Female players

What does this have to do with the SKILL of being able to compete on an Equal Level..........The answer is NOTHING......Get off this BS that the men are preventing women from having the ability to compete equally.......So if you want to keep responding to my post, please stay on topic.....

I spent half the time in pool rooms that I would like to have because of the crappy environment you guys set. You think that has nothing to do with the skill level of women? How many women just flat out walked away after witnessing some of the goings on in pool rooms?

The problem is that when all this bad behavior was going down, most guys just turned the other way. Nobody tried to take control over the environment and tried to make it playable for everyone.

You bet I'm on topic. I'm right on topic.

Do you know how Jean Balukas got as great as she did? In a controlled environment. Her father had great players come to his pool room to teach her and practice with her. He totally controlled the environment around her and didn't stand for anything going on that was even remotely negative near her.
 
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The guys who post here are trying to make the women feel welcome here by posting pictures of half-naked women in all of their posts. See, they like women!

(Kidding - I'm by no means perfect but I find some of the sexy avatars to be creepy.)
 
I spent half the time in pool rooms that I would like to have because of the crappy environment you guys set. You think that has nothing to do with the skill level of women? How many women just flat out walked away after witnessing some of the goings on in pool rooms?

The problem is that when all this bad behavior was going down, most guys just turned the other way. Nobody tried to take control over the environment and tried to make it playable for everyone.

You bet I'm on topic. I'm right on topic.

Do you know how Jean Balukas got as great as she did? In a controlled environment. Her father had great players come to his pool room to teach her and practice with her. He totally controlled the environment around her and didn't stand for anything going on that was even remotely negative near her.

For the last time stay on topic.........Have you lost your mind? Everytime you post you change the reason.. There is no reason on the green earth why men and women cant compete equally.....No reason what so ever.... You are playing the table, your opponent has nothing to do with it. If you cant handle the truth maybe you shouldnt be in pool..... Try Ping Pong....But Im sure you would use the same crazy BS...... Im done discussing this..........Its like talking to a wall.........
 
You see the Williams sisters just physically dominate these dainty eastern European girls. It's all about their physicality and skill. So often they are just stealing. I think they wouldn't fare as well with 126 MPH serves of the top male players.



Good observation (mostly because I agree with it), and it goes beyond gender when it comes to the stealing you're talking about. Even the legless Blade Runner dude from S. Africa who made a big name for himself by getting a spot in the regular Olympics cried foul when he got beat only weeks after the Olympics by another blade runner who, according to the famous Blade Runner, was using blades that were too big. This from the same guy who only weeks earlier and beyond claimed the blades gave nobody any kind of advantage.

Anna Sorrentrom is another good example of what you're talking about. She regularly beat the other women on tour because she drove the ball farther than they did. That was all good, yet when she plays the men she and her supporters gripe about the men having an advantage in driving distance. The reality is that Sorrentrom drives the ball farther than many men on tour, she just can't play as well.

It's really funny, and there's something satisfying about it too, to hear people cry foul, I'm at a disadvantage, only to take every advantage over their opponents and never once see it as such. Or maybe they do see it and they just don't want to admit it. Thanks for your response.

TJ
 
I've coached and instructed more than 50 women over
Most women I taught had a much better feel than most men for rolling a ball to a specific point as long as it didn't involve multiple rails.

Stones



That's an odd one, one I never considered. I am the complete opposite of the women you mention. In fact, I admit that back when I played regularly I had a tendency to use a rail even when it wasn't necessary. That might be a bad thing, but I felt more comfortable using the rail as a target. In other words, cutting a ball into one corner pocket and bringing the cue ball to the other side of the table for the next shot, instead of playing position for the spot I wanted, I'd play instead for the rail, then bounce off the rail to the spot instead of trying to get to the spot direct. The rail gave me something tangible to aim for. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, it's just something I noticed about myself when I played, and your post reminded me of it. I always had a talent for taking the simple and making it complicated which explains why you never heard of me as a player. I never coached anyone, male or female - but now that you mention it, I have on occasion seen some matches on tv where women, and men too, would be in a position needing to go 2 or more rails for position and they'd do a pretty bad job of it. I think it's because they play a good simple game - the right way - and their need to play such shots probably doesn't come up often. On the other hand, with my talent for making things more complicated than they needed to be, I loved looking for the multi-railed path to position.

