Filipino Dominance in Pool

[the_eradicator]

Thanks for the scoop Fred. My parents are both from the Philippines but met and married in Chicago. My mom is from Batangas and my dad from Bulacan. Unfortunately and sadly, like most Filipino-Americans, they brought my brothers and me up speaking only English, and thus our Tagalog comprehension is pathetic. However, I try to keep the culture in tact with the most important thing...FOOD! I love all the hardcore cooking like dinuguan, kare kare, and sinigang, but I can't stomach balut. I guess i'm not that hardcore.

BTW, my wife is Ilocana...well, at least her parents are. But like me, she was born in the states as well (Boston).

ako po ay taga-Bulacan (trans: I, myself, am from Bulacan)

 

[the_eradicator]

I disagree with the last comment. Let's take big international tournaments this year where both Pinoys and Taiwanese players participated in.

WPC 9 ball- Wu
WPC 8 ball- Wu
Philliphines Open- Yang
SM Asian Tour- basically a split
Greentime invitational- Yang

Other tournaments Taiwanese has won, but I am not sure if any Pinoys participated in:
Challenge of Champions- Chao
World Games- Chang

Taiwanese players don't participate in many other international tournaments other than the ones I've listed (except the tournaments in Japan). It is true that Philliphine won the head-to-head contest, but the Taiwanese as a whole has outperformed the Pinoys this year in most other tournaments where both Taiwanese and Pinoys played. Also, the head-to-head contest happened only once; it would be interested to see what would happen the next time. Like the Mosconi cup, both sides will win some, and lose some.

WPC 9 ball- Wu -held in taiwan where lots of qualified players are from taiwan. homecourt advantage, IMHO

WPC 8 ball- Wu

Philliphines Open- Yang - he definitely won that one but Andam didn't go down without a fight.

SM Asian Tour- 1 for Taiwan(won in taiwan) 3 for the Philippines, Jakarta, Singapore, Manila)

Greentime invitational - Yang - 3 pinoys are in the 2nd round facing each other.... (Django vs Marlon, Efren vs Django) bracketing favored the Taiwanese, JMHO

 

[RED NAXELA]

If the money is there they will come....you tell me why they would waste their time or reputation on anything less than $300,000 - $500,000??? they get that having a bad year in snooker....and that for winning some comps....

So if you think you can get the players(Or anyone) to put that kinda money up??? then kindly PM me and you may get what you wished for....

Also for you information I know a host of good - very good snooker players (not the very best) who have turned to pool and have done and are still doing exceptionally well at it......

it was you who sez they just need to cross the ocean to thrash everybody, so you put up the money. Anyway, you can collect it back from them since you're so sure they'll win it.

 

[Juan]

2005 World Games - No Pinoys participated
CoC - Efren's eyes we're still "poor"

there was a tourney back in 2003/2004 were it was a mosconi cup-like setting between the Philippines and Taiwan... Taiwan's participants were CS Yang, FP Chao, PW Chang, CW Fu, PC Kuo. clearly Taiwan's first stringers against Philippines 2nd to 3rd stringers(by that time) Lining, Gallego, Valle, Orcollo, and Manalo (who was just starting to play 9-ball in tourneys) no Efren , Django or Alex... the Philippines won that event by a BIG, i mean BIG margin.... 12-2(not that sure though).

I guess in an Open, like the US Open, even if the Taiwanese join it, Pinoys are more likely to win it than the Taiwanese, JMHO

Though Pinoys also participated in Asian Games, they also lost 8-ball and 9-ball singal title to the taiwanese.

Taiwanse team only only lost to the Philippines team, but also lost to the Japanese team in the same year.

