Fear of Feel
- Thread starter Patrick Johnson
- Start date
time, dedication, and meditation
Training one's self to think better takes time, dedication, and meditation. Anapana meditation is a must for those serious about overcoming their own mind....however, very few people will want to face that reality, it's certainly humbling to say the least.
Training one's self to think better takes time, dedication, and meditation. Anapana meditation is a must for those serious about overcoming their own mind....however, very few people will want to face that reality, it's certainly humbling to say the least.
C.J.,
I agree with what you say about our minds. It is amazing what thoughts and beliefs are stored up in there. Most of the thoughts happen automatically, so fast that we are never even consciously aware of them... but these thoughts and beliefs have a great impact on every area of our life. I like to take the time to contemplate situations while writing down every thought that I notice go through my head so that I can consciously become aware of it and analyze the thought further.
One thing I think the great players have in common when "aiming" is their belief. Specifically their belief in whether or not they are going to pocket the ball.
I agree with what you say about our minds. It is amazing what thoughts and beliefs are stored up in there. Most of the thoughts happen automatically, so fast that we are never even consciously aware of them... but these thoughts and beliefs have a great impact on every area of our life. I like to take the time to contemplate situations while writing down every thought that I notice go through my head so that I can consciously become aware of it and analyze the thought further.
One thing I think the great players have in common when "aiming" is their belief. Specifically their belief in whether or not they are going to pocket the ball.
I think that applies to pool in more than just aiming. Success breeds success. Positive thoughts can help to influence the results.
It worked when I needed to quit smoking! It also worked when I needed to quiet my mind for an important match!
It is a lot easier to think clearly...when there is less to think about!
Thank You CJ!
I think being a pool player is to be in a constant state of dissatisfaction and frustration. There is always the missed shot, the misplayed position, the ill-chosen shot. Always something to improve on. And because being in dead stroke means different things to us at different points in our "careers" we are never truly happy as pool players.
Lou Figueroa
Agree to a Point of Seeking Refinement
Absolutely Lou,
Thanks for your comment.
What astonishes me is the simple complexity of people being in denial. I had a great player Shannon Daulton saw me shooting pass banks at a tournament and he came over and told me I was doing it all wrong that my cue ball was coming too close to my object ball and for that type of bank he was right the way I was shooting them.
So he says if you come down here on Sunday I will have some time and I'll show you something that will help you. So I did. He showed me how to draw a mental line on the cloth to a certain point on a rail so I wouldn't forget it and then he said this....all I know to tell you is that's a powerful thing in pool.
He shows me how to draw a line that enabled me to learn out of my own effort and figuring out, how to make 85% or better of the pass banks that I play and this is a system of sorts and apparently not good enough to be classified as "pure feel."
Sometimes I just dont get it, but I understand it.
It seems a lot of the Pivot Systems people left because of the purists and the purists have divisions amongst themselves that discourage any description of the art whatsoever. Who does it help?
Well the main thing I am concerned about is making the game explainable to a New Player. I want him to be able to get to the point of the matter soon enough that he will want to continue playing and grow some numbers and some support for room owners. I'm glad I didn't focus on this market with my product. It would help a lot of them but "Testosterone Poisoning" is in the way. I'm sure when we go to recruiting new players they will love to hear....you have to hit balls until your hands bleed, hit a million balls or you're not good enough to be in our big boys club!
However you learn to do it is fine, old dogs like you, myself and many others don't need a lot of help, but those other the new players might like to get a more apt description as to how to go about having success.
I will just have to accept that I am not the Purest of the Pure I guess! Well it wouldn't be the first time! lol....and I'm glad of it!
Absolutely Lou,
Thanks for your comment.
What astonishes me is the simple complexity of people being in denial. I had a great player Shannon Daulton saw me shooting pass banks at a tournament and he came over and told me I was doing it all wrong that my cue ball was coming too close to my object ball and for that type of bank he was right the way I was shooting them.
So he says if you come down here on Sunday I will have some time and I'll show you something that will help you. So I did. He showed me how to draw a mental line on the cloth to a certain point on a rail so I wouldn't forget it and then he said this....all I know to tell you is that's a powerful thing in pool.
