Ferrule "less" cues good?
- Thread starter Pangit
- Start date
Ferrule-less shaft
I have played with a ferrule-less shaft from Kenny Koo for a couple years and love it.
I play mostly one pocket anymore and with this shaft I can put maximum spin on the cue ball without going to the edge of the cue ball and "throw" the object ball on banks using minimum english.
Like all changes you make, it takes some time to get used to, but it works for me.
I have played with a ferrule-less shaft from Kenny Koo for a couple years and love it.
I play mostly one pocket anymore and with this shaft I can put maximum spin on the cue ball without going to the edge of the cue ball and "throw" the object ball on banks using minimum english.
Like all changes you make, it takes some time to get used to, but it works for me.
I have been using Z2 with .4" ferrule or a Starkey w/no ferrule and I like them both cosmetically and believe they are more accurate than "regular" ferrules. It's a bad idea to break with them and it's a good idea to have a fiber pad under the tip.
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I have a Starkey titlist conversion that has no ferrule. I break with it, but am not "crushing" it. Mr. Starkey said that was okay and there have been no problems so far.
I like how it plays, it has a nice soft feel, but I am not sure how much of that is the ferrule. I wasn't convinced at first, but Mr. Starkey said try it and if I didn't like it he would put a ferrule on it. Haven't even considered sending it back!
Good cue and a good person to deal with.
I like how it plays, it has a nice soft feel, but I am not sure how much of that is the ferrule. I wasn't convinced at first, but Mr. Starkey said try it and if I didn't like it he would put a ferrule on it. Haven't even considered sending it back!
Good cue and a good person to deal with.
hitless
I think it must depend on the shaft. I would like to know how heavy tjhe shafts are AZers are commenting on. Ihave one of the cm360,s iput a ferrule on because it felt not soft but weak almost miscue type of feel. But it is a light shaft.I really believe in heavy 4.2 -4.5. shafts they take care of the deflection problem . Good shafts like Gina's and Rundes. with some weight play super.
I think it must depend on the shaft. I would like to know how heavy tjhe shafts are AZers are commenting on. Ihave one of the cm360,s iput a ferrule on because it felt not soft but weak almost miscue type of feel. But it is a light shaft.I really believe in heavy 4.2 -4.5. shafts they take care of the deflection problem . Good shafts like Gina's and Rundes. with some weight play super.
All cue manufacturers trying to lower end mass so it lessen CB deflection; again it will reduce deflection but still deflects.
My opinion for who knows how long is that there is very little need for a ferrule on a cuestick. I can only imagine that when players started using the tail of the mace, it would need one after repeated striking. When leather tips came out, the ferrule was probably already there, but wouldn't be required after the tip became popular.
I don't even think a pad is required, but I can see the benefit on future tip changes. Maybe there's a force absorption factor too that would decrease the chances of mushrooming the shaft.
I think that Ray Schuler who was all about performance and engineering never wanted to use a ferrule either, but tradition seemed to dictate that he use one.
I think a ferrule-less shaft feels more solid (one less ping generator) and should have less squirt for those that care about such things.
Freddie <~~~ one man's silly opinion
Our finger nails protect the tips of our fingers. The ferrule serves the same function on a cue stick. Whether its linen fiber, micarta, or brass as with the snooker cues. Ivory is susceptible to cracking, that's why you see a fiber pad.
Years ago Predator discovered commonly used ferrule material were denser than wood and influence deflection. To help minimize deflection, Predator started putting shorter ferrules on their shafts. Some people here think they went too far shaving the ferrules, ferrule cracking is a common problem reported on the later models. The ferrule on an OB1 classic is made out of wood.
Years ago Predator discovered commonly used ferrule material were denser than wood and influence deflection. To help minimize deflection, Predator started putting shorter ferrules on their shafts. Some people here think they went too far shaving the ferrules, ferrule cracking is a common problem reported on the later models. The ferrule on an OB1 classic is made out of wood.
If I said I disagreed with much of what you wrote... would you hate me?
Freddie <~~~ just asking
I would be interested in hearing why you disagree. Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.
The protection a ferrule provides the shaft with modern leather tips is likely negligible for most players(on playing cues, break excluded). Ferrules have been around long before better modern materials were used for tips, and have likely just remained a "tradition," which some cue makers are finally challenging.
