Explain cues to me please

As you can see, there are opinions up the a$$. Varying opinions at that. Who should you listen to? What should you spend your money on? People who are trying to steer you one way or another feel very strong about their opinions, and they may be trying to educate you, or save you a buck, but when it is all said and done, you're the one who's gonna have to make up your mind. What I think is good for me, and what someone else thinks is good only for themselves. Keep researching and you will find that there is a significant difference between the range of money spent in anything.

The guy I bought my car from plays pool. He stated that he has a cheap J&J. He said he likes it, and uses it for league. He said he compared it to one of the other player's cues which was a Shurtz Cue that Gabe's dad made for him. Knowing that I make cues, the fella kept mentioning that it doesn't really matter what a cue has in it, or who made it, as long as it looks decent and it plays to his liking. In a way, he was insulting my craft trying to let it be known that if it looks good on the outside and it appears to be solid, than you are better off that paying in upwards of a thousand for something with ivory in it, or made by a custom maker.

That's true......... but only on the surface. That shallow line of thinking has an end to it........somewhere.... You have to dig deeper to find out what that difference is, and what it means to you. There is an advanced level of thinking to any craft and there is a higher level of skill put in some of the higher dollar stuff. Whether or not that means anything to you is up to you.

Those who pay the extra money, do so because they understand and it brings them a higher level of satisfaction........ and also because they can....... I personally will pay extra for something I believe is better, and will pay something extra on top of that just to have a guarantee that it won't fall apart in the future. That's just me though. Some will take a risk to maybe get something quality, and maybe not, and hope that it will not fall apart, and probably because they can't afford it.

People who normally look for the cheap, hundred dollar cues, seek the same, low quality bargain in everything else, thinking that they can just get by with not having to pay as much. There are exceptions to that.

Fine art is a bit snooty to some, or is the norm to others. What makes the difference is what you want to understand about life, and your perspective in living it. What I have found in my short years on this wonderful earth, is, normally, the best is the most expensivist... ;) now, that's gotta mean something..... right?
 
30 years ago we said anything more than $ 100 cue was just art work. Today I think you must raise that price to $ 500 to cover inflation. However anything over $ 500 starts to become a phallic symbol of mine is bigger than yours and has nothing to do with how good they play.
 
eddieindetroit said:
You may or may not ever play with a Southwest cue so I will explain why people wait years for one.
Hype.

A fad. A clever marketing strategy which a product is advertized as the thing everyone must have, to the point where people begin to feel they need to consume it.

After the first $150-a pool cue is all Hype.
Don't buy into it. Just Practice.

Eddie
Click to expand...

Not everyone believes this. I owned two and it had nothing to do with hype. I had mine long before it became fashionable to have one. All the cues I've owned were bought based on playability.
 
Last edited:
I play two nights a week in a local tournament against some VERY good players, many are master level players. On any given night, the room is full of custom cues from a lot of different makers up to and including Southwest. For the past few months, the majority of the money has been carried out the door by a player using a one piece house cue. Recently, while playing a ring game with him, I asked him about playing with a house cue and his reply was..... "All I need is straight lumber with a good tip shaped to my liking....... It ain't the arrow, it's the archer. "
 
Okay, you can get a good, custom made, not fancy cue from a custom cue maker for about $500.00 <-- The cost to produce a 'good quality' cue with a good joint, solid butt, and aged solid wood shaft.

Beyond the $500.00 entry price, you're paying for .... I don't want to call them 'frills', but .... Ringwork, exotic woods, inlays, ivory, wraps, etc. etc. etc.

You should be able to buy "the finest playing cue" from an established, reputable cue maker for about $500.00.

IMHO, of course.
 
8Ball48043 said:
Okay, you can get a good, custom made, not fancy cue from a custom cue maker for about $500.00 <-- The cost to produce a 'good quality' cue with a good joint, solid butt, and aged solid wood shaft.

Beyond the $500.00 entry price, you're paying for .... I don't want to call them 'frills', but .... Ringwork, exotic woods, inlays, ivory, wraps, etc. etc. etc.

You should be able to buy "the finest playing cue" from an established, reputable cue maker for about $500.00.

IMHO, of course.
Click to expand...

Precisely, that's why my player is a Diviney wrapless with G10 pin and OB1. Love the feel and balance. It feels good in my hands and when I drop down over a shot, I can't see fancy ringwork or how many inlays it has. All the benefits of a custom without the hefty price tag.
 
gromulan said:
Cues are 100% personal preference. Efren played for years with a $15 cue that was made in Taiwan and did things no one had ever seen before. Stephen Hendry won more than $15 million playing with a one-piece cue that was worth about $50 (though he did pay a £20,000 reward to get it back once when it was stolen). Most high-end cues are expensive solely because of the 'artwork' and the cuemaker's reputation. They make all kinds of claims about how their cue has more 'playability' than lower-end products but the bottom line is that a cue is just a hunk of wood with a piece of leather glued on the end. The rest is all in the eye of the beholder.
If you're looking to buy a cue, just buy something from a reputable company for somewhere in the $4-500 range and just stick with it forever. Eventually your game will adjust itself to the cue and it will be like an extension of your arm.
Click to expand...