He shows me how to draw a line that enabled me to learn out of my own effort and figuring out, how to make 85% or better of the pass banks that I play and this is a system of sorts and apparently not good enough to be classified as "pure feel."
Sometimes I just dont get it, but I understand it.
It seems a lot of the Pivot Systems people left because of the purists and the purists have divisions amongst themselves that discourage any description of the art whatsoever. Who does it help?
Well the main thing I am concerned about is making the game explainable to a New Player. I want him to be able to get to the point of the matter soon enough that he will want to continue playing and grow some numbers and some support for room owners. I'm glad I didn't focus on this market with my product. It would help a lot of them but "Testosterone Poisoning" is in the way. I'm sure when we go to recruiting new players they will love to hear....you have to hit balls until your hands bleed, hit a million balls or you're not good enough to be in our big boys club!
However you learn to do it is fine, old dogs like you, myself and many others don't need a lot of help, but those other the new players might like to get a more apt description as to how to go about having success.
I will just have to accept that I am not the Purest of the Pure I guess! Well it wouldn't be the first time! lol....and I'm glad of it!
It depends on "why do you play pool". It is why I asked the question. Pool has never been a career for me, so my expectations of performance may be different than yours. I am very happy as a pool player! I don't gamble anymore, but I still play in local tournaments, not leagues, and win my share of them. For me, pool is truly a "pleasure of small motions", I am pleased whether I win or not. It is also a social event, where I get to spend some quality time with friends.
Hi Lou,
IMHO:
I don't know about being 'happy' as a player as that can be a relative term as it relates to 'pure' happiness.
But I do know that when I have been in that 'dead stroke zone' playing with no discernable system or method & my feel & connection to the table & the situation on it were uninhibited by any conscious thought other than to run the table there were no ill chosen shots, no missed shots, & no misplayed positions.
I've been there rather often back in the day when I was playing a lot. Sometimes multiple nights a week for multiple weeks at a time. Not so much anymore but it still comes in spurts.
'Pure Feel' is an elusive entity. It comes to visit us on the outside from time to time for a continued period, though too short of a time for most of us. Then we have a conscious thought that chases Pure Feel back into the deep dark recesses of our subconscious mind were it only peaks out here & there in between being shoved back down by our conscious mind.
Then we are like you say, frustrated & dissatisfied, because we have reverted back to that hybrid of conscious beings with a subconscious in the shadows of our minds.
It's almost like there is a war for supremacy of our minds. I think the subconscious is far more superior but it is also far less aggressive & in fact submissive in it's nature as it relates to being in control of us. So...our aggressive for control conscious mind dominates the more submissive subconscious mind even though it, the subconscious, is the superior 'entity'.
Very many amateur golfers will hit a couple or maybe even only one shot purely & a feeling & realisation comes over them that that is what it is supposed to feel like. That feeling is what will make them go back to a course again & torture themselves with their normal game in search of that feeling again.
The odd thing is that those 1 or 2 shots usually happen near the end of a round of golf on either the 17th or 18th hole, but more so on the 18th hole, when the player was thinking about giving up the game or actually decided to do so & was just sort of finishing out the round with no real care as to the outcome. They then simply went through the motions of making a swing to hit the ball & KAPOW a perfectly struck golf shot.
Some seem to think that there can be a conscious method of 'aiming' a shot that encourages one's feel to come into play.
Others seem to think that clearing one's conscious mind clears a path for 'feel' to surface from the depths of our minds.
I lean toward the 2nd.
But who knows, as I've said, there may be several parameters or levels of what we call 'Feel'.
There are things that CJ Wiley says that rather many see as crap & he knows that. He keeps saying those types of things because he also knows that there are some that get what he's saying & what he means. He continues to throw them out for consideration for those that can get it to get it. Like most good coaches he knows that it sometimes takes saying the same thing many many different ways before it finally clicks for some.
Just some thoughts for consideration.
Best 2 All,
Rick
PS I guess this was not to you, Lou. I guess your post just spurred some thoughts.
Last edited:
CJ Wiley posted this in his "Wrists" thread earlier today.
TOI has not been a waste of time to the thousands that are using and benifitting from their "Touch of Inside" experience.