TJ

TJ
 
Christ, this one's even better than the last...


LOL. It's all about how it affects her. She never once considers the men who have to put up with it. She's like my sister who works as a secretary/assistant or whatever at a law firm in Manhattan. She constantly griping about the men who run the place. In her eyes they represent all men. She won't listen to me though, about all the minimum wage jobs I've had that were filled mostly by men because it was all they could get. To her, in her own little world, the men run her office, so in her own little mind they run the world. She's a victim. Jeezus, it's sickening.

TJ
 
I
Do you know how Jean Balukas got as great as she did? In a controlled environment. Her father had great players come to his pool room to teach her and practice with her. He totally controlled the environment around her and didn't stand for anything going on that was even remotely negative near her.



So, are you implying that all the good male players had the same privileged environment to practice in? I want you to listen to this because it makes sense and it goes beyond gender. Take the sport of poker. It's big. Real big. A lot of good players came out of the woodwork when the game went on-line and allowed people to learn to play without having to deal with a lot of bullshit such as other players screaming, "Today, today", as the new players look over their hand and try under that sort of pressure to do the right thing.

But pool is a different game. It can't be practiced over the internet. Still, poker is a good example of what you're talking about. And it's not as much a gender thing as you think. If the best poker players in the world were women and the internet did not exist, I guarantee you that anyone getting into a game for cash would have to deal with the same sort of sharking you see from male players. If anything, women are coddled and sought out for tutelage more than men, as their chances of competing and winning in the woman's league is greater than that of a guy with potential being plucked up and schooled for greatness against the best players in the world period. If a decent male player sees a female player with potential, she is far more apt to get attention and help than a male showing similar potential. Of course you'll never admit it, but it's true.

TJ
 
Woman: Do you drink beer?

Man: Yes.

Woman: How many beers a day?

Man: Usually about three.

Woman: How much do you pay per beer?

Man: $5, which includes a tip.

Woman: And how long have you been drinking?

Man: About 20 years, I suppose.

Woman: So a beer costs $5 and you have three beers a day which puts your spending each month at $450. In one year, it would be approximately $5,400. Correct?

Man: Correct.

Woman: If in one year you spend $5,400, not accounting for inflation, the past
20 years puts your spending at $108,000. Correct?

Man: Correct.

Woman: Do you know that if you didn’t drink so much beer, that money could have been put in a step-up interest savings account and after accounting for compound interest for the past 20 years, you could have now bought a Ferrari?

Man: Do you drink beer?

Woman: No.

Man: Where’s your Ferrari?
 

From Jean's perspective there wouldn't be any reason why women can't compete in billiards. But from a social and math perspective there are many reasons why women in general and any particular woman can't compete.

First the social, women are treated differently no matter how much we pretend otherwise. They are coddled and treated gingerly. If you're a boy you are taught to treat women differently and naturally, hormonally, you treat women differently. So women in the pool room are unlikely to be treated like one of the guys. The way guys bark at each other, they way they match up, they way they swagger, the jokes they trade, all this is different when a woman is involved. If SVB were going to match up with a top woman player would he ever send a text saying he was going to "destroy with equine intercourse" her the way he said it when talking about Mike Dechaine? I doubt it. Then comes the social stigma that men feel competing with women, no guy wants to be the one who lost to a woman, and the better player they are the more it stings.

Even today when there are more women in the game it's still a social knock when a guy loses to a woman. And women who play well are still described as playing good for a girl. They are not yet treated as simply players. And partly this is because there are still segregated tournaments.

