Interesting. It is easy for a person to find a fault in something, whether correct or not. It takes a true professional to fix the fault they found.
FargoRate Alex Pagulayan
- Thread starter alphadog
- Start date
Interesting. It is easy for a person to find a fault in something, whether correct or not. It takes a true professional to fix the fault they found.
Thank you for posting this. Hope the powers that be realize this.
Those are some real handicaps. Are the 5's and 6's able to win?
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I can't speak to where it will be used because that depends on humans adopting its use and frankly not everyone is smart enough to realize that it should be used and when it should be used. Some people will have other competing interests and motives at work too and the fact that it is better will not be what is most important to them.
I can only speak to where it should be used. It should replace every other handicapping and ranking system out there as it is vastly superior. It should also be used by anyone that handicaps matches for any other reasons including for betting. I'm not saying that if you are betting on matches for example to solely use FargoRate as your only guide (although I bet it predicts results much better than you do), but use it along with your own knowledge of specific factors involved in a specific match up (like so and so has been in a slump and playing bad recently, or so and so's performance always seems to suffer when they are tired as examples).
Whatever point you were trying to make here isn't the least bit clear if there was a point at all. All I could really gather is that you feel that all the other ranking systems out there outside of FargoRate are crap. I couldn't agree with you more and that is why they should be replaced with FargoRate which while not absolutely perfect, because no system ever could be, is a close to perfect as could ever be possible and is miles ahead of everything else which it should be replacing.
I bet FargoRate does a better job at predicting match results than you do. The next big tournament that comes around, take the first twenty first round matches and create a thread giving your predictions for who wins each of those matches and by what final score. Also list what FargoRate predicts. Then lets see what happens. Even though you have the heavy advantage by knowing who has been in stroke or in a slump recently, and who has the flu, etc, I bet FargoRate still beats you convincingly. I also bet that you won't do it to find out because contrary to all your grandstanding and complaints you too are actually very worried that FargoRate will beat you.
One thing we all agree on is that FargoRate will get even better with more data. You are one of the people who is most vocal about wanting it to be better. The best way to do that is contact every league operator, tour director, and individual tournament director and ask them to submit all their match statistics to FargoRate for their inclusion. Yet when I asked if you had bothered to do this, you ignored the question. I will ask you again, have you done this or do you just enjoy sitting around complaining as vocally as possible about how you wish FargoRate was better instead of actually doing something that would take almost no effort and that would actually help make it better? Who have you contacted?
Is Fargorate currently being used in leagues and if so where? How would one go about securing an area for Fargorate leagues?
As most of you know I'm not a huge "league" fan, this is because of the broken systems they use. I would be all in with Fargorate as the handicapping system, fair and accurate with no punishment for moving up.
In fact Fargorate could be used to entice/encourage people to move up - think monthly tournaments with 575 or 600 min rating to play the event. Bi yearly event of 650 or higher to play. All the while still using handicaps for the event.
Of course somebody would try to "game" the system, but with a required # of games or weeks played in league it would become financially nonprofitable to attempt. Just a starting point and a few quick thoughts
Jason
As most of you know I'm not a huge "league" fan, this is because of the broken systems they use. I would be all in with Fargorate as the handicapping system, fair and accurate with no punishment for moving up.
In fact Fargorate could be used to entice/encourage people to move up - think monthly tournaments with 575 or 600 min rating to play the event. Bi yearly event of 650 or higher to play. All the while still using handicaps for the event.
Of course somebody would try to "game" the system, but with a required # of games or weeks played in league it would become financially nonprofitable to attempt. Just a starting point and a few quick thoughts
Jason
You can't say where it should be used only that it should replace every handicap system out there Really ? Try telling the APA with 250 k plus that their system is not working
Until the Fargo ranking is used for baseline handicapping there is no evidence that it works any better thinking otherwise is pure speculation at best
Mini tours use a point system that often has a reward attached to it at the end of yr similar to the PGA Fed X where world rankings mean zero
So just where would their motivation be zero that I can see
I would hope that Fago could out predict me since they are privy to all the info of corse it's the best system to do that cause thier the only one with such system in place nobody else cares , including me ,,
Glad we had this chat though I feel much smarter now
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You can't say where it should be used only that it should replace every handicap system out there Really ? Try telling the APA with 250 k plus that their system is not working
Until the Fargo ranking is used for baseline handicapping there is no evidence that it works any better thinking otherwise is pure speculation at best
Mini tours use a point system that often has a reward attached to it at the end of yr similar to the PGA Fed X where world rankings mean zero
So just where would their motivation be zero that I can see
I would hope that Fago could out predict me since they are privy to all the info of corse it's the best system to do that cause thier the only one with such system in place nobody else cares , including me ,,
Glad we had this chat though I feel much smarter now
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As I thought. You have a lack of knowledge on the subject if you think there is no evidence. Over 7 years of data, millions of games, is plenty of evidence.
