You may be right. This data is readily available on the CSI website, but the robustness must be gleaned individually from the FargoRate app and 48 people is too much.
Fargo Breakdown - Singles @ BCAPL Nationals
- Thread starter sbpoolleague
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You may be right. This data is readily available on the CSI website, but the robustness must be gleaned individually from the FargoRate app and 48 people is too much.
Doesn't matter he wasn't established when he played those games. The quality of his play or 'speed' didn't change as his rating became established. What is his win:loss record for players that are 85 points below his current value?
You were the one that wanted to put doubt in those games. I was repeating your words.
You should do Mike Page a favor and stop trying to talk on his behalf. You are failing miserably the more you respond.
I guess I gave you to much credit. I thought you understood what it meant to be established
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I think Rob's point was that because we have almost 9,000 games for SVB, we are able to look at his record against opponents near any particular rating and get meaningful results.
For a player who is unestablished or barely established, we cannot do this. Their few hundred games are scattered here and there against opponents of many different ratings.
The data is fine. We just can't do this particular analysis.
This is unfortunate. I was under the impression as were many others that if our league scores were being submitted that they were being entered.
Why were league operators even submitting scores if it would not have an impact on any player's ranking? I am ranked a 533 with 19 games in the system. I went 41-14 this reason against a scattering of players mostly being in the mid 500s to mid 600s. I was actually interested to see how my rating would change based on one game each vs players of that caliber. This was my last season playing BCA so I guess I will never know.
I hope this is all worked out before Nationals next year.
Here I've gone down the list a ways putting in robustnesses to get an idea.
Of the 29 players here,
15 have established ratings
10 have preliminary ratings more influenced by performance than by a starter rating
4 have preliminary ratings more influenced by a starter rating than by performance
This of course includes the games played in the tournament itself. So yes, a few of these players would have been in gold last year.
And no doubt we will have players in gold this year that--when all is said and done--play at a higher level.
But that number is shrinking. Last year at this time we had just over a million games in the system. Now we have 3.4 million games in the system.
Attachments
Is there a list of leagues and tournaments where data is used? Why would some league data be entered and some not. My understanding is our LO turns in win loss records only but even that data isn't entered. This is a BCA league. What is interesting is the players are listed with starter ratings but no robustness. Is it assumed all these players don't play any longer. It would be nice to see a date for last data entered next to a name. Think I have a 67 robustness but that's data from 2012. As nice a Fargo could be. It's not like I can tell any players in our league about it. There name may be in the system and the can look up a buddy. However there is no data and this is a fairly large league.
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The mechanism to get league data in is through our new league management software, FargoRate LMS. We will be describing this in some detail at Vegas next week. This will support a variety of round-robin formats, have built-in handicapping mechanisms for those that want it based on Fargo Ratings, have mobile-devise scoring, and feed games immediately into FargoRate. So play league Tuesday night; check impact on your rating Wednesday morning.
People should not, in general, expect past and current league using other software to be in. There is a lot of past league data we have been able to get in, and I expect there are divisions of current league data that we will be able to get in at some point later.
Thank you Mike. I would have done that myself but at some point I have to pay attention to my wife. :grin:
sb -- I was just curious out of the list of top finishers in the open last year, how many decided to come back this year and put money back in the system? (to me this is why the BCAPL has not grown the past years - people cash out and then never come back. figuring out how to get them to come back is the key).
It's not the scores that league operators are required to send into the BCAPL office but the compiled stats (total weeks played, W-L, etc). Why are we REQUIRED to do this? Because the BCAPL wants to make sure that leagues are legitimate. Players must have 8 weeks of play in a sanctioned league to be eligible to play teams in the BCAPL Nationals. It would be really easy for someone to create a fake league so that its "players" could qualify for the Nationals without ever picking up a stick in league.
Most BCAPL league operators use LeagueSys, a web-based league management system that allows operators to manage and update seasons, divisions, teams, players, match results, and more. I'm pretty sure if scores are entered using LeagueSys that they automatically get put into the FargoRate system. I know this is true for USAPL, CSI's other league.
Some operators, like myself, have their own league management software, thus we don't use LeagueSys. What we do is to manually compile the stats and send them via email (or other means) to Lucy, Amy, or any of the other incredible staff at the BCAPL office. These stats (usually) do not show individual game results, just overall won-loss records. That's why your results were not entered into Fargo.
Here are the 32 returning players from the top 96 finishers of last year's Men's Open Singles tourney. Current Fargo Rating is in parenthesis.
3. Darcy Gilkes (661) - $4200 - PLATINUM
4. Rigoberto Pena (686) - $3300 - PLATINUM
9. Adam Sisneros (659) - $1400 - PLATINUM
17. Eugene Baker (631) - $850 - PLATINUM
17. Mike Crookedneck (641) - $850 - PLATINUM
17. Jarred Schlauch (675) - $850 - PLATINUM
25. John Marion (627) - $650 - PLATINUM
33. Chris Makela (577) - $450 - GOLD
33. Billy Gallagher Jr (643) - $450 - PLATINUM
33. Jonathan Ludwig (656) - $450 - PLATINUM
33. Ben Sutherland (635) - $450 - PLATINUM
33. Leo Violette III (650) - $450 - PLATINUM
33. Tony Zubec Jr (635) - $450 - PLATINUM
49. Chad Barber (624) - $350 - GOLD
49. Darryl Cowan (600) - $350 - GOLD
49. Tyler Fleishman (637) - $350 - PLATINUM
49. Richard Louapre (648) - $350 - PLATINUM
65. Steven Book (543) - $250 - GOLD
65. Russell Cearley (617) - $250 - GOLD
65. David Chow Jr (608) - $250 - GOLD
65. Cody Clark (596) - $250 - GOLD
65. Alex Kanapilly (614) - $250 - GOLD
65. Sam Prasad (587) - $250 - GOLD
65. Reginald Runnels (525) - $250 - GOLD
65. Michael Scheehl (547) - $250 - GOLD
65. Dave Schneider Jr (610) - $250 - GOLD
65. Ed Slade (586) - $250 - GOLD
65. Paul Verhulst (582) - $250 - GOLD
65. Chisolm Woodson (623) - $250 - GOLD
65. Martin Wragg (559) - $250 - GOLD
65. Darren Churchill (644) - $250 - PLATINUM
65. David Escobedo (445) - $250 - SILVER
Thanks SB --- this is what the BCAPL needs to figure out how to get a better re-participation of players. 32 out of the top 96 aren't playing. That's not good.
Actually 64 of the top 96 are not playing. But they are not playing in 8-BALL SINGLES. I did not check to see if they registered for 9-ball singles or any of the team events.
You are right about getting better re-participation, and I think that was one of the reasons that CSI just hired a new marketing manager.
Is this common? In the past when did you move up to the next division?
I have never went to nationals, just curious.
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It was based on your performance in previous years.
Unfortunately this doesn't seem to be the case, at least not across the board. The BCAPL group I participate in uses leaguesys and what is represented in fargorate for us seems a bit random, some players have data, others who have played multiple sessions have none.
I'm sure it will improve with time.