Besides, Yang also won 2005 the Philippine Invitational Championships ( the participants included Efren Reyes,Francisco Bustamante,Alex Pagulayan ,Kunihiko Takahashi ,Satoshi Kawabata,Young-Hwa Jeong,Chao Fong-Pang,Yang Ching-Shun,Wu Chia-Ching,Johnny Archer,Corey Deuel,Gabe Owen,Charlie Williams,Rodney Morris,Mika Immonen,Marcus Chamat ,Tony Drago,Thorsten Hohmann,Thomas Engert,Niels Feijen and many Pinoys), as I know, it was the first the foreigner won the champion in the Philippine. They also dominated 2005 Brunei 9-ball Invitational Cup - Chao was the winner, Wu was the 2nd, and Kue was the 3rd (Efren Reyes, Dennis Orcollo ,Antonio Lining and Gandy Valle also took part in this tour).

As for CoC, maybe Efren Reyes's fail was because his eyes was still "poor", he only won one time crown in this tour, but this was the third times Chao won it.

If Taiwanese join US Open, maybe they can't win the champion at the start, but I think time and the experience will overcome everything.

 

[Juan]

Greentime invitational - Yang - 3 pinoys are in the 2nd round facing each other.... (Django vs Marlon, Efren vs Django) bracketing favored the Taiwanese, JMHO

Greentime invitational -

Quarter Final:
Manalo lost to Chang Pei-Wei and Pagulayan lost to Bustamante

Seim-Final:

Chang Pei-Wei defeated Efren Reyes and Yang Ching-Shun defeated Bustamante

The Final:
Yang Ching-Shun defeated Chang Pei-Wei to win the champion.

 

[ARM9BALLER]

Thanks for the scoop Fred. My parents are both from the Philippines but met and married in Chicago. My mom is from Batangas and my dad from Bulacan. Unfortunately and sadly, like most Filipino-Americans, they brought my brothers and me up speaking only English, and thus our Tagalog comprehension is pathetic. However, I try to keep the culture in tact with the most important thing...FOOD! I love all the hardcore cooking like dinuguan, kare kare, and sinigang, but I can't stomach balut. I guess i'm not that hardcore.

BTW, my wife is Ilocana...well, at least her parents are. But like me, she was born in the states as well (Boston).

I'll put my mom's Pancit up against anybody! HA HA
My dad is Ilokano.
My mom is Pangasinan.
(I think that's right)
They met in Canada though.
I wish I would have paid attention when they spoke when I was younger. They told me back then that I didn't want to learn the language. I often now ask my mom how to say this or that in Tagalog.
JSP sounds like we have similar upbringings. LOL I just saw my mom the other day sipping on that balut crap. UH! No way, No how!
I do love bagoong and agamang.
Not trying to convert this thread into a filipino conversation. Just proud to be one. Sorry.

 

[Cornerman]

howdy,
In 1953 Philippine`s Basket Ball team was placed THIRD in the WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS.

I've heard this from my father, but I thought there was a stipulation. Like, it was the World Under 6' Basketball Championships. Anyone?

Fred

 

[Cornerman]

Describe some of these foods, I'm always open for new foods to try....

Since this is a post on Fillipino dominance, maybe the food's got something to do with it.

The best way I can generalize Filipino food is... cook every bit of an animal, use the cultural recipes that have influenced the Philippines, and by all means, make sure the vinegar is ready to go in. Cooking meat in a significant vinegar mixture is very common/popular in the Philippines, unlike say Japanese or Chinese food that mostly use it as highlights.

For example, the national dish, Adobo, is chicken and/or pork with whatever liver (optional) braised or stewed in a mixture of vinegar and soy sauce.

"Adobo" is originally a Spanish or Mexican dish that doesn't resemple Filipino adobo.


Fred

 

[satman]

In 1985, I played in a tournament in Akron Ohio. Efren, Jose, And Luat showed up and I was absolutely amazed at how they just calmly walked around the table and it looked like 2 guys just having a practice session. I watched them for 3 days it was always the same demeanor during every match. I had gone to the tournament, {a 5 hour drive} with an older guy from my neck of the woods. I left that tournament with some valuable lessons from watching them play. Shortly after we started back, the older guy stared telling me it wasn't right that "THOSE FOREIGN GUYS" could enter the tournament and win our money. It really made me mad. I told him, " if they can pay the entry fee, and play good enough to win the money, they're entitled to it the same as us." Well things got a little heated for about 10 minutes, and then we never spoke the rest of the trip. I also never went to another tournament with him. I can't imagine what pool would be like without them playing here. As far as the Taiwan players go, yea, there's some great players coming out now, but the Phillipino players in my opinion have helped drive the American players to improve their play. Just my opinion, Sam

 

[vagabond]

I've heard this from my father, but I thought there was a

I do not remember the details.I remember reading about this more than 30 years ago when Ms.Moshe sulliahman ( spelling) was the top women sprinter from phillippines.Fred, I am getting old.

