EYE PATTERN “Best Practices” … Cue Ball or Object Ball Focus Last?

Uh oh must be the? Multiple sides. Like The movie Multiplicity
Slight Aim
Steady Plan
Put it In
Oooops it's
Steady Plan
Slight Aim
Put it In.
The first must be from the Ready Shoot Aim faction Freaking Freudian anyway.
 
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The examples of distance visions that Dr. Dave gives in the video (around 7:10) are: basketball, bowling, baseball pitching, horseshoes, and darts. I would argue that all of these examples are fundamentally different from pool. In these sports you are moving the ball, horseshoe or dart with your hand. In pool and other sports (golf, baseball hitting), you are moving the ball with an instrument (the pool cue, golf club, or bat). In golf and baseball, you are instructed to keep your eye on the ball—not the fairway or the fence. In these sports you are, in some sense, “throwing” the club or the bat. In pool it is the pool cue. While it is impossible to miss the CB entirely when looking down table, it is easy to miss the desired spot on the CB.
 
Breathing Syncs with Pupil Size, is an interesting study. My statement of, "I almost held my breath too long", has often followed extreme game winning shots. I hypothesize that this indicates I must use quiet breath along with quiet eyes. shrug 🤷‍♂️. I don't consciously control my breathing, well now that I have a habit.
 
The examples of distance visions that Dr. Dave gives in the video (around 7:10) are: basketball, bowling, baseball pitching, horseshoes, and darts. I would argue that all of these examples are fundamentally different from pool. In these sports you are moving the ball, horseshoe or dart with your hand. In pool and other sports (golf, baseball hitting), you are moving the ball with an instrument (the pool cue, golf club, or bat). In golf and baseball, you are instructed to keep your eye on the ball—not the fairway or the fence. In these sports you are, in some sense, “throwing” the club or the bat. In pool it is the pool cue. While it is impossible to miss the CB entirely when looking down table, it is easy to miss the desired spot on the CB.
Not if you're lined- up correctly. In golf you're propelling the clubhead thru a 'gate' where the balls sits at speeds up to and over 100mph. Looking at the golfball helps insure the posture(not the vision) needed to strike the ball squarely. I've seen good players dead-nut a golf ball with their eyes closed, that's only doable with proper posture/swing mechanics. Also in the golf swing you stand side-on to the shot line, you don't see the target itself til real late in the action. Golf swing and pool shots are not similar at all. As for baseball the ball is moving at a high rate of speed requiring incredible eye/hand coordination just to make contact. The only way to compare pool to baseball is if someone rolled the cueball to you and you had to hit it while its moving. Then you'd have to look at the cueball. I watched Eddie Taylor, then around 80yrs old, make five straight long rail banks without looking. Bottom line is if you're lined-up right it doesn't matter. OB last is just more natural/effective for most players.
 
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The examples of distance visions that Dr. Dave gives in the video (around 7:10) are: basketball, bowling, baseball pitching, horseshoes, and darts. I would argue that all of these examples are fundamentally different from pool. In these sports you are moving the ball, horseshoe or dart with your hand. In pool and other sports (golf, baseball hitting), you are moving the ball with an instrument (the pool cue, golf club, or bat). In golf and baseball, you are instructed to keep your eye on the ball—not the fairway or the fence. In these sports you are, in some sense, “throwing” the club or the bat. In pool it is the pool cue. While it is impossible to miss the CB entirely when looking down table, it is easy to miss the desired spot on the CB.

I agree that none of these sports analogies (including golf) is perfect. Here's a pertinent quote from the eye pattern "best practices" resource page, which I have expanded some during this thread:

Why do athletes in other sports like racquet sports, batting sports, and golf focus on the ball being struck with the implement instead of the ball target?

In dynamic racquet and batting sports, where the ball is moving, it is much more effective to focus on the moving ball (instead of where you want to send the ball) because you need to predict where the ball will be at the moment of contact and react very quickly. In pool, the CB is stationary so you know exactly where it will be at the moment of contact, and no fast reaction is required. Concerning golf, your gaze direction is very different for the target (looking along the desired line or landing zone down the fairway, or the cup or flag on the green) as compared to the ball (looking straight down). If you are looking at the target, you will not be able to accurately strike the ball with the club. This is analogous to elevated shots in pool like jump shots, where the gaze direction at the CB is very different from the gaze direction at the OB. With elevated pool shots, most people are more effective focusing on the CB during the final stroke, especially if the target ball is far down table. If you are looking at the OB during the stroke, you might not get an accurate hit on the CB, which is so critical with elevated shots, where even a tiny tip placement error can result in a miss.
 
