Fear of Feel

[Patrick Johnson]

.I might be wrong on this one but I feel fairly confident you will soon be putting your 2 cents in once again concerning CTE.....a dig is coming because you can not help it.
Let's see how many posts it takes!

Stan Shuffett

Stan, the few times I've talked directly about CTE at all in this thread was when it was brought up specifically by others. If you and the CTE Defense League would stop defending it from every imagined slight, it probably wouldn't need so much defending.

And, frankly, it kinda sounds like you're suggesting whole topics (like "feel") should be banned unless you personally approve them. You do remember this is the Aiming Conversation forum, right?

pj
chgo

 

[stan shuffett]

Stan, the few times I've talked directly about CTE at all in this thread was when it was brought up specifically by others. If you and the CTE Defense League would stop defending it from every imagined slight, it probably wouldn't need so much defending.

And, frankly, it kinda sounds like you're suggesting whole topics (like "feel") should be banned unless you personally approve them. You do remember this is the Aiming Conversation forum, right?

pj
chgo

A couple of post is all it took.

Stan Shuffett

 

[stan shuffett]

Anyone that complains so much has a lack of confidence in the product they provide or how they instruct or else they would let it speak for itself.

Embarrassed for you


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Your hate history for CTE is easily found on this site.
Your responses are predictable.

Stan Shuffett

 

[Colin Colenso]

But with Dave's instructions -- offset the stick 1/2 tip from CB center while aiming at OB center, then pivot to CB center and shoot -- the stick does not end up aimed at the same place on the OB if the CB-OB separation is different for the two shots. Hence, we get different cut angles and the pots are not accounted for simply by pocket slop.

Right. With a 12 inch bridge and 13mm tip width, the angle produced by the 1/2 tip pivot is approximately 1.2 degrees. The further the CB travels to the OB, the greater the cut angle created. Over 5 feet of travel, this pivot will produce around a 1/2 ball cut.

This assumes a fixed bridge length and accurate tip placement and alignment to start.

 

[duckie]

Does feel ever transform into instinct?

 

[LAMas]

Does feel ever transform into instinct?

My instinct tells me to feel...wrong subject.

 

[LAMas]

Right. With a 12 inch bridge and 13mm tip width, the angle produced by the 1/2 tip pivot is approximately 1.2 degrees. The further the CB travels to the OB, the greater the cut angle created. Over 5 feet of travel, this pivot will produce around a 1/2 ball cut.

This assumes a fixed bridge length and accurate tip placement and alignment to start.

Dr. Dave addressed this.



http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/aiming.html#CTE

 

[swest]

uhh.... I don't think this was what Colin was referring to, at all.

He was talking about the fact that the earlier setup was using, not only different cut angles, but a lengthening distance between CB and OB, which accounted for the fact that the same pivot appeared to be valid for different shots.

When, in fact, it was the combination of the change in cut angle along with the greater CB travel distance that allowed for the happy coincidence demonstrated by the setup.

 

[LAMas]

uhh.... I don't think this was what Colin was referring to, at all.

He was talking about the fact that the earlier setup was using, not only different cut angles, but a lengthening distance between CB and OB, which accounted for the fact that the same pivot appeared to be valid for different shots.

When, in fact, it was the combination of the change in cut angle along with the greater CB travel distance that allowed for the happy coincidence demonstrated by the setup.

I used the pic to start the research that Dr. Dave and others have shared including that in the linkie.

 

[swest]

I used the pic to start the research that Dr. Dave and others have shared including that in the linkie.

Ahh... gotcha. I was just looking at the picture, thinking that the link was only related to that specific item.

 

[stan shuffett]

Dr. Dave addressed this.

View attachment 377690

http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/aiming.html#CTE

I addressed Dr. Dave's concerns about these 3 shots and CTE....

Shot 1----7/8 overlap visual 1/2 tip inside, pivot to center. Do not bridge on rail.
** because the cb and ob are toward the end of one square shooting a distance shot to the end of the second square is why this falls into "close up 7/8 overlap for shots that are at zero angle or near that.

