and a few others, made inquiries, and were satisfied that this was on the up and up. Mike made a definitive plea to restrain from negative talk...at least for the time being. Yet you continue to badmouth them, if for no other reason, than they don't have a proofreader for things they post on the site. Why don't you crawl back in your hole, and quit complaining about things that don't concern you. The concerns (if there are any) are the right of the people who want to play on this tour, not yours...and they have been addressed...at least enough to satisfy those of us who are going to play. You'd think poolplayers (and you say you are one) would be ecstatic to see mainstream corporate advertisers backing a tour (for the first time in history), for the sport we supposedly love and respect. I say leave them alone, and let them put together what they say they're going to. Complain afterwards, if they don't live up to it...not before!
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
I'm sorry you feel that way about my posts. My concern here was to alert fellow members that I feared they may be getting duped. I hope I'm wrong.
I was not a negative nelly regarding the IPT because I KT is very visible and wouldn't have any interest in making a lousy 50-100k on a public scam. I could also see that KT has a background that gives him a credible chance of success.
Information on the EBS and Michael seems sparse. It's a fair request to know more about the organization. I find it hard to believe a sponsor checked this forum and gave that feedback.
If I'm wrong, that's a shame, but the presentation of the WBS tour so far invites suspicion, and if it cannot survive a few forum doubts / enquiries then it may not be very stable.
I'll be the first to support it and promote it upon evidence of those sponsorships.
Colin
Colin Colenso said:
Colin...My point is this: Nobody getting (unknowingly) duped. Those of us who have investigated, and signed up anyway, know what risks (if any) we're taking. We're adults, and we also don't care if Michael Crawhorn can spell or not. All we're asking you to do is back off, until after this first event in late Feb. If it is not what it's purported to be, you can be certain that those of us who participated, will tell about it. Like Bob said...since you're not playing, BACK OFF, and stop the negative comments.
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
