Failure, Again

> My only original thought is that maybe the shaft was cracked in the tapping process,and it didn't show itself until it was broke with.

I'm with Jerry,how did the taper at the bottom of the hole come about?

If it was truly cracked during the process of tapping,what was it that caused it? Incorrect tap drill? A machine crash with a boring bar that bottomed out? Was the tap used by hand or under power?

I'm also with the crew that advises using a phenolic collar,and a gentler drilling,boring,and tapping process. Keep us informed,Tommy D.
 
Paul Dayton said:
The hole isn't tapered. The break is angled and the screw seems to fit fine. The screw threads aren't compressing the lands of the hole threads.

At some point in the life of the shaft, enough lateral pressure was applied to the shaft while a screw, a drill, or a tap was inside the hole, to cause the split. Breaking the balls didn't do this. No collar is a big gamble as you have found out.
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Paul I have great respect for you & your knowledge of cue making. BUT I have to ask you 1 question. Can you show me a modern drill & tap that would result in the severly tapered threads that are shown in the pictues. I
have been using a standard 3/8-10 tap & a bottoming tap since 1984. It does not result in a tapped hole like that one. Is this some sort of wood working tap that I am not familiar with?. THANKS FOR YOUR COMENT...JER
 
in your post you said the person only weighs 120 pounds and does not abuse the cue.then in another post you say you have to ship the cue .so by shipping the cue how do you get to see how they treat it. that break 98% of the time is caused by excesive flex. somebody some how is bowing the crap out of it. the other 2% is after a drunk triped over it. as for the tapered hole look, that comes from the way it split. to make it look like that. your work looks good enough for that not to happen under normal conditions.

bill
 
BLACKHEARTCUES said:
Can you show me a modern drill & tap that would result in the severly tapered threads that are shown in the pictues.
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Hey Jer. The split is not parallel with the axis of the hole. It looks tapered because farther up the shaft, that broke off piece isnt' very thick.

Kelly
 
I looks to me like this could have happened during tapping. The tap bottomed out at the top of the hole, especially if it is tapered, causing internal stress. The crack may have been there before she even hit a ball.
 
Split

I made a sneaky with a 3/8-10 pin and no collar to see if it would last. I shot with it for a week and it exploded just like that. I built another shaft and put in a phenelic insert and tapped that. It seemed to solve the problem.
 
Just to clear up a few things. This cue is not a one off cue. They are not available with collars, but are mass produced. This is either an isolated case or its still being kept quiet. I am shipping it back to the person marketing theese, then i guess hes taking them to the maker. i'm just vouching for the person who uses this cue and the fact that its not being abused. The last shaft when it split, split upwards 8" from the joint. it was still connected, just split in half. Theres actually a second crack extending downwards as well. She really likes how the cue plays when it stays togther which is the problem. I have several shafts that i could put on there, but it doesnt play the same. I'm already up to $45 in shipping which would cover the necessary mods to the shaft to make it survive, but shouldnt that thave been done in the first place? I understand with what you guys are saying to do to prevent this from happening again, but i dont feel its my obligation to spend extra money to correct underlieing issues. I dont feel its an issue due to abuse or neglect. And i cant imagine the cuemaker will keep replacing theese shafts for free. We had to wait 4 weeks for this shaft to be finished.
 
That hole is definitely tapered, also the huge cavern of empty space above the pin is just one problem here. (think one piece ferrule/tip combos) Who makes this thing? Also I would pay one dime in shipping this back to the seller. Make them pay for making a crap cue.
 
Hah, you would be suprised. This is what i got as a reply, again from the maker/seller.

Sorry to hear you've got cue troubles again. You can send it back for re-evaluation. If it's a manufacturing defect we'll fix it. I must tell you that this has not been a problem with anyone elses cue so we're going to have to scrutinize the damage and possible cause a bit more closely.
 
I'm giving him a chance to do the right thing before i post the brand, I think thats fair. I want to make sure that there is an actual issue here with the materials/workmanship.
 
It seems to me that most cuemakers know how to drill and tap without this problem coming up. I would suggest the possibility that the shaft was not properly seated against the butt when the cue was screwed together. This would easily cause the shaft to split as the screw was forced into the hole against the threads on the break shot.

I don't think it was the cuemaker.
 
for those who havent figured it out. The G-10 pin with no collar should be a good hint. :wink:
 
Since they are readily available now, there many using this type of pin. So I don't believe that's a very good hint, for me at least.

For those that keep saying the the hole is tapered.....your eyes are deceiving you. It is an optical illusion that is being caused by the angle of the split.

The fact that the hole is much deeper than the pin length does not help out the problem. This is to allow the tap to go deep enough to leave good threads for the pin. A bottoming tap would eliminate this.

Here's my thoughts.............if the cue maker is telling you that he does not have a problem with anyone else, this would make me go Mmmmm. The fact that it has happened to you twice would also make me go Mmmmm.
There is too much information that is missing from this equation to make an intelligent determination on what is happening. Without that information all anyone can do is speculate.

I do know this though..........if it were my shaft and I was sending it off to be repaired again.....it would have a collar on it when it came back!

<~~~this is all JMHO....................
 
i wish it was as simple as the it not being screwed together tight. I'd accept the full blame, but i cant. I put it together with 3 other sticks that night. She warmed up before she played, so it would have made an odd noise if it wasnt together right. This is the second time this has happened so it being improperly assembled twice is a stretch. All signs point to junk, reusing of the tip, ferrule not the same size as the tip, the shaft is a smaller diameter than the butt and the threads are all chunky.
 
fatsix said:
i wish it was as simple as the it not being screwed together tight. I'd accept the full blame, but i cant. I put it together with 3 other sticks that night. She warmed up before she played, so it would have made an odd noise if it wasnt together right. This is the second time this has happened so it being improperly assembled twice is a stretch. All signs point to junk, reusing of the tip, ferrule not the same size as the tip, the shaft is a smaller diameter than the butt and the threads are all chunky.
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Sounds like you've made your decision.................why waste any more time trying to get fixed. There are too many guys doing great work that you would not have these situations with.
 
Dave, I appreciate your view from the other side, which is why i posted asking for info. The thing that gets me, is that every cuemaker that has responed to this thread said that there needs to have some type of collar or an insert in the shaft. So either they are being fixed and nothing being said, or i got two shafts made on friday afternoon during a rainstorm. Or noone is using them and only as a backup. There were at least 25 people at the match that saw it break, and said it should not have, no way, no how. I looked at every shaft i have (at least 10) an all of the threads are as smooth inside as they are outside,why are theese all chunky and look like sawdust? Would you be proud of that work if you did it? I dont think the hole is tapered either, just the way it split makes it look that way.
 
fatsix said:
Dave, I appreciate your view from the other side, which is why i posted asking for info. The thing that gets me, is that every cuemaker that has responed to this thread said that there needs to have some type of collar or an insert in the shaft. So either they are being fixed and nothing being said, or i got two shafts made on friday afternoon during a rainstorm. Or noone is using them and only as a backup. There were at least 25 people at the match that saw it break, and said it should not have, no way, no how. I looked at every shaft i have (at least 10) an all of the threads are as smooth inside as they are outside,why are theese all chunky and look like sawdust? Would you be proud of that work if you did it? I dont think the hole is tapered either, just the way it split makes it look that way.
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Nope........But I would never turn out work like that.

Good luck on your quest.
 
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