Shot 2-----15 and inside

Shot 3 -----30 and inside.

These 3 shots appeared as a study topic in my DVD1.

Stan Shuffett

 

[swest]

Hopefully, Colin will step in here and correct me if wrong, but I think the better picture from that link to support Colin's answer to the earlier setup (by SpiderWebComm) would have been this one:

 

[BLADE]

I keep hearing Stan has an ego. PALEASE!!! Desperate attacks. He is the most generous and compassionate MAN I've ever met in this sport. It's called genuine and true. Unlike most in this world.
NO ONE (or two) CAN STOP WHAT IS INEVITABLE!!! Inevitably is CTE!!!

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Does feel ever transform into instinct?

If by instinct you mean the ability to recognize the correct shot picture without conscious analysis, then I think instinct and feel are the same thing.

pj
chgo

 

[swest]

Well, everyone has an ego. The unknown is how far it will go to protect its owner...

 

[swest]

I used the pic to start the research that Dr. Dave and others have shared including that in the linkie.

And, by the way, thanks for that link. I hadn't visited that page in a while, and it seems like it has been reorganized a little, maybe. Anyway, it was a very informative re-read.

 

[AtLarge]

Hopefully, Colin will step in here and correct me if wrong, but I think the better picture from that link to support Colin's answer to the earlier setup (by SpiderWebComm) would have been this one:

Yes, that picture is better, but it is not exactly what Dave's exercise would yield.

With Dave's instructions, the pre-pivot alignment for shots A, B, and C in that picture would not all be on the same line. They would be 3 separate lines, from the offset position to the center of each OB. The more distant the OB is from the CB, the less angled the pre-pivot line would be relative to the line of centers through the CB and OB.

And then the pivot back to center CB would likely produce different shot lines for each of the shots A, B, and C, rather than the single line of travel of the CB shown in the picture.

But the effect of distance on the cut angle would still be present.

 

[Colin Colenso]

uhh.... I don't think this was what Colin was referring to, at all.

He was talking about the fact that the earlier setup was using, not only different cut angles, but a lengthening distance between CB and OB, which accounted for the fact that the same pivot appeared to be valid for different shots.

When, in fact, it was the combination of the change in cut angle along with the greater CB travel distance that allowed for the happy coincidence demonstrated by the setup.

Correct, it was Spidey's test I was referring to. The shots LAMas is showing have different visuals, so the 1/2 tip offset is along different lines.

 

[Colin Colenso]

Yes, that picture is better, but it is not exactly what Dave's exercise would yield.

With Dave's instructions, the pre-pivot alignment for shots A, B, and C in that picture would not all be on the same line. They would be 3 separate lines, from the offset position to the center of each OB. The more distant the OB is from the CB, the less angled the pre-pivot line would be relative to the line of centers through the CB and OB.

And then the pivot back to center CB would likely produce different shot lines for each of the shots A, B, and C, rather than the single line of travel of the CB shown in the picture.

But the effect of distance on the cut angle would still be present.

I'm a little confused AtLarge. Each shot was aligned CCB to COB, with cue parallel to this line with 1/2 tip IE offset. Granted the positions were different, but they don't effect the cut angle, which is a function of distance, unless another variable like bridge length changes, which was not mentioned. Are we on the same page or am I missing something?

Colin

 

[Colin Colenso]

Does feel ever transform into instinct?

Feel, instinct, intuition, subconscious... all might be used and may seem more appropriate in certain instances. Even strong feel or strong instinct may be applicable. It's a tricky concept I think, but the only concept we have to describe certain aspects.

Missed replying to you a while back regarding 14.1 and potting. I don't consider that game one of high accuracy potting, though all games present tough pots at times. It is more a game of planning and finesse with the CB. Great players of 14.1 have specific skill sets that deserve respect, but they can be quite successful without being great shotmakers. Good 14.1 occurs when no hard shots are needed.