I really beg to differ with you on that. If you think that then go buy an Eason cue and then tell me if it's just some wood with a tip glued on and buy a Searing or other off the scale high end cue and tell me what you think.
 
JB Cases said:
Cuemaker A charges $1000 for his cue and cuemaker B charges $100.


You are mostly right. It's hard to buy a "bad" cue these days and most production cues are pretty damn good..


How it feels to you. All other things being equal if the $100 cue and the $1000 cue both feel the same to you then the $1000 cue is no better.


At the end of the day though it's all about whether you like it or not. If you are second guessing your equipment then maybe you need to change your equipment or get in tune with it.
Click to expand...


John, you make a pretty good case here for buying the $100 cue. After all, even if it doesn't hold up as long as the $1000 cue, you could buy 10 of them over the course of your lifetime as opposed to 1 of the $1000 cues. That being said, I would like to say that I actually own a $1000 cue ($1,200 if you count the LD shaft). I also own several cues that I paid no more than $27 apiece for. They reside in my home wall-rack. I have had the cheapo cues for about 3 years now and all three are still in great condition (no quality issues at all). I use them regularly when playing at the house. I have run many a rack with them. They do hit different and I do prefer the hit of my more expensive cues though. All I am saying is that if a beginner/low level player wanted to get their first cue just to have one they can call their own, I see no reason why a cheaper cue couldn't serve them well. Heck, we all know that anybody that sticks with the game for any length of time is gonna eventually get a nicer cue, even if they start out with a mid-range costing cue. It's just the way we pool-lovers roll :grin:!!!

There IS definitely a "sense of pride" you get though when you finally acquire and use that ONE cue you've been wanting so long for.

I'm not sure what the OP had in mind with this post. If he is struggling with a decision to buy a cheap or expensive cue, I would say to him to get the best cue that you can reasonably afford. And if he could try it out before he bought it, more power to him. I'd say to try out as many cues as he possibly can (and could afford).

Maniac
 
8up said:
Ok $100 cue 19oz straight apart and together $1000 cue 19oz straight apart and together. Other than art work or a name and price what is the difference?

If your an average bar room player I doubt either cue would make a difference in your playing, am I wrong?

How about a mid level player?

If your a Pro would it make a difference?

What makes one straight cue better than another?
Click to expand...

I wrote a brochure on this issue that we have in our room:

Do I Need to Buy a Cue?

The short answer is NO.

Equipment is less important in pool than it is in car racing, golf, skiing, bicycle racing, or cooking.

One consequence is you can’t buy a better pool game. More importantly though, you don’t need to buy a better pool game.

How Do I Pick a Cue Off the Wall?

Pool cues provided by the establishment are called HOUSE CUES. The main difference between a house cue and an individually owned cue is that the house cue doesn’t come apart.

House cues are all 58 inches long, give or take an inch, and weigh 19 oz, give or take an ounce or two.

The importance of the weight, the length, the balance, and even whether the cue is straight pales in comparison to one criterion: the condition of the leather tip.

Choose a cue for which the tip is not mushroomed like a muffin top. The tip should have the curvature of a nickel.

Why Do People Buy Cues?

One reason is players value consistency
The weight, the balance (distribution of weight), the diameter at the tip, the taper (details of the way the width grows for the first 20 inches or so from the tip), the shape and hardness of the tip, the material the back hand grips (e.g., linen or leather or wood), the acoustic properties of the wood, the stiffness of the shaft (resistance to bending), and how rapidly those vibrations are dampened all contribute to subtle differences in the way different cues feel to the player. Many of these properties contribute to what is called the hit of a cue.

By playing with the same cue every time, a player becomes accustomed to the feedback provided by that cue-the sound and the energy transmitted to the rear hand-and uses this in the learning process.

A second reason is cueball squirt
When a cue strikes a cueball to the right or left of center, the cueball travels away spinning to the right or the left. But there’s a second, undesirable, effect as well. The cueball angles off a small amount opposite the direction of the sidespin. This is called squirt (or cueball deflection) and a player shooting with sidespin must compensate his or her aim for this. The amount of squirt depends on the cue. A consistent cue means consistent aim compensation. Some cues are specifically designed to reduce squirt.

