Ferrule replacement question

cesarmorales said:
To Killer::

I don't remember ever mentioning doing cue repair work in prior posts. (I have noticed a couple of names being used close to mine, like cezarmorales). All I have ever done is change tips and refinished a cheap cue butt with a rifle stock refinish kit. That was because it was hard to find places to get your cue worked on in locations I was living at the time. We are talking 30 to 40 years ago. Now, my time is worth more than the effort so I have my work done by others and there are a number of good places in San Antonio. All I do now is clean my shafts and shape the tip if it gets out of line. And I have the shafts cleaned and resealed every couple of months at one of the cue shops in town. Everything has always been fine.

I will admit, this shaft was pretty dirty looking at the time I took it in because I figured they would clean the shaft and reseal it like they did in the past during a ferrule replacement.

Let me give you more information about this. I took the cue to the place that has done two or three other ferrules for me in the last five or six years. The guy that did this job is not a kid, he has been a friend of mine for about forty years and a friend of my fathers for longer than that. But this is the first time he has worked on any of my cues. The guy is not new to the pool world by any means but this is the first time I have had him work on any of my stuff. I asked him when So and so (the guy that did the jobs in the past) would be around and he said, I can do ferrules.

I am not standing there watching every move he makes and just checking on things from time to time. As I checked, 1. he had the old ferrule off by shaving it down on a lathe 2. he cut a new ferrule from a rod. 3. he put it on the shaft tenon and it was larger than the shaft at that point. OK, EVERYTHING IS LOOKING NORMAL AT THIS TIME. At that point I told him I have to leave to pick up my kid from school. I took the shaft with me. This shop is not in my neighborhood, I have to drive out of my usual driving distance to get there.

A few days later I go back and the same guy starts working on the ferrule again. I tell him I only have thirty minutes before I have to leave to pick up my child again. Maybe he felt that I was rushing him but I don't see that as an excuse. Maybe twenty minutes later I go back and see this. I asked him what this was and he said something about tapering that down, etc, etc. I did not care to see what he was going to do next. I did not feel it was right to accuse him of anything or argue about it at that time.

So I figure it is time to talk to the guy that did work for me before at this same shop before going any further. So, I took the shaft with me again.

I don't like what I see but before talking to the other guy I wanted feedback from azbilliards. So instead of trying to argue I will just ask him to read this thread and see what we can do about it.

This is not a retaper. I saw him put on a new ferrule, the old one was cracked.

To other posts::

There is not a bullshit story so it would help if some of you would cut out the assumptions. I am looking for a fair way to fix this.

I don't want a shorter or thinner shaft. My first suggestion is to do something like this. Notice how the cue on the far right has a different wood on the shaft at the joint. Cue number 20. Then retaper the shaft to make up for the one inch loss in length. If this adds two or three inches, I would be happy with that. I have a number of cues and 59 to 61 inches all work for me.

http://www.palmercollector.com/3rdCatalogScanAd.html

My cue has an ebony forearm so a couple of inches of ebony on the shaft with another ring would look nice. The cue is not a samsara but it looks alot like this.

http://www.recollectioncues.com/samsaratuxedocue.html
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So much easier, to just get a new shaft, if you have fancy ring work on the butchered shaft, those can be salvaged and put on the new shaft.
 
Does appear to be the old ferrule, aside from chalk it appears you can still see some remains from where the tip was removed. As far as the work goes there appear to be a number of issues. If the intent was to turn this shafts down there should have been a little more time taken. I've noticed a lot of people don't realize that when running paper over the wood and most ferrule materials, you will remove more,wood than ferrule material and ultimately have that dip below the ferrule. I just fixed a similar issue for a friend. Where the ferrule met the shafts it measures around 11.70mm but at the top of the ferrule,it was almost 12.75mm!
 
speedy5963 said:
Does appear to be the old ferrule, aside from chalk it appears you can still see some remains from where the tip was removed. As far as the work goes there appear to be a number of issues. If the intent was to turn this shafts down there should have been a little more time taken. I've noticed a lot of people don't realize that when running paper over the wood and most ferrule materials, you will remove more,wood than ferrule material and ultimately have that dip below the ferrule. I just fixed a similar issue for a friend. Where the ferrule met the shafts it measures around 11.70mm but at the top of the ferrule,it was almost 12.75mm!
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Thats what Im guessing as well, and the chalk is probably from the bottom of his cue case. Im no detective, but I have watched a lot of Dragnet...... :thumbup:

I cant figure out why anyone would doubt it, there are plenty of people who dont know what they are doing out in the world butchering cues every day. What could a person possibly gain by lying about how his cue got messed up in this particular situation? Nothing as far as I can tell.

