EYE PATTERN “Best Practices” … Cue Ball or Object Ball Focus Last?

[boogieman]

CBL people should obviously also give OBL a good college try since it offers slight advantages, as listed and discussed in the video.

For sure, but I think a lot of CBL started out as OBL and settled into CBL.

We always talk about "hitting the CB on the microdot" and it's much easier to do when you're focused on the thing you're hitting. The OB is pretty much a secondary consideration, physics are gonna physic, you only control one thing, how and where you hit the CB.

It really is a leap of faith and you need decently strong fundamentals to do it but it's kind of like unlocking a super power.

It's not necessary, but to me it's like unlocking the next level once you unlock the rest of your fundamentals. You know how it's a good practice exercise to shoot with your eyes closed? It's like that but instead of just a confirmation you're hitting it correctly, you're actively focusing on the microdot you want on the CB.

I hope I'm not coming off as argumentative, I'm just discussing, but this really is a strange phenomenon. Unless your fundamentals are solid there likely won't be much gains to be found. For beginning students there's enough wrong with their... well... everything that it's probably easier and more consistent to focus on OB last. At some point you can begin to focus on CB last, not for everyone, but for some it's the cat's meow.

 

[gregcantrall]

Okay upon further review. Tried it again for a little deeper dive. The shot making isn't there anymore either. Shoot object ball last had me achieve my biggest trophy Z.
Well that figure because I told the story of why I made the switch. My Experiments thread is quite a uh repository but the waters are roiled extensively.
With my gold prospect hobby 8 year absence. I needed something because my play just wasn't there any more. Boy my Ego is pumping up just at the Retelling.
I had studied the sport to the best of my book mobile training. Finding anything and everything in print. My early study had produced Billiards As It Should Be Played. Willie Hoppe was voted player of the century (I think) by Billiards Digest. A magazine that I subscribed from my earliest study. Study study study along with practice practice practice. Are You Talkin to Me? Buddy?

 

[gregcantrall]

My EGO insisted
Whew thankfully I have forgotten.
Never Mind
Oppps I remember now.
You Wanna Play.....Some.

 

[dr_dave]

For beginning students there's enough wrong with their... well... everything that it's probably easier and more consistent to focus on OB last. At some point you can begin to focus on CB last, not for everyone, but for some it's the cat's meow.

In my experience working with many students, it is opposite. If stroke fundamentals are not solid, CBL can be helpful. But if stroke fundamentals are good, then OBL offers slight advantages, as listed and discussed in the video.

 

[boogieman]

I like CB-last if CB is really close/froze to rail. I'm more concerned about quality contact on those shots. Other than that i'm OB all the way.

CBL also works really well if you're really trying to hem someone up in certain safety situations. I think most people intuitively know this after playing for a while, as you said when quality of contact is of great importance. Especially on oddball shots quality of contact drastically improves focusing on CBL. On most shots I don't think it matters either way. On most shots it sounds like a crackpot idea to do so, but for some it works well, others OBL works better.

 

[garczar]

For sure, but I think a lot of CBL started out as OBL and settled into CBL.

We always talk about "hitting the CB on the microdot" and it's much easier to do when you're focused on the thing you're hitting. The OB is pretty much a secondary consideration, physics are gonna physic, you only control one thing, how and where you hit the CB.

It really is a leap of faith and you need decently strong fundamentals to do it but it's kind of like unlocking a super power.

It's not necessary, but to me it's like unlocking the next level once you unlock the rest of your fundamentals. You know how it's a good practice exercise to shoot with your eyes closed? It's like that but instead of just a confirmation you're hitting it correctly, you're actively focusing on the microdot you want on the CB.

I hope I'm not coming off as argumentative, I'm just discussing, but this really is a strange phenomenon. Unless your fundamentals are solid there likely won't be much gains to be found. For beginning students there's enough wrong with their... well... everything that it's probably easier and more consistent to focus on OB last. At some point you can begin to focus on CB last, not for everyone, but for some it's the cat's meow.

sure you didn't swallow a 'microdot' before this?? Seriously, if you like it great but please don't try to tell us that CB-last shooting has the effect of 'unlocking a super power'. IF this was true why do so few do it, including those that think/feel they do but actually don't?? Bottom line is its personal choice, it doesn't unlock the doors to some kind of pool wonderland. BTW, i can tell immediately if i'm doing because it feels so weird to me. Only time i go CB-last is close to rail shots.