Maybe it's more about how someone thinks about pool that's essential to improvement? .......just a "thought".
The conscious mind is at the mercy (for the most part) of the subconscious mind. Under the level of "thinking" lurks our beliefs, our concepts and our self defense mechanisms that deal with security and social interaction....it also controls any issues we are having and there's no way to stop it by "figuring it out" because the problem centers in the minds, the "subconscious, and the conscious".
We have on the average of 30k to 50,000 thoughts a day between the two "minds"....this leads to all kinds of possible behaviors, emotions/feelings, and even delusions.....it's very often from a balance issue, your mental "self" is out of balance.
The way to improve you conscious contact with your mental self and the "inner world" is to address the problem at it's source.....connecting the subconscious mind to the conscious mind in a useful, more effective way. This requires periods of "non thinking"......it's somewhat of a paradox - "to improve our thinking we must not think"
This is done through meditation and prayer (which is a form of meditation).....it doesn't matter if someone is atheist, agnostic or a believer (it's spirituality, not religion) , they must at least be willing to believe in a Power higher than their conscious thinking to make any progress. Once someone is "willing to believe" then the door is opened to the process of higher thinking.
I recommend ANAPANA Meditation***, it's a simple way to meditate, where the person observes their breathing at the source, their very own thoughts....."observing" the thoughts is very important in this process....of course this is much easier said than done, the more we think about something the less chance we have of actually doing it.
TOI has not been a waste of time to the thousands that are using and benifitting from their "Touch of Inside" experience.
Maybe it's more about how someone thinks about pool that's essential to improvement? .......just a "thought".
The conscious mind is at the mercy (for the most part) of the subconscious mind. Under the level of "thinking" lurks our beliefs, our concepts and our self defense mechanisms that deal with security and social interaction....it also controls any issues we are having and there's no way to stop it by "figuring it out" because the problem centers in the minds, the "subconscious, and the conscious".
We have on the average of 30k to 50,000 thoughts a day between the two "minds"....this leads to all kinds of possible behaviors, emotions/feelings, and even delusions.....it's very often from a balance issue, your mental "self" is out of balance.
The way to improve you conscious contact with your mental self and the "inner world" is to address the problem at it's source.....connecting the subconscious mind to the conscious mind in a useful, more effective way. This requires periods of "non thinking"......it's somewhat of a paradox - "to improve our thinking we must not think"
This is done through meditation and prayer (which is a form of meditation).....it doesn't matter if someone is atheist, agnostic or a believer (it's spirituality, not religion) , they must at least be willing to believe in a Power higher than their conscious thinking to make any progress. Once someone is "willing to believe" then the door is opened to the process of higher thinking.
I recommend ANAPANA Meditation***, it's a simple way to meditate, where the person observes their breathing at the source, their very own thoughts....."observing" the thoughts is very important in this process....of course this is much easier said than done, the more we think about something the less chance we have of actually doing it.
Last edited:
I agree with what you've posted with 1 exception I actually believe more often in life, especially in this sport we all love that the subconscious mind is at the mercy of the conscious mind. It's that voice, self talk, inner chatter, casting seeds of doubt regarding ability, self worth, inner strength that cause us to falter.
In meditation, learning to pinpoint your minds focus to one point, to essentially reign it in from wandering in all directions utilizing your breathing to do this is the start, but to truly free your subconscious to direct your will you must combine breathing with STOPPING THE INNER DIALOGUE!!! The goal is NO inner dialogue. Instead as you quiet your mind from the barrage of "thoughts" resulting from this inner chatter you learn to direct your will that you would have your subconscious perform by "seeing".
Earlier in this thread in my 1st post I conveyed how I "aim", not at all. I stated that I just "See" a picture or video if you will of what I want to transpire, the object ball traveling to & then into the hole & the cue balls resultant path after contact ending where I want it to be for my next shot. This, is the ultimate goal. To understand that your subconscious mind, which IS what will direct your muscles to perform the shot is not driven or instructed by the "inner dialogue", it responds to and is commanded by pictures, by "seeing it". The little voice is just a distraction making it difficult to focus and see the picture. At worst it's jabbering causes you to formulate & see a picture exactly the opposite of what you want, causing you to miss, exactly the opposite of what you want.