My knoledge is over 40 yrs in the pool world over 25 in leagues many being a division rep or asst , or spotter ,, and just how long had Fargo been used in handicapping of levels of leagues ,, 10 , 20, 30 or zero
Hell most people don't even know what or where Fargo exists
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I have been in the system for over 5 years myself, and like stated earlier there are millions of games in the system. I have personally watched thousands of games from leagues, and tournaments in the system. These games include players such as SVB, Justin Bergman, Jesse Engel, and all the way down to beginners
There is a weekly Sunday handicap tournament I play in, yes it works. We match up all the time using Fargo Rate. I have played in many tournaments, Quadrangles, where there are 4 division, based on Fargo Rate. You don't know where the break of each division is until the entries are closed.
To answer your question. You can not possibly have the amount of data in your 40 years as Fargo Rate has in 7 plus years, in fact probably not even in the last month.
Here is an experiment for you and I will use someone well known to make it easy
1. List the last 100 matches SVB has played
2. List the last 100 matches SVB's opponents in those matches have played.
3. List the last 100 matches the opponents of #2 have played.
That should be deep enough
Now rate all those players.
Now here is a question for you. Take everyone you know in the 40 years of pool knowledge you have. Were you able to see, and/or record every game they played so you could truly rank their ability or are you just going of the few games you actually saw? Which would be more accurate?
Now here is a cool thing that nobody speaks of when talking of Fargo Rate. I am available to watch my number to see if I am progressing or regressing. I can set goals, have a clearly defined person or number to reach. Which poses another question to you. Let's assume you have a Master, AA, A, B, C ranking system. If I were an A at what point to do I become a AA? If you answer you know because of you 40 years of knowledge, define that for me. Would another person, in a different region classify me the same, and give the same answers as you?
U
Well by all means since there is a break in the system and obviously this is has been going on under the radar ,, clue us in , the break can't be a secret very long ,
Just how many players are playing under the system ,, we have the biggest collective players here on the east coast ,, even with that it's rare if ever a does a player sneak in for more than one turney and I highly doubt in Fargo , where is that again ,, that players sneak in under the radar unless your the next place to legalize pot ,, simply does not happen on that scale ,,
We don't have AA rankings other than players in rehab , all our local stuff is open ,, see black cats post here on bank shots turney
I guess there is some places where people want a handicap , that place ain't where I play players here don't fret and enjoy the challenge of playing better players even because they believe that's what will make them a better player ,, dam what are they thinking ,,guess they won't be voting the Bern either
As for the test who cares it's a talking point until the day gambling and odds come back to pool when that happens let me know , then will find the dumpers like tennis just did
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Well by all means since there is a break in the system and obviously this is has been going on under the radar ,, clue us in , the break can't be a secret very long ,
Just how many players are playing under the system ,, we have the biggest collective players here on the east coast ,, even with that it's rare if ever a does a player sneak in for more than one turney and I highly doubt in Fargo , where is that again ,, that players sneak in under the radar unless your the next place to legalize pot ,, simply does not happen on that scale ,,
We don't have AA rankings other than players in rehab , all our local stuff is open ,, see black cats post here on bank shots turney
I guess there is some places where people want a handicap , that place ain't where I play players here don't fret and enjoy the challenge of playing better players even because they believe that's what will make them a better player ,, dam what are they thinking ,,guess they won't be voting the Bern either
As for the test who cares it's a talking point until the day gambling and odds come back to pool when that happens let me know , then will find the dumpers like tennis just did
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I said it should be used in any place where they are trying to accurately rank skill levels for any reason. That is telling you exactly where it should be used. Listing them all out individually does not make it any more exact.
We are talking about the best system for ranking skill level which means critera such as accuracy and difficulty to manipulate. If you truly don't think FargoRate is a much better system for rating true ability than the APA system then I gave you much more credit than you deserve, and frankly based on your posting history I wasn't giving you very much credit to begin with.
It has been used for handicapping for years. It is apparent you are trying to argue things you have no knowledge about or understanding of.
You can also compare it to other systems to see for yourself that it is better. I already explained how you can compare it to your own judgement to see which is better. Let me know if you need help in how to compare it to other systems to see if it is more accurate and I will give you some help with that too.