Maybe I should watch rewatch Matlock........ :D
 
Chuck Fields said:
Thats what Im guessing as well, and the chalk is probably from the bottom of his cue case. Im no detective, but I have watched a lot of Dragnet...... :thumbup:

I cant figure out why anyone would doubt it, there are plenty of people who dont know what they are doing out in the world butchering cues every day. What could a person possibly gain by lying about how his cue got messed up in this particular situation? Nothing as far as I can tell.

Maybe I should watch rewatch Matlock........ :D
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What does anyone gain by bullshitting on the internet under complete anonymity?

Only they know.

This one won't even answer the question of what kind of cue it is that's so rare and valuable. You can believe in the goodness of man Chuck but I've been reading this guy's posts for a while now and don't buy any of it.

JC
 
JC said:
What does anyone gain by bullshitting on the internet under complete anonymity?

Only they know.

This one won't even answer the question of what kind of cue it is that's so rare and valuable. You can believe in the goodness of man Chuck but I've been reading this guy's posts for a while now and don't buy any of it.

JC
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Oh no, believe me, Im a very cynical person who questions most people and things. But, unless this person is pathological liar, and is just lying for the sake of lying...... there is usually a motive. And I see no motive here. Hes not trying to ruin anyones reputation, he hasnt asked for anyone else to fix it etc. All he asked for was an answer to the question about did it look like the correct way to change a ferrule, so that he could go back and talk to the shop owner.

To each their own, but I have to tell you, my wife and I both got a laugh from the line about me "believing in the goodness of man"......... She said, "They dont know you very well do they?" ........ :grin:
 
I would have a decent cuemaker continue re-tapering the shaft and have a new player shaft made. That way you can say you have an original shaft for the cue if you decide to sell it. I personally don't care if my shaft rings match on my playing shafts. With all the LD shafts out there, very few do anymore.

Legally, the cue repairman would have to cover the entire cost. You would have had none of these expenses if the person had done a proper job.
 
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TATE said:
I would have a decent cuemaker continue re-tapering the shaft and have a new player shaft made. That way you can say you have an original shaft for the cue if you decide to sell it. I personally don't care if my shaft rings match on my playing shafts. With all the LD shafts out there, very few do anymore.

Legally, the cue repairman would have to cover the entire cost. You would have had none of these expenses if the person had done a proper job.
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Wow, your the guy with the palmer webpage. I love that page. I have been able to end a number of arguments about cues because of your page.

I have a Schon S-10 I purchased from Javier Franco about thirty five years ago and could never find any information about what model it was until I ran across your webpage about four or five years ago. Back then, I could have cared less what model it was, I liked the way it looked, the way it played and Franco gave me a wonderful deal on it because he was such a good friend of my fathers.

I was at a pool hall and a guy was trying to sell a Schon R4 or R7 to a guy with deep pockets who was buying up cues to collect. He was telling the guy that this is probably the oldest Schon in San Antonio. Without malice I just added, I think this Schon is older and showed him mine. The seller said, noooo, R Schon's were the first ones made. I said, well, check it out on your smartphone, go to the palmer collector and read about the S line. Oooops, I think I ruined the deal.
 
The thread was started because I did not like what I was seeing, I did not want to see what the guy was going to do next and wanted impartial opinions. Impartial meaning, a person not involved in the action. That is all this thread is about.

Of course I feel I should get a correct shaft in diameter, length, appearance, quality and value. The shop owner may come up with something else. When I asked the guy working on the shaft what this shaved shaft is all about, he acted like it was no big deal, like a normal way to do the job. The shop owner was not there, that is why the job was halted.

I want to thank people who have responded with useful information to my question.

I choose to not waste my time with arguments about how it happened, if the story is true, etc.

