Ferrule size help needed

[Kevin Lindstrom]

What are the differences and benefits of different size ferrules?

Why should I use a 13mm over a 11.5mm or vice versa.

In addition why are ferrules different in lengths as well.

Thanks in advance for your opinions on my questions.

Kevin

 

[JoeyInCali]

What are the differences and benefits of different size ferrules?

Why should I use a 13mm over a 11.5mm or vice versa.

In addition why are ferrules different in lengths as well.

Thanks in advance for your opinions on my questions.

Kevin

You use 13MM if your shaft is 13MM where it meets the ferrule. Unless you want an umbrella type configuration.

They come in different lengths b/c of the makers' preferences.
Longer ones have more glue to hold it.
Shorter one have less weight.

 

[Burnett Custom Cues]

The smaller diameter shafts have less end mass which lowers deflection. However, the smaller the tip the more incidental English you might get. Most players would benefit from a 12.75-13 mm tip. I used to think that I needed a smaller ferrule diameter to work the ball but found out I play better with a 12.5 -13 mm shaft. The shorter ferrules are used to lower end mass and deflection by making the end lighter. I’m pretty sure that the wood is lighter than the ferrule, so the smaller ferrules lower end mass. At least that’s the way I have read into these things. I’m sure others that know more than me about the topic will chime in. Look up Dr. Dave’s web site. He gives very detailed info on this kind of stuff.

 

[greyghost]

The smaller diameter shafts have less end mass which lowers deflection.

(Technically increases deflection in the shaft, lessens squirt on the cb....industry terminology is backwards but more marketable...just semantics)

However, the smaller the tip the more incidental English you might get.

(False. The larger and wider radius/flatter tip will help to lessen the effects of bad alignment shooting for center ball. A tip with a smaller radius/rounder hits the ball cleaner from various offsets which lessens the chances of miscueing. A smaller tip especially one with that dime or better shape gives the shooter better sighting of the exact placement on the cb....with better visuals leading to better pin point placement and centered contact of the tip to the ball English merely seems to occur in greater fashion, the player is able to maintain a greater precision of hit on the mark making small offsets powerful and precise, the larger tip burns “rich” the smaller tip burns “lean”

Most players would benefit from a 12.75-13 mm tip. I used to think that I needed a smaller ferrule diameter to work the ball but found out I play better with a 12.5 -13 mm shaft.

(Personal opinions)


The shorter ferrules are used to lower end mass and deflection by making the end lighter. I’m pretty sure that the wood is lighter than the ferrule, so the smaller ferrules lower end mass. At least that’s the way I have read into these things. I’m sure others that know more than me about the topic will chime in. Look up Dr. Dave’s web site. He gives very detailed info on this kind of stuff.

Plastic/phenolic/abs etc do not lessen weight of a shaft doesn’t matter if they are 1mm tall. A shaft must have a threaded bore, its length and a tip. Add a Pad? Heavier. Add a ferrule....even heavier.

If you want it lighter you have to take away from the base.

I might be one of the few who looks at it like that. Always found that interesting the new carbon stuff is pretty much a fancy copy of the first equipment used in the game....base and plain

Food for thought



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[dr_dave]

The smaller diameter shafts have less end mass which lowers deflection. However, the smaller the tip the more incidental English you might get. Most players would benefit from a 12.75-13 mm tip. I used to think that I needed a smaller ferrule diameter to work the ball but found out I play better with a 12.5 -13 mm shaft. The shorter ferrules are used to lower end mass and deflection by making the end lighter. I’m pretty sure that the wood is lighter than the ferrule, so the smaller ferrules lower end mass. At least that’s the way I have read into these things. I’m sure others that know more than me about the topic will chime in. Look up Dr. Dave’s web site. He gives very detailed info on this kind of stuff.

That’s correct. Smaller ferrule = less CB deflection, per the info here:

shaft “endmass” effect on CB deflection

Regards,
Dave

 

[JoeyInCali]

Plastic/phenolic/abs etc do not lessen weight of a shaft doesn’t matter if they are 1mm tall. A shaft must have a threaded bore, its length and a tip. Add a Pad? Heavier. Add a ferrule....even heavier.

If you want it lighter you have to take away from the base.

I might be one of the few who looks at it like that. Always found that interesting the new carbon stuff is pretty much a fancy copy of the first equipment used in the game....base and plain

Food for thought



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Threaded bore or tapered bore ?