This is just a hypothesis.
Though the only way you can claim or disclaim this to be a fact would to have some concrete scientific data, which you have not provided either. You can claim the "purpose" of the ferrule is to protect the shaft(which you did), but you cannot prove this, unless you have some other information you aren't telling us.
Obviously the ferrule provides "some" protection as it undoubtedly absorbs some of the impact, but, exactly how much, and if the amount is substantial would be the question.
Would be interested if someone out there had the interest, time, and means to produce some meaningful data on this.
I'm entitled to my own facts, thank you very much. Wrong if they be, but I'm certainly entitled to my own correct or incorrect facts.
A ferrule is used to keep hoop strength to avoid or repair split ends. A fingernail protects tips when digging and scratching, not for splitting or hoop stress. I think if people think in terms of what a ferrule really is historically, it should give more insight on what can and should be done in the future.
I don't have a disagreement with this, but I have my own thoughts on the fiber pad, but they're not important for this discussion. People, IMO, should use a fiber pad with an ivory ferrule, no ferrule, wood ferrule... and it's not a bad idea to have a fiber pad on a regular ferrule for all the same reasons that aren't associated with cracking ivory.
. Predator didn't discover this. Just from a fact base, at least Bob Meucci already implemented his thoughts on it years before Predator was a twinkle in the Clawson eye by trying a less dense material than the traditional ferrule material. Bob knew, so Predator couldn't have discovered.
Freddie <~~~ that's what I was thinking
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I can't remember the cuemaker, but he's in Navarre, FL or around there. My friend has one of his cues, no ferrule and it hits AMAZINGLY and surprisingly well. I was kinda shocked. He plays all games with it, has seperate break cue but he has had no issues with it in the year I've known him to be playing with it....and he plays a lot. My best advice, try one. If it's your thing, great, if not, at least you tried it.
I've played with a couple ferrule-less Black Boar shafts, then played the same cue with another shaft with an ivory ferrule and I liked the hit of the ferrule-less shaft better but I couldn't make a damn ball with it because I've been playing with ivory ferrules for over a decade.
I think I've cracked 2 ferrules in the last 10 years and I wonder what would stop the ferrule-less shaft from splitting as well.
With harder hits the leather tip spreads outward and it pulls whatever is attached to it outward as well be it ferrule or shaft wood.
What makes some of you think you wouldn't even need a fibre pad under the tip???
I wouldn't mind trying out a ferrule-less shaft on my Gina but I know with a great degree of certainty that that thing would probably split eventually.
I think it would be a great idea to at least have a G10 plate (about 2mm thick) on it much like the Mezz Power Break Pro shaft... probably weighs next to nothing and would be great insurance.
I think I've cracked 2 ferrules in the last 10 years and I wonder what would stop the ferrule-less shaft from splitting as well.
With harder hits the leather tip spreads outward and it pulls whatever is attached to it outward as well be it ferrule or shaft wood.
What makes some of you think you wouldn't even need a fibre pad under the tip???
I wouldn't mind trying out a ferrule-less shaft on my Gina but I know with a great degree of certainty that that thing would probably split eventually.
I think it would be a great idea to at least have a G10 plate (about 2mm thick) on it much like the Mezz Power Break Pro shaft... probably weighs next to nothing and would be great insurance.
I think these two sentences speak to what I'm saying, even though I'm on the other side of the fence. I have to assume you had fiber pads under your tips and your ivory ferrules cracked (you've been playing for over a decade with ivory ferrules and you've cracked two ferrules within the last decade) ?
What caused the cracking and did your fiber pads prevent the cracking? To me, that answers the question somewhat.
Personally, I think the fiber pads attempt to mitigate the cracking when the abnormal happens, not the when the normal happens. I suppose I could write paragraphs on paragraphs on it, but I won't.
I think you're saying: "I cracked two ferrules with pads in 10 years. Imagine the number if I didn't use pads!"
and I'm saying: "Ivory ferrules crack even with the use of pads. I don't think pads are doing what people think they do."
Freddie
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tank69...I think you might be talking about Ted Harris.
Black Boar is another cuemaker who makes ferrule-less shafts. I've hit with one, and they play GREAT!
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Black Boar is another cuemaker who makes ferrule-less shafts. I've hit with one, and they play GREAT!
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com