Now the numbers. Well this one is easy, the percentage of women who play competitively is very small compared to the men. And when I say competitively I mean going out every night looking for tournaments and hunting action. There are very few women who do that. So the odds are very slim that women as a group or any individual woman would be able to dominate in a group of equally skilled men. The fact is that the men vastly outnumber the women and as such they have a lot more competitive (and thus learning) opportunities. Mass makes class and the women don't have the numbers. IF women played pool in equal numbers as men then AND they didn't face social discrimination THEN they would be about equally represented in the top ranks of all players in my opinion.

But now, even now in 2013, a really great woman player is still an oddity. They are still well in the minority.

Jean Balukas was the greatest woman player of her era but she wasn't close to being the greatest player of her era. When she stepped into a men's event then she became one of the field only and every player she faced was near to or better than her speed. So it would be tough for ANY player to dominate those fields and the odds that a woman would have the chops to be as good as Mike Sigel are simply too great. Now if Jean had been treated like Mike Sigel then it's entirely possible that she might have developed into the same caliber of player but I am 100% sure that she was not treated that way.

And really not much has changed with the exception that the general speed of the women players is much stronger now. Kelly Fisher beats the ten ball ghost on tight equipment. That's world class speed no matter what genitalia the player has. But can she bring that when the heat is coming back at her? Can she make it through a field of killers who are all just as good or better than she is? Well, probably not without massive experience against that type of competition. That IS the next level and unfortunately because she is a woman, and because there are still tournaments that are women only, she has little opportunity to test herself and go for it. And if she does go ahead and enter the few tournaments that allow women then she is knocked for beating the men who aren't allowed to play in women's events. And that argument does have some merit EXCEPT for the fact that any C-player can also enter any open Pro event but no pro can enter a C-player tournament.

In other words the lesser player can ALWAYS go up in class and try it. And in effect when the women have a league of their own they are acknowledging that they are as a group weaker than the men. Which is fine but we have to realize that as long as it exists then women will continue to face the double standard that they face. And as long as that is the case then in my opinion women will have a really hard time proving Jean right. And I agree with Jean, there seems to be no physical reason why women can't play as well as the men.
 
For the last time stay on topic

I can follow her logic and think she's perfectly on topic with reasons and examples of why women have a harder time getting to the same level of professional play. There's no glass ceiling in pool, and there's no barrier in physical strength. There are mental differences, sure, but women could compete in greater numbers.

As for amateurs, my favorite example is the guy at the poolhall trying to "teach" his girlfriend how to "do it right" when she has better form than he. If she starts to win, he was "just taking it easy on her". :rolleyes:
 
I think there are a dozen or more women in the world that can compete in open 9 ball tournaments, but very few that can compete with men in 10 ball. The break is such a big part of the game now that a weak break is doomsville for male or female. Johnnyt
 
Hi I`ve been watching quite a few matches with female players now and without being a biggot i must say that the level of play is quite unimpressive and it`s is so slow compared to the male players. Mika has run a hundred balls before two girls can finish a set of 10 balls.
I am of the opinion that there should be no male and female divinsions in pool as i don`t see that one gender has a edge over the other. And I`m simply wondering if the level is so low for the female players due to the fact that pool traditionally isn`t a womans sport and since the divisions is gender spesific the female players never get to play with the top guys and therefore the progression is so bad??

Their level of play is different....comparatively, no different than a 5A high school playing a 2A school in the finals. The pool of players (cute play on words eh:) is waaaaaaaaaay different. Compare it to car racing and Danica. Their time will come. Give em a little more. And if your decisions are made from watching Tunica, well the Gals usually play on equipment with the pocket size increased for many reasons. Pace of play??....watch Vivian Villareal play or Janette Lee, they get around the table quite nicely. Not everyone plays at the pace of Mika/Earl/Rodney or even myself when I get rollin'. Since the gals haven't played side by side, with the men....in an event like this for over twenty years, its refreshing and enjoyable to see again. Their games will get better/quicker the more they are around the men. We're all in the same POOL.
 
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For the last time stay on topic.........Have you lost your mind? Everytime you post you change the reason.. There is no reason on the green earth why men and women cant compete equally.....No reason what so ever.... You are playing the table, your opponent has nothing to do with it. If you cant handle the truth maybe you shouldnt be in pool..... Try Ping Pong....But Im sure you would use the same crazy BS...... Im done discussing this..........Its like talking to a wall.........