 

[Buster8001]

Maybe I'm wrong here (it's not the first time) but, I thought the ferrule was designed to stop the spreading out effect of the end of the maple grain in shafts. Similar to what a pad was designed for use on an ivory ferrule. I had a conversation regarding ferrules and ferrule-less shafts with Tony (Black Boar) at one of the recent SBEs.
So, following that logic, the thinner the ferrule wall, the less deflection from "0". "0" being maple.

Josh

 

[BJK]

Plastic/phenolic/abs etc do not lessen weight of a shaft doesn’t matter if they are 1mm tall. A shaft must have a threaded bore, its length and a tip. Add a Pad? Heavier. Add a ferrule....even heavier.

If you want it lighter you have to take away from the base.

I might be one of the few who looks at it like that. Always found that interesting the new carbon stuff is pretty much a fancy copy of the first equipment used in the game....base and plain

Food for thought



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There's a difference between lowering end mass and lowering weight. Even so, you can certainly lower weight (and end mass) on the tip end of the shaft by boring out the first several inches.

I'd venture that traditional shafts had longer (and threaded) ferrules because the glue of the day sucked.

 

[greyghost]

There's a difference between lowering end mass and lowering weight. Even so, you can certainly lower weight (and end mass) on the tip end of the shaft by boring out the first several inches.



I'd venture that traditional shafts had longer (and threaded) ferrules because the glue of the day sucked.

Yeah bore holes in the front of the shaft are meh 60 years old...laminated shafts about the same possibly little older (neither mainstream for Ed)

Nope nothing wrong with the glue...and threaded that came way late in the game threading ferrules is a modern practice. Longer ferrules were also past ww2, you’ll never find an original ferruled cue that is long (first plastics were black...usually about 3/4”). Ivory ferrules were always installed longer to prevent cracking of the material. Glue is pretty inconsequential to a light compression fit of a sleeved ferrule.

Lastly the whole “bad glue” well is venture to say most must be referencing wood glues which are trash as nothing sticks to them once applied and they don’t even stick to themselves after that upon repair. Like that chair your uncle fixed....it broke again, then again so in came a screw hahahaha. Horsehide is very workable, removable and it doesn’t make the surface irreparable in the future. Lot of fine work from cues to the boulle marquetry furniture Made for dat French king Louis numba one foe.


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[greyghost]

Threaded bore or tapered bore ?

Threaded...was talking about the actual joint


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[Kevin Lindstrom]

Which is a better ferrule size for someone with 20 years experience, 13mm or 11.5mm is what I am really after.

I have always used a larger diameter ferruled shaft but am considering going to an 11.5mm or similar size.

 

[greyghost]

Which is a better ferrule size for someone with 20 years experience, 13mm or 11.5mm is what I am really after.



I have always used a larger diameter ferruled shaft but am considering going to an 11.5mm or similar size.

I’m a pretty sporty player and will pick up anything and get out...and 11.5 is my favorite.....over the years I went from 13/12.75/12.5/12/11.5 I wouldn’t go backwards unless I was forced to

Fwiw


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[Andrew Manning]

Which is a better ferrule size for someone with 20 years experience, 13mm or 11.5mm is what I am really after.

I have always used a larger diameter ferruled shaft but am considering going to an 11.5mm or similar size.

If it's 20 years of experience with a 13mm ferrule, then that will be "better" in the short term. A change will require an adjustment; an adjustment will be detrimental at first.

In the long run you may find you have an easier time being precise with the tip contact point on the CB with a smaller tip diameter. I feel that way for my own game. But the range of places you can contact the CB is the same for each, so the range of possible shots is the same for each. The only objective performance difference will be a correlation between diameter and squirt. The rest is down to which one helps you, the player, strike the ball most accurately.

 

[Kevin Lindstrom]

Thank you greyghost and Andrew for your opinions. I was always leary about the LD shafts too but I am now a big fan of the Jacoby Hybrid shaft. I am considering getting the smaller diameter version of this shaft to give it a try. Just trying to avoid a costly mistake since the LD shafts are not exactly being given away

Kevin

 

[Kevin Lindstrom]

Forgot to add that I have Trump hands with short fingers so I think the smaller diameter shaft will help me in using a closed bridge more often as well. I do just fine with open bridge but am finding I like the closed bridge on more shots now-a-days.