You can search a player’s rating. Look up the top 5 players from your area, and that will give you a good idea.
In most pool rooms I’ve been to, a 600 player would be top dog amongst the regulars. Each city might have 5 players above 700.
fargo and the ghost
- Thread starter dendweller
- Start date
In most pool rooms I’ve been to, a 600 player would be top dog amongst the regulars. Each city might have 5 players above 700.
I'd say that's high. Locally to me there's a single 700, and he's bang on 700. Below him, there's a few on the high side of 600. From there it falls through the floor.
If I travel down the road a little ways into Toronto. I can find ~>700 players but there may be a dozen or so in a population of ~7M, and they live/breath pool.
A lot of accurate comments in here. I'm at 705 with 1200+ Robustness. 9ball ghost, I don't even bother, its a slaughter. 10ball ghost is tricky, like others have said, it's a 50/50 for me. I play 8ball ghost often, without ball in hand. It's challenging and fun at the same time. I usually beat the 8ball ghost no ball in hand 80%+ of the time. I don't really play the ghost in rotation anymore. I just break and play as if I'm playing another opponent. Play safes, kicks, push outs etc... and I just keep track of open ball misses.
Someone near a 500 Fargo can be a low B also. In the 450-500 range, I would say 4 balls as a good average run out is good, maybe 5 at the top of the range. As a 550 I tried the ghost thing a few times, and can beat the 7 ball ghost pretty easily, 8 ball only a few times, don't remember ever beating the 9 ball ghost, but I do generally have a 9 or 10 ball break and run almost every race to 7 or 9.
8 ball as in the game or an actual 8 ball ghost? Never heard anyone play the ghost in 8 ball, but you can play an X ball ghost in rotation and that is how it's generally done to track skill and progress. Rack 7 balls, you have a 7 ball ghost, rack 8 balls, 9 ball ghost or just toss them out on the table and take ball in hand. An A- to A player should be able to beat the 8 ball ghost, maybe sometimes the 9 ball ghost, which is about 600-650 Fargo
Yes if you can run out 10 ball more than half the time with ball in hand then that is a high level of play. But I'm guessing you are not remembering things correctly or not exactly being honest in your idea of how you used to play "back when". All those things like your idea of Fargo ratings, are pretty well established as to how good of a player you need to be to do certain things. Anyone that can beat the 10 ball ghost is an Open - Pro level player. The top pro players can beat the 11 ball or 12 ball ghost regularly.
What is a typical house shooter? From the way you describe it, that is an Open level player, that is as good as anyone in a region or a random pool hall but not pro level. That is a high 600, low 700 range. Heck I'm a 550 and I can beat many regulars in random pool halls I go to. Even a 450 player can beat most random players one runs across in a bar/pool hall. If you look across Fargo, the median is a 550 of all players in Fargo, but that is really across the decent pool players in general since not all pool players are in the system to be rated. So out of the "decent" players and up, 550 is right in the middle, enough to beat half of all random players.
Ditto. I'd guess it takes a Fargo of at least 790 to beat the twelve ball ghost more than half the time, which means it takes a top 50 player in the world.
I come from Philly, and in the past 20 years our top 3 players, all well known regionally and sometimes nationally, were Josh Brothers,
Adam Keiler, and Eddie Abraham. I've been following their Fargo's, and they have ranged from 715-740. Before all the Fargo ratings came about, they were considered "Open" players in the ABCD/Open/Pro ratings. They were the huge favorites to win a regional event, except when one of the actual pros decided to enter, such as a Danny Bassavich. My time frame is 1998 to 2010.
I'd bet pretty good against all 3 of these guys beating the 10 ball ghost in a long session on a "gambling" gold crown (lets say double shims for 9 ball play), or on any Diamond 9' table ever made.
I actually did bet against Josh one day on a double shimmed GC in about 2003 or so playing the 9 ball ghost. I think we did a 7 ahead session. He either lost or we quit at even after a few hours of play. I can't remember exactly it was so long ago. Yes, he should be a HUGE favorite to beat the 9 ball ghost, but this particular day it just wasn't working.
If someone is a true favorite to beat the 10 ball ghost in a long session, they are pro level. No doubt about it.
Adam Keiler, and Eddie Abraham. I've been following their Fargo's, and they have ranged from 715-740. Before all the Fargo ratings came about, they were considered "Open" players in the ABCD/Open/Pro ratings. They were the huge favorites to win a regional event, except when one of the actual pros decided to enter, such as a Danny Bassavich. My time frame is 1998 to 2010.
I'd bet pretty good against all 3 of these guys beating the 10 ball ghost in a long session on a "gambling" gold crown (lets say double shims for 9 ball play), or on any Diamond 9' table ever made.
I actually did bet against Josh one day on a double shimmed GC in about 2003 or so playing the 9 ball ghost. I think we did a 7 ahead session. He either lost or we quit at even after a few hours of play. I can't remember exactly it was so long ago. Yes, he should be a HUGE favorite to beat the 9 ball ghost, but this particular day it just wasn't working.
If someone is a true favorite to beat the 10 ball ghost in a long session, they are pro level. No doubt about it.