I've been totally consistent with my comments, John. I'm sorry to hear that you have such a bad reaction, but that's the way it is. Just think of the bully who hits another guy over the head with a pool cue and then a week later can't understand why that guy hasn't been around. I've seen that happen too.

Women don't generally like to stick around when men start acting up. So why is it such a surprise when we're not right there in the thick of it with you all?
 
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So, are you implying that all the good male players had the same privileged environment to practice in? I want you to listen to this because it makes sense and it goes beyond gender. Take the sport of poker. It's big. Real big. A lot of good players came out of the woodwork when the game went on-line and allowed people to learn to play without having to deal with a lot of bullshit such as other players screaming, "Today, today", as the new players look over their hand and try under that sort of pressure to do the right thing.

But pool is a different game. It can't be practiced over the internet. Still, poker is a good example of what you're talking about. And it's not as much a gender thing as you think. If the best poker players in the world were women and the internet did not exist, I guarantee you that anyone getting into a game for cash would have to deal with the same sort of sharking you see from male players. If anything, women are coddled and sought out for tutelage more than men, as their chances of competing and winning in the woman's league is greater than that of a guy with potential being plucked up and schooled for greatness against the best players in the world period. If a decent male player sees a female player with potential, she is far more apt to get attention and help than a male showing similar potential. Of course you'll never admit it, but it's true.

TJ

I think there are always exceptions. Some women can survive in that atmosphere in pool rooms. Not many, though. I think it wears them down over time. Those are my observations of those women. I do know about Jean's history so I wanted to share that because she was mentioned here as an example.

What I think really would have been great is for all the nice guys to take back control of their pool playing environments from the troublemakers. But that rarely, if ever, happens because troublemakers often won't go down without a fight. How many times do you know of nice guys who look the other way and pretend they didn't see or hear anything? I saw it over and over again.
 
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IF women played pool in equal numbers as men then AND they didn't face social discrimination THEN they would be about equally represented in the top ranks of all players in my opinion.

Name one other sporting activity or pursuit where women are hands down better at than men.

And I agree with Jean, there seems to be no physical reason why women can't play as well as the men.

Then it's mental. Fair enough. But if it were possible for women to play as well as men, a woman, somewhere, anywhere, would have played as good as men. Again, you may draw upon any sporting activity since the dawn of time.
 
Name one other sporting activity or pursuit where women are hands down better at than men.
What do you mean by "sporting activity or pursuit"? Women have higher IQs on average than men, enter college and graduate more often than men, seem to be able to stay out of prison a LOT more than men, and live 5-10 years longer, to name a few. Perhaps our testosterone makes us more interested in competition and sports than women on average, and that's what you're focusing on. But if you broaden out a bit to other skills, activities, and traits, women do a lot better than us.
 
Another Perspective

Men and women think about ea situation with different receptors. If the shot requires Ga Young to draw straight back, come off rail and out to the middle of the table, and if the same shot is given to Earl here's the difference. He keeps it simple and just makes it happen, GY does also, But colors, sounds and smells also become involved and....part of the shot. In the long run, I'd think women have the advantage, receptors are getting more info, but that too can, at times cause problems.

Hell hath no fury eh :grin-square:
 
What do you mean by "sporting activity or pursuit"? Women have higher IQs on average than men, enter college and graduate more often than men, seem to be able to stay out of prison a LOT more than men, and live 5-10 years longer, to name a few. Perhaps our testosterone makes us more interested in competition and sports than women on average, and that's what you're focusing on. But if you broaden out a bit to other skills, activities, and traits, women do a lot better than us.

Are mensa tests, graduation ceremonies and breaking and entering considered sporting activities?

:rolleyes:
 
Are mensa tests, graduation ceremonies and breaking and entering considered sporting activities?

:rolleyes:

That's why I asked what you meant by "sporting activity or pursuit." By adding "pursuit" you made it sound like men are better than women at all "pursuits," i.e., everything, not just sports.
 
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