Explain This to Me...

[jeffj2h]

I have a 27yo Helmstetter that has served me quite well....not a cue snob.

Hey, I have a 26 year old Helmstetter! I flirted a few years ago with getting a custom cue and decided it was too much of a hassle. So I changed out the warped shaft with an OB Classic and it's great.

Regarding flippers, the cue makers should simply charge what the market will bear. It makes no sense to sell a cue for $2000 if plenty of people are willing to pay $3000. Just charge $3000. I doubt these custom cue makers are living like Bill Gates; they should be paid for the value they deliver as opposed to charging artificially low prices.

 

[ridewiththewind]

I'm in the service industry as well, and in no way can I keep up with the amont of customers on my waiting list, somewhere in the neighbourhood of about 800 or so. If I lose someone on that waiting list...I'll never onow it because at a moments notice...someone else is right there to replace the ones I've lost because of whatever reason. Some of the cue makers are in the same boat I'm in, and speaking for myself here...I'm not taking on new people to teach my trade to just so someone can get their table worked on by someone I taught....it takez way to damn long to teach someone how to do what I do, and I still don't have a guarantee that they won't screw the jobs up working on their own....so I'd imagine the cue makers feel the same way as I do when it comes to hiring extra help in order to lessen the work load a little so that you might get you custom made cue a little earlier that expected....only to complain about something to do with the cue once you do receive it...LOL

I don't complain about my cues....probably because I know exactly what I want in a cue, what works for me....and that is what I get, at a fair price. No disappointments. I cannot think of a maker that has an ill thing to say about me, and actually some of us are friends...as I will return for another cue from them at some point. They know how to run their businesses well, lack the arrogance that some makers, and yourself, exhibit concerning their customers, and treat me like I am valued. This is as it should be. Not this......'I'm so damn good, it doesn't matter if someone leaves my list, because there is just another poor old sod chomping at the bit to get on it.'

Well, poor old sods talk to one another, and they are fed up with being treated poorly when it's THEIR money buying your service.

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

About the only thing that will guarantee you anything is a pre paid funeral package.
And then you are at the mercy, so to speak of an honest funeral director.

When my father passed, the director kept saying things to me, and I figured, ok, here comes the bite for extra. The guy couldn't give me enuff free stuff, upgrades, and kept saying that they had made enuff money on my Fathers initial investment and this is how the pre paid packages worked.

I was shocked and pleased to say the least.

 

[realkingcobra]

I don't complain about my cues....probably because I know exactly what I want in a cue, what works for me....and that is what I get, at a fair price. No disappointments. I cannot think of a maker that has an ill thing to say about me, and actually some of us are friends...as I will return for another cue from them at some point. They know how to run their businesses well, lack the arrogance that some makers, and yourself, exhibit concerning their customers, and treat me like I am valued. This is as it should be. Not this......'I'm so damn good, it doesn't matter if someone leaves my list, because there is just another poor old sod chomping at the bit to get on it.'

Well, poor old sods talk to one another, and they are fed up with being treated poorly when it's THEIR money buying your service.

And to what do you tell all those on a waiting list before you....that YOUR money is worth more than theirs, and that you should be able to get what you want...at a sooner date than the rest on that waiting list....or maybe that the service provider should streamline their business a little better in order to fit you in...as you're a PAYING customer...what does that make everyone else on that list ahead of you...chumps?

 

[YubaCushion]

Question...did you know about the cue makers back log before placing your order? Something else to think about...no one likes eating at an empty restaurant. And, if a faster return for you investment in a cue is important to you, why on earth would you be thinking about ordering a custom made cue, instead of just going out and buying a production made cue? Sometimes...the best someone has to offer...is just not found at Walmart on the shelf just waiting on you to walk by and so you can decide if you want to but it or not

Answer... You don't know until you place one. There are a lot of elite places to eat that anyone can get into. If you buy a cue as an investment, that's sad.

 

[realkingcobra]

There are a lot of elite places to eat that anyone can get into. If you buy a cue as an investment, that's sad.

I couldn't agree with you more I've had my cue for the last 33 years, and it's still a great cue...but I'd never invest in a cue based on it being worth more someday...because if I'm not playing with it...it's not worth anything to me

 

[jeffj2h]

In TAR podcast #44, Justin talks about Bob Loveless knives and compares custom knives to the custom cue industry. Bob's wait list: 25 years...

http://youtu.be/iMJDB6r7ABc?t=32m54s

 

[01rkclassic]

I agree.