Willowbrook Wolfy
Going pro
Didn’t realize I was that good. Cause I’m still missing straight in shots sometimes. Guess it matters where you play. But I never thought 650 was that good. Always thought I was around 650. And maybe a 580 now. But the 9 ball ghost is going down at least half the sets tonight and I’m nowhere near back up to speed. 5/7 last night. For me running them is easy. It’s the in game safes that kill me. Against the ghost I don’t have to safe. Had 1 run with 3 straight banks last night. They were easy to the side ones. But usually would have probably safed instead of taking 1-2 of them. So I’m not worried much about the ghost or even too much about shape. When you are worried about shape you get stuck behind balls more. I’d rather leave a more difficult shot than no shot at all.
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Don't take this the wrong way but there is ZERO chance you have ever been a 650, even back "when you used to shoot good". Chances are pretty strong you have never been at a 600 level either. Why do I say that? There are too many things you believe that a good player would never believe, and too many things that you haven't learned yet that you would have had to have learned if you were a decent player. Your knowledge level is way too low to have ever been very good.
It appears to me that you are in that stage that almost everyone goes through at some point where they are starting to shoot pretty straight and learn some position play and think they know a whole lot more than they actually do, and believe that they are a whole bunch better than they actually are. It is the "aren't yet good enough to realize how much you really suck" stage. The best thing you can do is go play some big events against some good regional players to see where you really stand and how much work you really have to go, and then stick around here trying to learn as much as you can, but you aren't a good or even decent player yet, trust me, and any other good player will tell you the same.
Willowbrook Wolfy
Going pro
Hey sorry I took it the wrong way! But I’ve actually been the guy that no one in the hall will play even for money.
This is interesting, as someone who lives on a small island and plays in complete isolation. I have never had a Fargo rating. I played 10 racks against the ghost last night; 5 break and runs, 1 no ball in hand run (dry break), 2 ball in hand, 2 losses. I don’t bother playing a full set of ball in hand against the 9 ghost, and while I haven’t played it much, and it’s been a while, I don’t recall having too many issue with BiH 10 ball ghost. And I’ve run 140 in 14.1. This discussion would suggest I’m somewhere around 700 based purely on playing the ghost. However, I have zero confidence I could beat a 700 rated player. Maybe I’d go alright? I have no idea 
Based on the above, I'd say we are equal players. ~650 with random peaks of near 700.This is interesting, as someone who lives on a small island and plays in complete isolation. I have never had a Fargo rating. I played 10 racks against the ghost last night; 5 break and runs, 1 no ball in hand run (dry break), 2 ball in hand, 2 losses. I don’t bother playing a full set of ball in hand against the 9 ghost, and while I haven’t played it much, and it’s been a while, I don’t recall having too many issue with BiH 10 ball ghost. And I’ve run 140 in 14.1. This discussion would suggest I’m somewhere around 700 based purely on playing the ghost. However, I have zero confidence I could beat a 700 rated player. Maybe I’d go alright? I have no idea
Can you beat a 700 player...? Sure if aligns with one of your peaks. It has for me on occassion.
You should add some vids of your 10b ghost attempts to the Challenge Thread, if you're outfitted to do so.
You beat the 10 ball ghost no problem? Post up a live stream - would love to see it.This is interesting, as someone who lives on a small island and plays in complete isolation. I have never had a Fargo rating. I played 10 racks against the ghost last night; 5 break and runs, 1 no ball in hand run (dry break), 2 ball in hand, 2 losses. I don’t bother playing a full set of ball in hand against the 9 ghost, and while I haven’t played it much, and it’s been a while, I don’t recall having too many issue with BiH 10 ball ghost. And I’ve run 140 in 14.1. This discussion would suggest I’m somewhere around 700 based purely on playing the ghost. However, I have zero confidence I could beat a 700 rated player. Maybe I’d go alright? I have no idea
EDIT: To be clear, this is not me saying, “YO MAH MAD SKILLZ BRO!”
Just a response with some video. And I do think I’d make an interesting test case, as a person who basically never plays tournaments, and in fact, never plays anyone (DOUBLE EDIT: People are always confused by this. I live on a small island in South Korea). If I ever have the opportunity to be around Fargo rated players, it would be interesting to see what playing the ghost actually means when it comes to a real match because rated players earned that through real blood, sweat and the proverbial. Does your ability against the ghost actual translate to something?I don’t have any 10 ball ghost videos, but here’s some 9 ball. My mates, who all live in different cities, do a little scoring thing, like one pool, which is what I’m tracking on the phone. 1 point per ball, +5 if you run without BiH:
And here’s some 14.1:
I’ll play some 10 ball on the weekend.
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Good playing shuddy. What happened with that 9 ball around 5:15? ; )
I hate those misses. Everything looked good, stance and stroke and all and the hit sounded good and it just didn’t go. Maybe that’s a true aiming miss
I hate those misses. Everything looked good, stance and stroke and all and the hit sounded good and it just didn’t go. Maybe that’s a true aiming miss
Hahaha, right. That should have been a little 4 pack to start.
I think one of the biggest problems playing alone ALL the time is losing the ability to focus. There’s never any pressure. I try to create pressure situations with little scoring goals etc, but it’s not the same as exercising your focus in real match situations. I can basically guarantee I wouldn’t have missed that 9 in a match (not much pool tournament experience, but plenty in snooker before I moved here 10 years ago).
Great shooting!
I just got my first table a bit over a year ago. With all the practice I've worked out some kinks in my game and I feel like I've been shooting better than ever. Invited a couple of buddies over to shoot some, thinking I'd mop the floor with them now with my newfound skills. Started playing against them and couldn't shoot for shit. Not playing for money or anything - just the "pressure" of playing a friend seems to change my stroke.