When starting out I accepted Willie Mosconi as My Ultimate Authority, which would be close to "Lord and Savior".
When a learned of Willie Hoppe's method, I dismissed it as uh, well a different sport. 🤷‍♂️
After years of abstinence my shakey return had me exploring the Hoppe method. I accepted it as "the best way", for Me. I had met Mosconi and his behaviour towards a young autograph seeker had soured my opinion of him (as a person).
My transit started well before I had heard of Stephen Hendry. When I discovered that he too looked at the white when he hit it, I felt validated in making the switch. His statement that Ronnie does the same as him really sealed the deal in my mind.
Well billiards and snooker are cue sports but different from pool and Mosconi was the GOAT on the pool table. Then along came Jayson Shaw and crushed his straight pool high run record . He did it cueball last. 🤷‍♂️
Are there any more cue sports. 🤷‍♂️
 
. If you are looking at the target, you will not be able to accurately strike the ball with the club.
You should replace "you" with "I" in your essay. Or perhaps even "most". Shirley someone can demonstrate incredible accuracy blindfolded. Have you never watched an episode of Kung Fu that had the blind Master. 😉
HEIGHTEN all senses, even the sense of smell. 😉
 
My lawyer once told me not to mention anything other than a direct answer to the question, as it could open a line of question that was out of bounds. If I mention it, they can go there.
Soooo my position is that videos are not "off topic" period. 🤷‍♂️
So here's how it works in Real life. You know not that comedy stuff. That's my buttle I am open for Re Buttle. 😉
 
I have practiced with my eyes closed .... well until I could at least knock the pebble from his hand. 😉 🤷‍♂️
 
Steady Plan
Slight Aim
Put it In.
Whew the first morning required a peak.
The first day of My new religion 😉
Whew! IT WAS THE Tax the Rich chant that overloaded my memory search circuits. In Salt Lake City, wow. Just wow.
Back to my morning fitness.
 
Oh wow, that strikes a chord.

Thats bass akwards. Well in my school. Looking at the object ball on the forward stroke can result in a bump to whitey and ball in hand to opponent. I sure hope that is just a typo. 🤷‍♂️
The whole presentation is still Platinum. 🏆

Quite possibly bass akwards. It was fresh in my mind when I tried it, it has been many years now. Either way, the eyes moving around a lot didn't work for me. I check shot alignment while pausing at the cue ball, a few practice strokes to make sure things are sliding smoothly and to adjust speed, and I fire. A smooth transition between backstroke and forward stroke, no pause. I have always felt a pause divided the final stroke from the practice strokes and took away much of the benefit of the practice strokes. While the vertical motion is tiny I have always considered my stroke to be elliptical or a teardrop shape with the point being at the cue ball.

Plucking the pebble reminds me of po-boys and a fellow named Ken J. Many Fridays I would go on a po-boy run to get shrimp po-boys for lunch. I was going get one for myself so I would gather money and orders from the people working in the warehouse and offices before I went. Ken had the annoying habit of saving his silver change all week and giving me that to buy his po-boy with. Made me seem like a piker so I usually bought his po-boy with my cash and toted his silver all afternoon. One day he pulled out his usual big handful of silver and there was a five dollar bill floating on top of it. In the moment before he looked down to start counting silver I whipped my hand across his palm and scored the five without touching anything else. He counted out his silver and I took it without saying anything. When I gave him his po-boy I also gave him much more change than he was expecting! When he expressed confusion I told him to check his pocket. He never did figure out how I got the five.

Hu
 
For sure, but I think a lot of CBL started out as OBL and settled into CBL.

We always talk about "hitting the CB on the microdot" and it's much easier to do when you're focused on the thing you're hitting. The OB is pretty much a secondary consideration, physics are gonna physic, you only control one thing, how and where you hit the CB.

It really is a leap of faith and you need decently strong fundamentals to do it but it's kind of like unlocking a super power.
Forgive me if you became a convert after this post. I'm catching up on the comments. The following should be taken as generalized opinion and not solely focused on what I've quoted. ;)

Let me ask you something. How realistic is it for you or anyone else to make corrections in their stroke/mechanics after they've pulled the trigger and the cue is about to push through the CB..? Secondary question..: Do you believe it's easier to make corrections to aim/alignment on an object you can see or are blind to..? Finally a third..: If your shot line is off by lets say a few degrees. What are you chances of making that adjustment when not looking at the target..? Right, so we can all dispense with the falsehoods about the physical dynamics in this argument and get to the crux of it.

So here is my opinion on which should be last and the dynamics of shooting in general.

The actual process of pushing the cue through the CB should be a subconscious act. The likely hood of a player realizing and correcting for an error during the last stroke on a conscious level is fairly far fetched. Anyone else notice how many balls one can make during practice when they're just slapping around..? It's not your limitless skill doing that for you. Anyone also notice how many times you'll miss a combo to a somewhat blind pocket when the first ball tracks closely to a direct pot..? Think about that one....