 

[gregcantrall]

The Harry Platis method had the Corporation empty their pockets for the stakes and select a player for the one pocketgame.
I just emptied mine and it's $14.

 

[boogieman]

sure you didn't swallow a 'microdot' before this?? Seriously, if you like it great but please don't try to tell us that CB-last shooting has the effect of 'unlocking a super power'. IF this was true why do so few do it, including those that think/feel they do but actually don't?? Bottom line is its personal choice, it doesn't unlock the doors to some kind of pool wonderland.

I wonder where the hell that white rabbit is off to this time?

 

[gregcantrall]

In my experience working with many students, it is opposite. If stroke fundamentals are not solid, CBL can be helpful. But if stroke fundamentals are good, then OBL offers slight advantages, as listed and discussed in the video.

As a junior in high school I was trained to be center (as a senior I was elected All League). My toughest task was the snap to the kicker almost 15 yards back. I had never touched a football before that. I practiced it until I could make the snap consistently to my kicker target. Right straight to his hands at his chest. I was proud when showing Coach McHargue. His response was that's NO GOOD!. You can't keep your head down. The middle guard can hurt you with a blow from above to the neck. Legal then outlawed as possible fatal now. So I had to relearn the snap. In the blind. Bringing the head up to look him in the eyes. Hmmmm kinda like Cole now that I think about it. We did have things in common. I avoided though dabled around the alcohol addiction.

 

[nataddrho]

“Physics are gonna physic.” Can I put this on a tee shirt?

 

[gregcantrall]

For sure, but I think a lot of CBL started out as OBL and settled into CBL.

We always talk about "hitting the CB on the microdot" and it's much easier to do when you're focused on the thing you're hitting. The OB is pretty much a secondary consideration, physics are gonna physic, you only control one thing, how and where you hit the CB.

It really is a leap of faith and you need decently strong fundamentals to do it but it's kind of like unlocking a super power.

It's not necessary, but to me it's like unlocking the next level once you unlock the rest of your fundamentals. You know how it's a good practice exercise to shoot with your eyes closed? It's like that but instead of just a confirmation you're hitting it correctly, you're actively focusing on the microdot you want on the CB.

I hope I'm not coming off as argumentative, I'm just discussing, but this really is a strange phenomenon. Unless your fundamentals are solid there likely won't be much gains to be found. For beginning students there's enough wrong with their... well... everything that it's probably easier and more consistent to focus on OB last. At some point you can begin to focus on CB last, not for everyone, but for some it's the cat's meow.

Thank you, this makes it easier to digest why Ronnie told the young begin player object ball last.

 

[gregcantrall]

Thank you, this makes it easier to digest why Ronnie told the young begin player object ball last.

Oh yeah my memory of the Coach McHargue training just became crystal clear. He had me learn it that way first. Shesh he did arouse my anger when the goal posts were moved. Of course football thrives on Anger. Baseball and Pool requirements are more precision focus important. If the anger is focused ......well just ask my wife

 

[gregcantrall]

You can ask my wife

 

[dr_dave]

FYI to those interested, I just added the follow section to the eye pattern "best practices" resource page:

Can it help some people to focus on the cue ball last (CBL) instead of the object ball (OBL)?​

Definitely. As long as you have still focus (see quiet eyes) and keep your head and body still during the stroke, what you focus on during the stroke is not so important; although, as pointed out above, there are slight advantages to focusing on the OB during the stroke.

If your stroke fundamentals are not solid, or if you do not trust yourself to stroke straight and hit the desired contact point in the CB, it can certainly help to focus on the CB during the stroke. But if your stroke fundamentals are solid, consistent, and trustworthy, then focusing on the OB during the final stroke does offer slight advantages.

 

[dr_dave]

FYI to those interested, I just added the follow section to the eye pattern "best practices" resource page:

Can it help some people to focus on the cue ball last (CBL) instead of the object ball (OBL)?​

Definitely. As long as you have still focus (see quiet eyes) and keep your head and body still during the stroke, what you focus on during the stroke is not so important; although, as pointed out above, there are slight advantages to focusing on the OB during the stroke.

