Extreme Outside English - Do you use it?

Colin Colenso said:
I agree. It often means a shot can be played softer to get to the same position. On those type of shots, more than 3/8 tip of outside can start messing with the widening throw, so I try to avoid going much beyond the gearing point.
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Do you think tha5 is the reason guys like Jimmy Reid, Buddy Hall, and Mike Sigel have said low/outside is the most often used/preferred shot in pool?
 
(((Satori))) said:
Do you think tha5 is the reason guys like Jimmy Reid, Buddy Hall, and Mike Sigel have said low/outside is the most often used/preferred shot in pool?
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I think this, and that it helps to compensate for hitting pots too thick, which is a common tendency. Both swerve and throw tend to widen the cut angle on these shots.
 
(((Satori))) said:
Do you think tha5 is the reason guys like Jimmy Reid, Buddy Hall, and Mike Sigel have said low/outside is the most often used/preferred shot in pool?
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I think it's because low outside is usually running English into the nearest rail, and because so many shots are into corner pockets with the CB near center table - it's easiest to reach most of the table from there with low outside.

pj
chgo
 
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Patrick Johnson said:
I think it's because low outside is usually running English into the nearest rail, and because so many shots are into corner pockets with the CB near center table - it's easiest to reach most of the table from there with low outside.

pj
chgo
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Good point! Though one regular here may disagree. :wink:
 
Patrick Johnson said:
I think it's because low outside is usually running English into the nearest rail, and because so many shots are into corner pockets with the CB near center table - it's easiest to reach most of the table from there with low outside.

pj
chgo
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That is a shot that comes up often but in most cases position from there can be obtained with more draw or a firmer stroke staying on center axis creating a greater angle going into the rail but often times you will see the great players opt for outside in order to hit the shot softer.

Kind of like hitting a stop shot... instead of hitting it hard with a close to centerball hit they prefer a softer hit with a little low in most cases.
 
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(((Satori))) said:
That is a shot that comes up often but in most cases position from there can be obtained with more draw or a firmer stroke staying on center axis creating a greater angle going into the rail but often times you will see the great players opt for outside in order to hit the shot softer.

Kind of like hitting a stop shot... instead of hitting it hard with a close to centerball hit they prefer a softer hit with a little low in most cases.
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Slow, low and outside is a useful but tricky shot to learn - you have to learn to gauge the swerve.

For stop shots I like to hit the same place on the CB and vary the stroke speed for different distances - but you also need to be able to hit stun shots hard when that's called for. *&^%ing pool!

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Slow, low and outside is a useful but tricky shot to learn - you have to learn to gauge the swerve.

For stop shots I like to hit the same place on the CB and vary the stroke speed for different distances - but you also need to be able to hit stun shots hard when that's called for. *&^%ing pool!

pj
chgo
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It makes sense to me to control the speed you want with varying cueing positions. For example sometimes you need a firmer hit to avoid a roll off due to bad conditions while other times you need to increase the margin of error by slowing the objectballs travel speed down.
 
Stun Draw and Stun Follow

Patrick Johnson said:
Slow, low and outside is a useful but tricky shot to learn - you have to learn to gauge the swerve.

For stop shots I like to hit the same place on the CB and vary the stroke speed for different distances - but you also need to be able to hit stun shots hard when that's called for. *&^%ing pool!

pj
chgo
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Stun draw and follow are some really good things to play with although if you don't get the stun stroke or put too much English on you can get some surprises.

Stun draw and Stun follow are very useful in One Pocket because you control the amount of cue ball movement.

There are some great youtubes from Academy of the Cueing Arts that show how to accomplish this.
 
I always tell learning players that they need to be able to play all over the cueball, but when they can master the variations of stun with different amounts sidespin and speeds, it gives them a good positional-playing repertoire.

It's nice to avoid bending the cueball before contacting cushions with combined English on alot of shots because it's so easy to get out of line considering the number of variables in play. Stun with spins eliminates some variables.

Look at some of the seemingly simple shots that even pros get out of line on after executing. It's frequently some sort of combined English shot with a bending cueball.
 
Colin Colenso said:
While I hit with extreme inside english quite often, that is a tip or more offset, it's quite rare that I come across shots that require heavy outside english.

Some players tend to use a reasonable amount of OE on shots with draw to hold an angle on a cut, but in these cases, what you may gain in english off the rail is lost in draw. For those shots, low draw with about 1/2 tip of OE is usually sufficient.

Below I'll attach 3 examples of shots which I play on occasion that require heavy outside english. Perhaps some of you can think of other examples where heavy OE is required.

Colin
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I've never even thought about shot #1 for position, but now that I see it, I like the options it gives a player. It's like a reverse "around the world" shot. Good post.

I try not to use extreme anything anymore. On shot #1, I probably would have just gone 1 rail and bump into and through one of the OB's , but I do like your option too.
 
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not to state the obvious, but if youve never played carom/3C, you'll never appreciate the use of extreme english. when I finally learned to hit a few, I did it by realizing how much extreme english can be useful. ofcurse on a heated table is easier, but I can see how extreme english can help get position on the next shot. maybe to not run into a ball, to avoid the side pocket if the stun is not there. it can definelty come up. thats pool.
 
LAlouie said:
When it's needed, it's needed. There are an infinite number of reasons to use extreme english just as there are an infinite number of shots to play in any given time. There's no point in listing them.
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your avatar is fukin with my eyes. :angry: my real eyes, not my avatar eyes.
 
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TATE said:
I've never even thought about shot #1 for position, but now that I see it, I like the options it gives a player. It's like a reverse "around the world" shot. Good post.

I try not to use extreme anything anymore. On shot #1, I probably would have just gone 1 rail and bump into and through one of the OB's , but I do like your option too.
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I was trying to block that option off with my placing of balls. LOL

Hope you have a go at the shot Tate. It creates more run than attempting a similar path with more draw and less outside. If the rails are grippy, the OB can rocket around around the table.
 
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trinacria said:
not to state the obvious, but if youve never played carom/3C, you'll never appreciate the use of extreme english. when I finally learned to hit a few, I did it by realizing how much extreme english can be useful. ofcurse on a heated table is easier, but I can see how extreme english can help get position on the next shot. maybe to not run into a ball, to avoid the side pocket if the stun is not there. it can definelty come up. thats pool.
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I agree. I haven't played much 3 Cushion, but I play a version of rotation pool where the CB must come off minimum 2 rails, so I play a fair bit of similar patterns.

I estimate heavy running english, doubling two rails around a corner pocket, reduces path direction variation by about 80%. That is, the angle of initial incidence, to the angle of reflection after reflecting off the second rail.

So if you know the patterns for the various paths, shots have about 4 times the margin for error than a no rail carom. And if you're a bit off on your pattern knowledge, there is still a significant margin for error.

I'll dub it the Doubling Running English Quadruple Accuracy System (DREQAS).:wink:
 
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