Fact or Fiction - Drawing a ball without hitting anything

[Dead Money]

I can draw a ball without hitting anything!!
























































I just need a piece of paper and a pen and about 15 seconds to do it!

 

[Bob Jewett]

Just a nitpick, but with a tip offset approaching (1/2)R, shouldn't that be almost 2/3'rds of ball speed that's lost (V' = (5/7 X 1/2)V)?

Jim

Oops. Yes. (As you know,) just center ball will slow to 5/7 of the original speed of the ball as the cue ball gets smooth rolling while "full draw" will take it down to 3/7 of the original speed. This suggests that a single frozen object ball might let you stop the cue ball if the linear momentum is equally divided between the two balls and the cue ball gets all the angular momentum. The contact spot between the balls may need to be lubricated.

 

[mikeyfrost]

May be off topic but I saw something I have not seen before and wonder if my eyes were playing tricks on my because I had been drinking. I was playing 9 ball and played a safety(very poor safety). Anyway cue ball is about dead center table(valley bar box). Object ball was about a balls width to the left and about 4 inches off the back rail so it was very easy to kick for contact and hit full.

Here's where it got fuzzy and we stopped the game to talk about it. He kicks with pretty decent speed, hits the ball very full and the cue ball absolutely went toward the back rail and barely made contact with it. In other words I believe he kicked and did a draw shot. He said it was just recoil from the crappy balls on the table and I feel like it was a draw kick shot? Who's right?

 

[Bob Jewett]

May be off topic but I saw something I have not seen before and wonder if my eyes were playing tricks on my because I had been drinking. I was playing 9 ball and played a safety(very poor safety). Anyway cue ball is about dead center table(valley bar box). Object ball was about a balls width to the left and about 4 inches off the back rail so it was very easy to kick for contact and hit full.

Here's where it got fuzzy and we stopped the game to talk about it. He kicks with pretty decent speed, hits the ball very full and the cue ball absolutely went toward the back rail and barely made contact with it. In other words I believe he kicked and did a draw shot. He said it was just recoil from the crappy balls on the table and I feel like it was a draw kick shot? Who's right?

So as I understand it, the cue ball hit the far rail behind the ball, hit the ball and then went back the short distance to the far rail. That's a standard shot at carom billiards. It requires the cue ball to retain some of its follow as it comes off the cushion, the cue ball hits the object ball nearly full and loses all its speed and then the follow takes it back to the cushion. (I think of it as follow rather than draw.) It works best on slippery, new cloth or with a waxed cue ball.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

May be off topic but I saw something I have not seen before and wonder if my eyes were playing tricks on my because I had been drinking. I was playing 9 ball and played a safety(very poor safety). Anyway cue ball is about dead center table(valley bar box). Object ball was about a balls width to the left and about 4 inches off the back rail so it was very easy to kick for contact and hit full.

Here's where it got fuzzy and we stopped the game to talk about it. He kicks with pretty decent speed, hits the ball very full and the cue ball absolutely went toward the back rail and barely made contact with it. In other words I believe he kicked and did a draw shot. He said it was just recoil from the crappy balls on the table and I feel like it was a draw kick shot? Who's right?

I can imagine some ways that might have happened:

1. Your scenario: the CB could have retained some "forward" spin after rail contact, which would have been "draw" when it hit the OB and could have returned it to the rail. This only makes sense if the cloth was very slippery (like new).

2. The CB might have been quite a bit lighter than the OB and "bounced" straight back off it, which could have returned it to the rail. I don't know how much lighter it would have to be in order for this to happen.

3. The CB could have hit the OB at an angle and caromed back to the rail.

4. Some combination of these effects - this may be the most likely.

pj
chgo

 

[iba7467]

May be off topic but I saw something I have not seen before and wonder if my eyes were playing tricks on my because I had been drinking. I was playing 9 ball and played a safety(very poor safety). Anyway cue ball is about dead center table(valley bar box). Object ball was about a balls width to the left and about 4 inches off the back rail so it was very easy to kick for contact and hit full.

Here's where it got fuzzy and we stopped the game to talk about it. He kicks with pretty decent speed, hits the ball very full and the cue ball absolutely went toward the back rail and barely made contact with it. In other words I believe he kicked and did a draw shot. He said it was just recoil from the crappy balls on the table and I feel like it was a draw kick shot? Who's right?

With enough top/follow this is absolutely correct. You can easily stroke a ball that will rebound off the rail while maintaining forward spin. Once it hits an object that forward spin will send it immediately back toward the rail it just left. This is similar to the shot where you put two balls in a pocket, shoot one in, and then the cue ball rushes back in to pocket the second after rebounding off the rail.

A second possibility is that an imperfection in the object ball could have caused the cue ball to "bounce" backwards but the balls would have had to been horrific.

 

[Bob Jewett]

Pique' is a technique in carom billiards in which you get a lot more draw on the ball than you can with a level stick. An example would be where you need to draw almost straight back 6 inches from one ball to another but you don't want to move the first ball more than two diamonds. Try that with a level stick. ...

Here is a video of use of the technique that was pointed out over in the carom forum. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vq_hixmHtqc The first two or three times the player gets the balls on the cushion right away, but around 5:00 he is having problems and needs to do some pique' shots.

One pocket players can probably see some applications in pool.

 

[mikeyfrost]

Thanks for the responses I couldnt figure it out, it's still not very easy to do though!

 

[Bob Jewett]

Here is a video of use of the technique ...

Here is another video of the same player with good demos of pique', sideways masse' and forward masse' beginning at the book mark in the URL. Notice how softly he hits all the shots.