I never said the cue was rare, somebody else added that part to the story, there are probably twenty to fifty cues made by him in San Antonio. I know of about ten for sure. It does not matter who the cue maker is to answer my question. Only that he is well known, famous for making great cues and has died. The fact that he is dead only means that having a shaft made by him is not an option. I will reveal the cue maker only if it will help with a question I may have later. Such as who do you think makes cues similar in quality and value.

Maybe I am missing something, if you need to know who the cue maker is in order to answer the original question, then please explain.

I have two shafts for the cue so I do have one original. The fact is that when the cue maker died, I started using this cue with another shaft from a great cue maker who is still alive. His shafts are easy to find on the used market. I was hoping to keep the two original shafts as prime as possible. The ferrule has actually been cracked for over a year.

I am getting quotes from cue makers that I feel are of similar quality and value. What would they charge for a shaft with matching ring work, etc.

After I am ready with price quotes and expert opinions on where this repair should end up. Then I will talk to the shop owner.

I add this information only to help people that have valid inquiries that want to help me with the original question and I look forward to further suggestions.
 
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cesarmorales said:
Wow, your the guy with the palmer webpage. I love that page. I have been able to end a number of arguments about cues because of your page.

I have a Schon S-10 I purchased from Javier Franco about thirty five years ago and could never find any information about what model it was until I ran across your webpage about four or five years ago. Back then, I could have cared less what model it was, I liked the way it looked, the way it played and Franco gave me a wonderful deal on it because he was such a good friend of my fathers.

I was at a pool hall and a guy was trying to sell a Schon R4 or R7 to a guy with deep pockets who was buying up cues to collect. He was telling the guy that this is probably the oldest Schon in San Antonio. Without malice I just added, I think this Schon is older and showed him mine. The seller said, noooo, R Schon's were the first ones made. I said, well, check it out on your smartphone, go to the palmer collector and read about the S line. Oooops, I think I ruined the deal.
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The "S" cues are pretty darn rare too. My advice is: Don't sell it! That's a rare cue.
 
TATE said:
The "S" cues are pretty darn rare too. My advice is: Don't sell it! That's a rare cue.
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Yes, that cue is rare and it has sentimental value. I don't have any plans on selling it even though I get ten people a year offering me money for it.
 
Ease off on the Lone Star cerveza and don't try an April Fool's joke in August!

Spend your spare time on letters to Jasmin asking her to reconsider entering Vivian's event.
 
[/QUOTE].\Spend your spare time on letters to Jasmin asking her to reconsider entering Vivian's event.[/QUOTE].\

WOW, that is a great idea, anyone have her address?????

I owe you a beer my new friend!

This is what I am talking about, positive good suggestions.
 
Chuck Fields said:
Oh no, believe me, Im a very cynical person who questions most people and things. But, unless this person is pathological liar, and is just lying for the sake of lying...... there is usually a motive. And I see no motive here. Hes not trying to ruin anyones reputation, he hasnt asked for anyone else to fix it etc. All he asked for was an answer to the question about did it look like the correct way to change a ferrule, so that he could go back and talk to the shop owner.



To each their own, but I have to tell you, my wife and I both got a laugh from the line about me "believing in the goodness of man"......... She said, "They dont know you very well do they?" ........ :grin:
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Not trying to ruin your confidence in ppl Chuck but here is the story:
Possible Story 1: OP flirted with repairs in the past. Gets this shaft(black like hell and cracked ferrule) and decides to try his hand on it. For the old time sakes... He starts the job, shaves the old ferrule off, goes a little bit to much in the wood, puts back the new one and tries to match the shaft and the ferrule. Goes more in the wood and now it looks like a white collar under the new ferrule (if it's new ...see story 2). Looks bad and he decides to clean the shaft but again the hands are not steady and the cutter hits the meat too deep.....bla bla bla (pic verified)
Possible Story 2: same start...only that he decides to clean the shaft only (ferrule wasn't cracked just dirty). He starts to sand the shaft with high grain paper hopping that he'll remove the black/ blue stains on the ferulle and shaft. But somebody used Kamui chalk and the blueing is as deep as the ocean. So he goes deeper and now he has a dip in between the ferrule and wood which he tries to remove with more sanding...and so on and bla bla....
Again not busting anyones balls...just try to understand how an old repairman who does this work for 1k years can do that to a shaft just trying to change a darn ferrule....
Carry on...and I hope I didn't upset everyone...just the ones that matter ;)))

Chris@2015


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
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