Example, how many times when faced with a difficult shot do you tense up, this disrupts your breathing, your mind starts to race, the monkeys out of the cage now & you hear that inner voice say "careful, you don't want to jaw this ball", unknowingly this verbal chatter has helped you formulate the picture of the ball jawing in the hole, you see it as the inner voice verbalized it, now apprehension sets in, welcome to where your mind invents pressure that isn't there, your heart starts to pound now, the monkey's screeching now "what will everyone watching think if I jaw this", your breathings ragged now, adrenaline & cortisol rates rise. You try to collect yourself but that ship has sailed now but you have to do something so you get down & launch the shot and sure enough that ball rattles in The jaws of the pocket, you can't believe it. How many here have done this? Anyone that says they haven't is a liar.
What I have described above is all avoidable. In other threads on the mental game I've stated there is no such thing as fear or pressure, that these things are created in your mind, a shot is a shot, no matter the circumstance. The example above illustrates this, I've recreated how someone goes from observing a difficult shot & allows the chatter of the conscious mind to cast doubt, creating fear, giving rise to pressure, turns to dread & more negative inner talk creating a vision in your mind of exactly what you DIDNT want to happen & then you shoot & the wheels fall off. You're enraged but your subconscious is happy because it knows it did its job by performing the picture you gave it. It was you who gave it the wrong picture.
Now imagine facing the same tough shot, but your breathing is slow, deep, even, controlled. It harnesses your focus, the railbirds, music everything fades away into the background, your mind hones in on the vision of this shot traveling to the hole & cue ball to precise position for the next ball, your breathing stays slow, even, your heart rate drops, the picture becomes crystal clear in your mind, bright, vivid. The instruction has now been given to the subconscious, you drop on the ball, let go your shot & the ball travels to the hole, the cue ball travels to the precise position you need for the next shot just as you saw it in your minds eye moments before, it's a beautiful moment, not only to watch but seeing it transpire as you've directed your will you've reinforced this picture & it goes in the subconsciouses file ready to pull up again when you need it.
This is your goal, meditation & eliminating the inner dialogue will transport you there & once you arrive you will realize what another refers to as "real eyes" means, you will "see it". I would say say "think about that" but it flies in the face of what I have been trying to convey to you, so instead I'll say "picture that".
Don't really care for anything CJ has to offer. I don't really care for his style of interaction. I don't really care for CJ always telling everyone what they need to do.
And that really goes for all the sellers of systems. Their goal is to sell their product......is their system.
Mediation is not about stopping the inner dialogue. That's impossible. It is about not caring about the inner dialogue. To just sit and listen and let the thoughts come and go without giving any value to them....ie stopping to think about one of the thoughts.
And not eveyone needs to do it. To be told that one must mediate to improve is just plain arrogance. The needed to feel superior to others by telling them what they need.
The sooner the sellers of system go away the better.
And yes, learning TOI, CTE, Fractional basically anything that is not Ghost Ball Contact patch is a hindrance to mastering pool. But that's just my opinion just like the marketing statements sellers of systems use.
And that really goes for all the sellers of systems. Their goal is to sell their product......is their system.
Mediation is not about stopping the inner dialogue. That's impossible. It is about not caring about the inner dialogue. To just sit and listen and let the thoughts come and go without giving any value to them....ie stopping to think about one of the thoughts.
And not eveyone needs to do it. To be told that one must mediate to improve is just plain arrogance. The needed to feel superior to others by telling them what they need.
The sooner the sellers of system go away the better.
And yes, learning TOI, CTE, Fractional basically anything that is not Ghost Ball Contact patch is a hindrance to mastering pool. But that's just my opinion just like the marketing statements sellers of systems use.
Last edited:
I thought you were watching left field,
Thanks for the chuckle.
Sometimes I hear my subconscious mind until my conscious mind tells it to shut up.
Or...is it the other way around?
Best 2 Ya,
Rick
I have never once rattled a ball in the jaws of the pocket.
But if I ever do, I think it will be a sign I'm finally getting close to it.