The third reason is most elusive
A player’s cue is the link between past, present, and future at the pool table. It’s been there for the fear and the despair as well as for the joy, the elation, and the pride. Players who have had the experience of feeling in that trance-like state called “the zone” have been known to describe their cue as feeling like an extension to their arm. You may notice a player talking about his cue sometimes like he would talk of an infant child, other times like he would talk of an old army buddy, and, unfortunately, other times like he would talk of the most treacherous of traitors.
How Do I Choose a Cue to Buy?

Because personal preference is key, you must hit with a cue before you buy it. We recommend avoiding both the cheapest cues and the most expensive cues. Low-end cues use ramin wood for the shaft rather than quality maple. You will be disappointed with this. And in a couple years you’ll have a better idea of what you like, so thoughts of a more expensive cue should wait until then.

A price range of about $120 – $500 is about right for your first cue. Beyond that you’re mostly paying for art or for the work of a particularly reputable cuemaker.

While the shafts (front ends) of nearly all quality cues are made of maple, the butts are made from many different beautiful and exotic woods that are spliced together or inlayed into one another. Some of the more common woods are the highly figured birdseye maple, rich black ebony from Africa or even Asia, the dark and beautiful cocobola or the lighter bocote from Central America, purple heart from Central or South America or the nearly white hardwood holly.
 
Craig Fales said:
I really beg to differ with you on that. If you think that then go buy an Eason cue and then tell me if it's just some wood with a tip glued on and buy a Searing or other off the scale high end cue and tell me what you think.
Click to expand...

This is a fact. There are plenty of pool players that wouldn't be ABLE to tell much difference between the hit of a $30 Rage cue and $4,000 Southwest cue. It's like stereo equipment. Some systems sound clarity is sharper than many people can differentiate. They would be just as well off buying the cheaper 400-watt system as opposed to the 1,600-watt mega-system. Anything better would just be a total waste of their money. Same is true in pool cues. Some people (I think I may fall in this category somewhat) just play and never really analyze what is going on in their hand/arm. Wouldn't know a 'bushka from a Minnesota Fats cue. These types of pool players would be wasting their money on an expensive cue, unless of course they only wanted it for the "artwork".

Maniac
 
mikepage said:
How Do I Pick a Cue Off the Wall?

Pool cues provided by the establishment are called HOUSE CUES.
Click to expand...

Dings, no tips/crappy tips, warped, cracked ferrules, no bumpers, etc. are all good reasons to own your own cue, even if it just a cheap one, IMO.

Maniac
 
Hi there,

I think comparing different makers/manufacturers here is difficult to do. Each maker or company has their own price points for varying reasons.

My suggestion is to take a manufacturer who offers cues at both the $100 and $1000 (and all prices in between) price points. The first that comes to mind is Viking. I've never owned a Viking cue, but I have shot with several. I had a friend in college who owned the cheapest cue in thier line. He paid $120 dollars for it. That cue shot the same as the $1200 Viking cue that I once got to take for a test run. The difference in price here was in the points and inlay work. Same shaft material. Same joint. Same feel.

My opinion is that if you are in this hobby and know you are going to stay in it for a while then buy the most expensive cue you are comfortable with and that you really like. If $100 is what you can afford then find the best $100 cue you can find and enjoy it. Do your homework, take some for some test runs and find what feels best to you.

Personally, I play just as good (or bad depending on how you look at it) with a house cue as I do with my daily player. I stop by my local hall all the time just to kill an hour or so and I don't always have my cue with me. I don't roll the house cues on the table or anything. I eyeball the tip and shaft diameter and then take the thing and just play.

Good luck in your search-

J.
 
8up said:
Ok $100 cue 19oz straight apart and together $1000 cue 19oz straight apart and together. Other than art work or a name and price what is the difference?
Click to expand...

1. Looks.

2. Smoothness of the shaft. A dented, dirty shaft feels bad when you're taking your practice strokes. Sometimes it gets really sticky. This may affect your shooting. In fact, this may be just as important as crooked-vs-straight.

3. The impression you give others.

4. Structural Integrity - cheap cues might warp more easily.

5. Deflection - some sticks (well, mostly shafts) are designed to absorb vibration differently, which slightly changes how the cue ball reacts when you put sidespin on it. The idea is that these shafts make the ball travel straighter off the tip. It already travels 'pretty straight' with any stick, but the good shafts make it almost perfectly straight. That means you can aim the shot without worry about how your sidespin is affecting the line of aim.


If your an average bar room player I doubt either cue would make a difference in your playing, am I wrong? How about a mid level player?
Click to expand...

In one night of shooting, almost nothing makes a big difference. Over many nights of shooting, the small flaws in the crappier stick might amount to 5 or 10 shots you missed that you otherwise would have made. Mostly it's the indian, not the arrow... and it's as much a feel thing as it is the technology or craftsmanship.

If your a Pro would it make a difference?
Click to expand...