So, what's better...? Well, CB last does disassociate your conscious mind from the actual shot, (the path from resting CB to ghost ball contact). So, in theory this would be the better method. I have zero doubt those with success using this method tend to have 'noisy eye', and yes I think I just coined that phrase (setting myself up for another basket weaving like correction). Google 'quiet eye' for inverse reference to what I mean...lol. Once your conscious has locked in the 'shot picture' by looking at the CB/OB/pocket relationship. Focusing on the CB allows your far more efficient subconscious do the fine tuning. IF one subscribes to the theory that the subconscious does the driving then CB last clearly wins. However....

IMO you need OB last to develop your 'shot picture' rolodex. The reality is that no matter which ball you wish to believe you gander at last. You will inevitability be looking at the OB after you've shot through the CB. I'd argue that transitioning during the shot is nearly as bad as physically moving your body. You can get away with both, but sometimes it happens before it should and why it's a hot topic no no in a developing player. Also, I personally see extreme value at watching the shot completely unfold. Everything from how the english (if applicable) reacts to the cloth, to how clean I made the OB in the pocket. So while I'll state without proof that OB last will promote 'noisy eye'. It does provide the greater feedback and while allow for conscious correction on outside variables.

IF you are a player with extensive 'successful' experience. Then CB last is probably fine for you. You're better served letting your heavily conditioned mind rinse and repeat what you've done for years. IF you're developing your game, for whatever reason, then OB last should be your poison. You need that oversight to write or rewrite your library.

I'd go even as far as to suggest that you'd be better off practicing OB last and playing CB last ;)
 
Forgive me if you became a convert after this post. I'm catching up on the comments. The following should be taken as generalized opinion and not solely focused on what I've quoted. ;)

Let me ask you something. How realistic is it for you or anyone else to make corrections in their stroke/mechanics after they've pulled the trigger and the cue is about to push through the CB..? Secondary question..: Do you believe it's easier to make corrections to aim/alignment on an object you can see or are blind to..? Finally a third..: If your shot line is off by lets say a few degrees. What are you chances of making that adjustment when not looking at the target..? Right, so we can all dispense with the falsehoods about the physical dynamics in this argument and get to the crux of it.

So here is my opinion on which should be last and the dynamics of shooting in general.

The actual process of pushing the cue through the CB should be a subconscious act. The likely hood of a player realizing and correcting for an error during the last stroke on a conscious level is fairly far fetched. Anyone else notice how many balls one can make during practice when they're just slapping around..? It's not your limitless skill doing that for you. Anyone also notice how many times you'll miss a combo to a somewhat blind pocket when the first ball tracks closely to a direct pot..? Think about that one....

So, what's better...? Well, CB last does disassociate your conscious mind from the actual shot, (the path from resting CB to ghost ball contact). So, in theory this would be the better method. I have zero doubt those with success using this method tend to have 'noisy eye', and yes I think I just coined that phrase (setting myself up for another basket weaving like correction). Google 'quiet eye' for inverse reference to what I mean...lol. Once your conscious has locked in the 'shot picture' by looking at the CB/OB/pocket relationship. Focusing on the CB allows your far more efficient subconscious do the fine tuning. IF one subscribes to the theory that the subconscious does the driving then CB last clearly wins. However....

IMO you need OB last to develop your 'shot picture' rolodex. The reality is that no matter which ball you wish to believe you gander at last. You will inevitability be looking at the OB after you've shot through the CB. I'd argue that transitioning during the shot is nearly as bad as physically moving your body. You can get away with both, but sometimes it happens before it should and why it's a hot topic no no in a developing player. Also, I personally see extreme value at watching the shot completely unfold. Everything from how the english (if applicable) reacts to the cloth, to how clean I made the OB in the pocket. So while I'll state without proof that OB last will promote 'noisy eye'. It does provide the greater feedback and while allow for conscious correction on outside variables.

IF you are a player with extensive 'successful' experience. Then CB last is probably fine for you. You're better served letting your heavily conditioned mind rinse and repeat what you've done for years. IF you're developing your game, for whatever reason, then OB last should be your poison. You need that oversight to write or rewrite your library.

I'd go even as far as to suggest that you'd be better off practicing OB last and playing CB last ;)

After reading your post I have to conclude we are all doing things wrong. What really matters is the ball going in the pocket so we should be looking at the pocket last!(grin)

Hu
 
I just watched er uh am watching this 147 and Jackson is hard for me to read . One shot I am thinking object ball the next shot cue ball. 🤷‍♂️ at 80 points and around the 4:15 is a shot where I see eyes raising after contact. Maybe I don' see too %ood. He sure does. 😉 Maybe it's coming up to track the object ball. 🤷‍♂️
 
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