It would help them if they were truly interested in seeing a more accurate ranking of their participant's skills than their point system does. But maybe accuracy isn't their primary goal and for that reason they don't want to use FargoRate and therefore FargoRate will not be helping them directly since they have chosen not to use it. Fair enough, but it still helps out all the other tours and leagues and tournaments who do use FargoRate because the additional data makes it even more accurate for those that are using it. For that matter in helps out every pool player anywhere who would ever like to use FargoRate for any purpose whether it be for matching up with someone, or to help them choose who to bet on in a match, or even if they are just looking to see where they stack up against other players out of curiousity. Contributing your tournament or league stats helps the game and all players with fairly little effort so why wouldn't you want to help out the game and all players when it takes little effort to do it? They have no excuse not to.
So you admit that it is better than people's judgments including yours and the other systems that aren't as comprehensive. So why again are you so against it if it is better than everything else out there?
People don't make it a point to continually make posts bashing something that they don't care about. It is precisely because it is important to them that they take the time and effort to make all those posts. And it is more important to you than most.
Feelings are often misleading.Glad we had this chat though I feel much smarter now
U
Well by all means since there is a break in the system and obviously this is has been going on under the radar ,, clue us in , the break can't be a secret very long ,
Just how many players are playing under the system ,, we have the biggest collective players here on the east coast ,, even with that it's rare if ever a does a player sneak in for more than one turney and I highly doubt in Fargo , where is that again ,, that players sneak in under the radar unless your the next place to legalize pot ,, simply does not happen on that scale ,,
We don't have AA rankings other than players in rehab , all our local stuff is open ,, see black cats post here on bank shots turney
I guess there is some places where people want a handicap , that place ain't where I play players here don't fret and enjoy the challenge of playing better players even because they believe that's what will make them a better player ,, dam what are they thinking ,,guess they won't be voting the Bern either
As for the test who cares it's a talking point until the day gambling and odds come back to pool when that happens let me know , then will find the dumpers like tennis just did
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All this complaining and you haven't even researched it? Wow!
According to the website, www.fargorate.com ( a place you should visit and watch the videos). I don't know when those numbers were last updated.
107,137 players
3,286,748 games
130 countries
On flying under the radar, I can't speak directly for Fargo Rate, so here is my opinion. If I were to make a product and attach my name to it I would test, test and test my product to make sure my hypothesis is correct. Did McDonalds open 1000 restaurants at once or did they start with a store and build from there? Sorry, I forgot you can't answer questions.
I guess my questions are just to hard to answer, so you try to change it to where is Fargo, and others things. That is what happens when someone doesn't have any facts to back their position.
I am sure if you read through all of Mr. Page's posts, and research the website and videos all your questions will be answered. If a question isn't answered, ask him. His intelligence is so far above me, yet he can always put it in terms I can understand.
Your right feeling are misleading and obviously yours are much more than mine or anyone's like APA WPA PGA any Reginal Tour or weekly open tourney because they / me could care less ,, get over it , im sorry it bothers you take a Xanax and you'll be ok
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If you could care less about FargoRate then why do you stalk the FargoRate threads and post so much about it? That is what people do when they care a whole lot about something. People who don't care about something don't waste their time on it.
At least attempt to be honest and don't straight out lie with the statements you make such as the above.
You care about FargoRate more than the vast majority of people do.
If you don't want/need a handicap system or any player ratings, then you don't need Fargorate or anything else. Why complain about something you have no interest in participating in or using? Simply steer clear and move along.
Who knows ? Maybe because he is in a BCA league and realizes that this is another added cost to doing business.
This year at the state BCA sanctioned tournament. Fargo was in place for 9-ball. Handicaps varied to the point of 4 games on the wire to a low Fargo. They may have been 30 or 35 point increments to equal a game on the wire. Not certain, but for most it seemed unreasonable.
Please go slow TD's and realize many entrants are not in the Fargo system fully.
I think what Alphadog wanted to ask is why will league players be paying for Alex's Fargo rating ? Let the pros pay for my rating, BCA.
Go back to Open/Adv/Master/GM, but let the big dogs play everyone with higher entry and a handicap.
And yes we can put our opinions in these threads just like everyone else.
Alphadog didn't mean that at all. How did you surmise that? Express your opinion.
Using some combination of Gideon's gut and the matches he played in the Canadian 8-Ball and 9-Ball championships over the last few days,
Alex Pagulayan is now in the world top 10
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Yeah but what about Daz?
Strickland, Earl (12400)
E Elmhurst NY
Robustness: 2442 Starter Rating: N/A
774 - (established)
Appleton, Darren (847199)
Allentown PA
Robustness: 4786Starter Rating: N/A
792 - (established)