The best steak I have ever eaten in my life was at Mancy's Steakhouse in Toledo, Oh. It was the most perfectly aged and cooked beef ever. My fork cut this steak, a knife was not needed. But, I never went back and never will. If that maitre d' would have reached across my table and the $100 plus anniversary dinner to bark out orders to bus boys one more time, I would have given her a shot to the ribs.

Talk about brand loyalists, $22,000 for a $16,000 MSRP Harley Softail is outlandish. People waited two years for that while being treated like shit. By the way, it was a Toledo HD dealer's attitude that drove me away from Harley.

I wonder what that Heritage Softail Classic is worth today? :grin:

More than a Honda!:thumbup:

>>>Art used to ride Honda's

 

[ridewiththewind]

And to what do you tell all those on a waiting list before you....that YOUR money is worth more than theirs, and that you should be able to get what you want...at a sooner date than the rest on that waiting list....or maybe that the service provider should streamline their business a little better in order to fit you in...as you're a PAYING customer...what does that make everyone else on that list ahead of you...chumps?

Obviously you did not read the entire thread...I got on a list a very long time ago...over 10 years ago now. Gave up the ghost on it at around 5 years. I do not wish to get back on, and am okay about not having the cue I wanted. Since then, I have worked with other makers, who treated me very well. They didn't blow a bunch of sunshine up my backside, were straightforward with me in our discussions, communicated extremely well, and since it seems like whenever I order a custom, they were due to arrive around SBE, have been with a couple of weeks within the quoted delivery date. Their prices were fair, and above all, I felt valued as a customer! They didn't treat me as if they were doing me a favor by taking my money and providing me a service that they were offering anyways.

I like that even after years of dealing with them, a maker keeps track of ALL their customers, and manages to hand write out Christmas cards every year!! Yes, it makes me feel special, and it takes so little real effort.

 

[01rkclassic]

I like that even after years of dealing with them, a maker keeps track of ALL their customers, and manages to hand write out Christmas cards every year!! Yes, it makes me feel special, and it takes so little real effort.

You should name the maker and give them some credit Lisa...Josey?

 

[realkingcobra]

You should name the maker and give them some credit Lisa...Josey?

I couldn't agree more

 

[realkingcobra]

Obviously you did not read the entire thread...I got on a list a very long time ago...over 10 years ago now. Gave up the ghost on it at around 5 years. I do not wish to get back on, and am okay about not having the cue I wanted. Since then, I have worked with other makers, who treated me very well. They didn't blow a bunch of sunshine up my backside, were straightforward with me in our discussions, communicated extremely well, and since it seems like whenever I order a custom, they were due to arrive around SBE, have been with a couple of weeks within the quoted delivery date. Their prices were fair, and above all, I felt valued as a customer! They didn't treat me as if they were doing me a favor by taking my money and providing me a service that they were offering anyways.

I like that even after years of dealing with them, a maker keeps track of ALL their customers, and manages to hand write out Christmas cards every year!! Yes, it makes me feel special, and it takes so little real effort.

Yes, I read it all, and I'm not trying to bust your backside and I do agree with you...to some extent. The way to fight the long ass waiting list...is to demand other competition step up to the plate and produce as well as, or even better would be great...products of their own...that way customers have a choice...and CAN decide to send their money in other directions. Simply trying to use your money to control the situation with an IN DEMAND cue maker is a waste of time in an effort to get better service. When the competion steps up to the plate and challenges the IN DEMAND cue makers with products as equal to what the IN DEMAND cue makers are producing...then you'll have a change in the market place, but until then...the best...are going to remain the best, and that means in demand...by others like you.

 

[scratchs]

I'm in the service industry as well, and in no way can I keep up with the amont of customers on my waiting list, somewhere in the neighbourhood of about 800 or so. If I lose someone on that waiting list...I'll never onow it because at a moments notice...someone else is right there to replace the ones I've lost because of whatever reason. Some of the cue makers are in the same boat I'm in, and speaking for myself here...I'm not taking on new people to teach my trade to just so someone can get their table worked on by someone I taught....it takez way to damn long to teach someone how to do what I do, and I still don't have a guarantee that they won't screw the jobs up working on their own....so I'd imagine the cue makers feel the same way as I do when it comes to hiring extra help in order to lessen the work load a little so that you might get you custom made cue a little earlier that expected....only to complain about something to do with the cue once you do receive it...LOL

Get over yourself dude...

 

[classiccues]

Think about it this way..

List 5-10 years... you don't like the cue = profit

List 5-6 months... you don't like the cue = loss

That alone, makes the amount of cuemaker tolerance, a great deal more palatable.

JV

 

[realkingcobra]

Get over yourself dude...

Really?...what am I suppose to get over...dude?

 

[ridewiththewind]

You should name the maker and give them some credit Lisa...Josey?