He could still beat everyone in the local pool hall. But could he beat another pro at the same level if he had to give up a fairly nice stick for an inexpensive one? Maybe not. Just a single screwup (missed ball or messed up position) at pro level can cost the player a set. And having a cheap cue may cause him to miss 1 ball he otherwise wouldn't. If nothing else he'd have a minor psychological disadvantage, unless he's efren and doesn't care about shooting with a cheap cue.
 
Craig Fales said:
I really beg to differ with you on that. If you think that then go buy an Eason cue and then tell me if it's just some wood with a tip glued on and buy a Searing or other off the scale high end cue and tell me what you think.
Click to expand...

I have. I've hit balls with cues like Black Boar, Paul Mottey, Joss West, Southwest, Bill McDaniel, Keith Josey and Gina. They all hit great. Not a single one of them hits any better than the other though - and certainly none of them hit any 'better' than a $400 production cue, or even a $10 rack cue.

Here's a list of great players and their cues. See any expensive ones in the list?

Johnny Archer - scorpion (but used a Schon for years)
Alex Pagulayan - Schon (with predator shaft)
Earl Strickland - Gulyassey (but won 3 world titles and 6 US Opens with a Cuetec)
Shane van Boening - Cuetec
Allison Fisher - Cuetec
Jim Rempe - Meucci
Stephen Hendry - John Parris (but used a PowerGlide one-piece for years)
Ronnie O'Sullivan - John Parris (worth about $800)
 
Thank you everyone for the replies. I am going to make a 2nd post explaining more of why I asked the question. "Explain cues to me please part 2"
 
Ball Banger said:
30 years ago we said anything more than $ 100 cue was just art work. Today I think you must raise that price to $ 500 to cover inflation. However anything over $ 500 starts to become a phallic symbol of mine is bigger than yours and has nothing to do with how good they play.
Click to expand...

Not totally sure I agree. You "can" find a great hitting $500 cue no doubt, but if a person likes the specific feel of a Southwest, which has a very unique feel that has gone on to make their cues highly desirable, even amoungst many professionals, you are not going to get that exact Southwest feel for $500.

The old adage that a pro will beat a hacker with a warped cue off the rack with a glazed tip is true. But that is a illogical arguement, the more practical example is putting a top pro with that warped cue and glazed tip into a race to 100 10-ball against another top pro shooting with his own perfectly straight cue with a perfectly shaped moori. The guy with the warped cue and glazed tip is doomed if the players are close to equal normally. When you get close to the exact same level of skill the cue being a great hitting instrument with perfect feel for each player does matter.

If I go to the pub and play some bar hack for $5 a game I will use a bar stick and beat him. If I get into a match with someone about at my level I want my shooter.

In the SVB vs Pagulayan match comming up if SVB were able to pick the crappiest cue off the rack and force Pagulayan to shoot with that, while SVB shoots with his primary shooter which he hand picked and keeps exactly to his specifications, Pagulayan is going to get destroyed in a match like that.

You can find some pretty great cues at $500, you can find some pretty lousy cues that cost $1000, but you can find $1000 that will be better built and hit better then any $500 cue out there.

Cues are alot like cars, a Toyota and a Lexus are both cars, they both do the basic job of moving people between point A and B, but there are alot of differences in the journey, and on that rare occasion where a guy slams the breaks in front of you, that rare occasion where you are cornering at speed, the comfort you in during a 6 hour trip in either car, the Lexus is going to at certain times prove why it is worth twice as much as the Toyota.

A person could easily put Mario Andretti into a Nissan 350 Z and me into a Formula 1 car and we could both do a lap around a race track, he would undoubtably beat me. But now put Mario Andretti into that 350 Z again and have Dale Earnhart now race the Formula 1 car instead of me, now Mario gets owned. When you get two people of closer to equal skill the effectiveness of the equippment matters.

Federer is not using a $50 racket, he is using a racket that costs $100's of dollars, is made out of a material that is super light and a design that has been tested like crazy to create the perfect results in the swing of a tennis racket. He could smoke me on a tennis court using a racketball racket, he would get drilled by Nadal if he tried playing him with anything but the peak equippment he is used to.
 
Last edited:
Last edited:
eddieindetroit said:
After the first $150-a pool cue is all Hype.

Eddie
Click to expand...

I'll agree that a high dollar cue won't make you a good player, but a nice cue will help you become a better player.

Find out what feels good to you, ex. weight, shaft size, type of tip, balance and then get a cue that feels good with the specs you like and then practice. Learn about deflection or buy a LD shaft and you'll be on your way.

James
 
A subcompact hatchback will get you there on time just like a Luxury sedan would. Does that mean that anything more expensive than the cheapest thing available is a waste of money?

I guess that is true for some. Why else would they ask the question?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top