If your stroke fundamentals are not solid, or if you do not trust yourself to stroke straight and hit the desired contact point in the CB, it can certainly help to focus on the CB during the stroke. But if your stroke fundamentals are solid, consistent, and trustworthy, then focusing on the OB during the final stroke does offer slight advantages.

Here are the slight advantages to focusing on the OB during the final stroke, as listed in the video:

1. The distant focus helps you maintain the desired aim since you can clearly see what is called the aiming “shot picture.”
2. The distant focus helps you deliver the cue more straight toward your target.
3. It helps ensure you keep your head and body still during and after the stroke, instead of looking up from CB focus to see where the CB is heading.
4. You can better diagnose and learn from each shot since you can immediately and more clearly see the direction the CB heads and where it hits the OB, without needing to move your eyes or head during the shot.

 

[gregcantrall]

Got a good look at Judds eyes at the 10:40 mark. Looks like my hypothesis was wrong.

 

[mareh]

this was a longpot, judd had to lift his eyebrowes to look at the OB. Maybe the OB wasnt in his peripheral vision or was on the edge, when looking at the CB ,so he has gone for OB last?
Just thinking.

 

[ShootingArts]

Got a good look at Judds eyes at the 10:40 mark. Looks like my hypothesis was wrong.

When we were talking about this fifteen or twenty years ago I went to the video of pro's. Particularly on long shots where it would seem object ball last would benefit most it wasn't uncommon at all to see the pro's eyes move to the cue ball as they started their final stroke. They said they shot looking at the object ball, they no doubt thought they did.

I was a pretty solid shooter, a successful gambler, when I deliberately gave cue ball last a three week trial. That was a plan before I started. I was a bit obsessed at the time so that was well over a hundred hours of practice and another fifty or so of competition. At the end of three weeks I could detect zero difference in performance looking at cue ball last or object ball last.

The popular optical sights when I was shooting pistol competition had no magnification and compares to cue ball and object ball if you consider the dot the cue ball and the target the object ball. A friend was a very consistent top ten shooter, sometimes top five, but I can't remember him ever winning. He wanted me to try his gun one day. I did. Groups were similar but about six inches apart at fifteen yards. Trying to figure out why I asked him if he looked at red dot or target? He looked at the target. That seems like it should mean something to pool players.

The fact that we look at the cue ball last on some tough shots seems to indicate that looking at it last on all shots might be best. Few hit the cue ball as accurately as they think. In limited testing I found absolute bangers that looked at the cue ball last hit it where intended!

With no improvement seen from cue ball last when I tested for three weeks I went back to object ball last purely because I had already hit many thousands of balls like that. I have never been quite convinced it was better. Look at a contact point we often can't fully control hitting or look at one that we can precisely control hitting? If I had to defend one or the other in debate I think I would prefer the merits of cue ball last. When your mechanics are solid I don't know that either matters on the table.

Hu

 

[Tennesseejoe]

Ronnie Allen was the King of One Handed Jacked Up. Try it and guess which ball he was looking at when he hit whitey.
The most incredible shot I heard of him executing was, one handed one attempt for all the money that filled all 6 pockets with rail bird bets. A spot shot on a 9 foot table. And no rails touched.
Try it.

It is easy with a heavy cue ball.

 

[ChrisinNC]

sure you didn't swallow a 'microdot' before this?? Seriously, if you like it great but please don't try to tell us that CB-last shooting has the effect of 'unlocking a super power'. IF this was true why do so few do it, including those that think/feel they do but actually don't?? Bottom line is its personal choice, it doesn't unlock the doors to some kind of pool wonderland. BTW, i can tell immediately if i'm doing because it feels so weird to me. Only time i go CB-last is close to rail shots.

My own experience - at age 68 I gave up on my goal of running 100 balls in 14.1 on a 9-foot table after achieving a high run of 98 roughly 20 years ago. I realized my only chance was to attempt it on our 7-foot Diamond Smart table. I couldn’t manage more than a run of 50-60 after countless attempts over a number of weeks of trying.

Out of frustration / desperation I switched to experimenting with cue ball last and within a week I had a 110 ball run on the 7’ table. That’s all the confirmation I needed to stick with it, although I admit it is tougher on a 9-foot table, especially when the cue ball and object ball are more than 4-5 feet apart.