Yes. Keith and Sherri Josey are some of the nicest people you could ever want to deal with. Keith works his magic in the shop, and Sherri works her magic with the customers...they work ridiculously well with one another. They both talk straight with the customer, and are upfront with what can and cannot be done with regards to budget and timeframes. They really care about their customers, and it shows.

But there are are other great makers out there that value their customers. The Joseys are but one gleaming example. Another is Paul Allers. Again, straightforward, no BS...communicates well. Makes a real nice playing cue...especially if you like 60" cues. Is well regarded in this region, where he is more well known. Fair pricing. I would deal with him again, no problem...just as I would the Joseys.

The last one I'll leave unidentified...because I honestly don't think he needs the added work. Building cues is not his main gig...and his family is very important to him. But he lets you know that out of the gate. IMHO...his work is on par with some of the Top Tier boys, with playability to match. Treated me right, and if the opportunity arose again, I wouldn't hesitate.

These are all fine examples of makers that get it right...across the board.

 

[YubaCushion]

Yes, I read it all, and I'm not trying to bust your backside and I do agree with you...to some extent. The way to fight the long ass waiting list...is to demand other competition step up to the plate and produce as well as, or even better would be great...products of their own...that way customers have a choice...and CAN decide to send their money in other directions. Simply trying to use your money to control the situation with an IN DEMAND cue maker is a waste of time in an effort to get better service. When the competion steps up to the plate and challenges the IN DEMAND cue makers with products as equal to what the IN DEMAND cue makers are producing...then you'll have a change in the market place, but until then...the best...are going to remain the best, and that means in demand...by others like you.

The only aspect of cue making that needs stepping up is the inlays. Also known as cnc work. The older guys I'm guessing are not interested at this point of their career in learning code and investing in programs. The younger guys will pick it up and fine inlay work won't be that special with new technology. As for splicing, veneer, and ring work there's plenty of primo work out there that doesn't take a five year wait to own.

 

[mia]

And yes....early in the last decade, I was on a maker's list. I got 'lost' not once, but twice. I think the maker does amazing work...truly. But when it became more about me being picked as a project to accept, as opposed to me picking the maker for a project...I made the decision to move on. It's my hard earned dollars....I'm not gonna have someone make me feel special because they decided to accept them.

Be honest here Lisa.

I assume the maker you're alluding to above is Dennis Searing, correct? And did you really move on because you got lost not once but twice OR because you didn't have the money anymore and you KNEW you'd never see that cue either way???

Don't get me wrong. I too am on Dennis' "list" and I know damn well that I'll never see that cue. But why did you get on that list in the first place??? Was it because you'd played with so many and loved them or... Because "it's a Searing!" And if you still had the money, you'd still be on the list.

Supply and demand Lisa. When someone makes something of value... something sought after... THEY as the maker (NOT you as the buyer) have the power. They can and often do do what they want. Why do people put up with it? Because in the end, they want to benefit. Whether the benefit comes in the form of bragging rights or profit from a flip. Either way, buyers want to benefit. So who says only the buyer can benefit? Why not the maker too? No matter how you slice it, as the buyer you're not "working with" a cuemaker. You give them money and an idea. In the end, you get a product. Period. There's this foolish notion amongst cue buyers that they're "involved" in the process and thus... they should have more rights as a buyer. When you walk into a car dealership looking for a black Honda, will the dealer let you give him design specs to relay back to Japan? No. He'd laugh at you. You want what they have. Thus, you pay or you go elsewhere. So why as a cue BUYER, one who wants what someone else does, should you have all the power???

You've chosen the makers you have not because of their integrity because hell. You don't known if they have that or not until AFTER you signed up. Instead, you chose them either due to budget reasons, proximity to you, or 'perceived' value. AND, lack of a wait. Correct?

 

[realkingcobra]

The only aspect of cue making that needs stepping up is the inlays. Also known as cnc work. The older guys I'm guessing are not interested at this point of their career in learning code and investing in programs. The younger guys will pick it up and fine inlay work won't be that special with new technology. As for splicing, veneer, and ring work there's plenty of primo work out there that doesn't take a five year wait to own.

Way back when...there were only a few top quality cue makers to choose from for a custom cue...life was much easier. Today, it seams like there are 1,000's of cue makers all building cues, and all wanting top dollar for their cues as well, and they seem to be poping up everyday somewhere else.

 

[YubaCushion]

Think about it this way..

List 5-10 years... you don't like the cue = profit

List 5-6 months... you don't like the cue = loss

That alone, makes the amount of cuemaker tolerance, a great deal more palatable.

JV

Waiting 5-10 years for a cue you "may not like?"= stupid.