Fact or Fiction - Drawing a ball without hitting anything

"CaliRed".

"CaliRed".

High Def Videos!!!
Silver Member
a friend of mine says he was reading a Ralph Greenleaf book and it mentioned that he could draw his cueball with a level stroke, without hitting anything.

So you got a empty table, would have been a 10 ft back in those days, you stroke the cueball with a level stroke with a ton of draw on it, and before it hits the end rail, it is able to go backwards for who knows how far, WITHOUT EVER touching another ball or the rail.

I would think it would be fairly difficult, if not impossible.

Anyone seen anyone do anything like this? Anyone read the same thing?

Or is my buddy trying to make me look like a idiot for asking this?:grin:
 
never heard of this

The first thing is that they used to play on diff cloth...which i believe was simonis #1 (this could have been later) and was considered the best cloth bar none.


What has to happen for the shot you described would be the friction of the cloth compounded by the back spin on the CB would have to overcome the forward momentum of the weight of the CB.....

Bob Jewitt would be a better person to ask this of but I would have to say its not possible....to me the cloth would have to have very high friction, and i still don't see it happening.

Theres just too much forward velocity to overcome by the backspin.
 
I don't think your doing a full table length stop and draw no matter what.

Not unless maybe , your taking like a full swing at it and scooping right under it popping it up and spinning it back.

But I bet you can do a little short poke stroke and get the CB the to roll back a few inches with minimal forward motion first.
 
"CaliRed". said:
a friend of mine says he was reading a Ralph Greenleaf book and it mentioned that he could draw his cueball with a level stroke, without hitting anything.

So you got a empty table, would have been a 10 ft back in those days, you stroke the cueball with a level stroke with a ton of draw on it, and before it hits the end rail, it is able to go backwards for who knows how far, WITHOUT EVER touching another ball or the rail.

I would think it would be fairly difficult, if not impossible.

Anyone seen anyone do anything like this? Anyone read the same thing?

Or is my buddy trying to make me look like a idiot for asking this?:grin:
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm going to have to go ahead and hit the big ol' BS button on this one.
 
If you hit the cue ball as far off center as possible, you have to elevate to about 60 degrees to just get the cue ball to skid to a stop. A little higher, and it will come back a little.

The amazingly simple rule is that when you are in your elevated position, the line of the stick has to point to a spot on the cloth behind where the cue ball is resting in order for the ball to come back without hitting anything. This is independent of the cloth and ball material. You have to make an allowance on the "pointing" because it will be the upper edge of the tip that hits the cue ball. Take a line through the contact patch of the tip and parallel to the axis of the cue stick and find where it hits the table.

Perhaps the confusion came from Clive Cottingham's book (The Game of Billiards; HB/DJ; 1964) which describes such a shot with only about 30 degrees of elevation. Cottingham was wrong.

So far as I know, Ralph Greenleaf never wrote a book, and there was never any biography written about him.
 
You could shoot the cb into the rail then when it rebonds back to you,you can strike it low and make it go foward and then draw back....
 
If you stand and the end like you are breaking and hit the cue ball very hard at the other short rail. When it comes back to you hit it again (level stroke with low spin) medium speed this time...This will make the ball go foward and then draw back very nicely like a masse shot. This is a very old shot it may be the one you speak of..I first saw Fast Eddie make this about 20 years ago.

This is very dangerous shot don't try this shot if you like the shape of your nose now...:wink:
 
Last edited:
JamisonNeu said:
If you stand and the end like you are breaking and hit the cue ball very hard at the other short rail. When it comes back to you hit it again (level stroke with low spin) medium speed this time...This will make the ball go foward and then draw back very nicely like a masse shot. This is a very old shot it may be the one you speak of..I first saw Fast Eddie make this about 20 years ago.

This is very dangerous shot don't try this shot if you like the shape of your nose now...:wink:
Click to expand...



Here is this shot. I hit it soft because I always hated this shot but it gets the point across. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tv_DSmfPxYM
 
well ill be damed....thats pretty darn crafty, its not often i see something i don't know.

very cool thanks for the vid,
Grey Ghost

I'll wear my hard hat and face shield at the house and drill the hell out of it....but safety first lmao
 
Thanks Bob,

I'll have to find out what book/article he was reading where it was claiming Ralph could do that.

I hadn't ever heard or seen of it, so it was news to me. I figured I would get some answers here though:grin:

Bob Jewett said:
If you hit the cue ball as far off center as possible, you have to elevate to about 60 degrees to just get the cue ball to skid to a stop. A little higher, and it will come back a little.

The amazingly simple rule is that when you are in your elevated position, the line of the stick has to point to a spot on the cloth behind where the cue ball is resting in order for the ball to come back without hitting anything. This is independent of the cloth and ball material. You have to make an allowance on the "pointing" because it will be the upper edge of the tip that hits the cue ball. Take a line through the contact patch of the tip and parallel to the axis of the cue stick and find where it hits the table.

Perhaps the confusion came from Clive Cottingham's book (The Game of Billiards; HB/DJ; 1964) which describes such a shot with only about 30 degrees of elevation. Cottingham was wrong.

So far as I know, Ralph Greenleaf never wrote a book, and there was never any biography written about him.
Click to expand...
 
I have seen a ball stroked so well that is lost all momentum just prior to hitting the rail. I had never seen it before and will probably never again. The guy was shooting a prop shot and it was incredible. Again, the ball continued forward but it put on the brakes like a Porsche. I wish more people could have seen it as it is exactly what is being discussed here. He hit it with extreme draw.
 
"CaliRed". said:
a friend of mine says he was reading a Ralph Greenleaf book and it mentioned that he could draw his cueball with a level stroke, without hitting anything.

So you got a empty table, would have been a 10 ft back in those days, you stroke the cueball with a level stroke with a ton of draw on it, and before it hits the end rail, it is able to go backwards for who knows how far, WITHOUT EVER touching another ball or the rail.

I would think it would be fairly difficult, if not impossible.

Anyone seen anyone do anything like this? Anyone read the same thing?

Or is my buddy trying to make me look like a idiot for asking this?:grin:
Click to expand...



Red........Larry Nevel can probably do it....:eek:


- Ghost

PS, jk
 
iba7467 said:
I have seen a ball stroked so well that is lost all momentum just prior to hitting the rail. I had never seen it before and will probably never again. The guy was shooting a prop shot and it was incredible. Again, the ball continued forward but it put on the brakes like a Porsche. I wish more people could have seen it as it is exactly what is being discussed here. He hit it with extreme draw.
Click to expand...
If that's what he did, it was with some kind of gaff. Maybe a loaded/trick cue ball that he had palmed onto the table. I'm sure he didn't do it with a regular cue ball with a legal shot and a level stroke.
 
If your draw shot could emulate a masse,ie put alot of spin on the cueball, it would deffinately be possible.
 
conetip said:
If your draw shot could emulate a masse,ie put alot of spin on the cueball, it would deffinately be possible.
Click to expand...
:bash::bash::bash::bash::bash:

BOB has already spoken on the issue and deemed it not so....BOB knows everything about pool....I hear he is a time traveler and actually from the future and is responsible for teaching us all the game.

Bob Jewett is a pool GAWD!

ALL HAIL BOB!:bow-down::bow-down:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top