 

[SplicedPoints]

WPC 9 ball- Wu -held in taiwan where lots of qualified players are from taiwan. homecourt advantage, IMHO

It's true that lots of qualifiers were from Taiwan, but the qualifying events were opened to anybody, with 50% of the qualifiers foreigners and many Filipinos. You can blame it on homecourt advantage, but I bet you wouldn't say the same thing about Manalo's wins against Taiwanese oppoents. A win's a win. The players had more than enough time to get used to the playing conditions. Other than the crowd factor, everything else's equal. Besides, there are always quite a few Filipino spectators around.

Philliphines Open- Yang - he definitely won that one but Andam didn't go down without a fight.

Again, a win's a win, doesn't matter if Andam put up the fight of his life, he still lost.

SM Asian Tour- 1 for Taiwan(won in taiwan) 3 for the Philippines, Jakarta, Singapore, Manila)

I am mistaken with my previous statement then. I don't follow the SM Tour much and I got the wins mixed up.

Greentime invitational - Yang - 3 pinoys are in the 2nd round facing each other.... (Django vs Marlon, Efren vs Django) bracketing favored the Taiwanese, JMHO

Juan posted the semi-final results, so I don't need to say more. Also, the bracketing was determined solely by the round-robin results, so you can't really blame it on the bracketing.

I'm not trying to put down the Filipino players. I just disagree with the statement that in an open tournament, Filipinos are favored over Taiwanese players. At best, I would call it a draw with both sides having quality players that can win it at any given tournament.

 

[bruin70]

the "embracing" of the game also gives rise to a better system of development. whereas here in the US, it is every man for himself, which is very stultifying. i also think this attitude also give rise to a lack of interest in all cue games, and this makes US players rather one dimensional.

 

[ghost ball]

Besides awesome pool players, isn't the Philipines producing top-ranked boxers also?

ghost ball

 

[JoeyInCali]

Besides awesome pool players, isn't the Philipines producing top-ranked boxers also?

ghost ball

Not as many as pool players.
There are three Filipinos in the International Boxing Hall of Fame;
Pancho Villa, Ceferino Garcia and Flash Elorde.
Bowling and chess are also huge in the Philippines. Both considered as sport.
Boxer Manny Pacquiao is one of the best pound for pound fighters today.
Manny is also a B player in pool.

 

[Tbeaux]

sjm,

He's basically making a hyperbolic point, i.e. "I guess everyone else should just throw in the towel!", etc, etc. In other words, he doesn't agree that Asians are as dominant as they obviously are, atm. Or he believes that the dominance is a fluke, is short-lived, and is exaggerated. But he won't come out and just say that, or to contribute in any substantive way.

-Roger

Do not try to put words in MY post you ass!
Yes I disagree with the contention that the asians dominate pool!
The Philippinos are great players no doubt, but check the finals of the past 20- 24 major tournaments (winner over $10,000) with international players (Asian,European,North American) and you will find
1) a national mix of winners and those who placed in the top 5 (no domination and yes the Philippines are well represented)
2) only two or three tournaments with players from other asian countries.

So until the philippinos shut everybody else out in a majority of tournaments they are not yet dominant. As to the "other" asians when they start showing up for more opens here or start having more international events in their own countries then I cannot think of them to quote you....as "dominant as they obviously are"...There's nothing OBVIOUS ABOUT IT...not till they decide to come out and play with the rest of the boys!

JMHO
TERRY

 

[bruin70]

Do not try to,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

So until the philippinos shut everybody else out in a majority of tournaments they are not yet dominant. As to the "other" asians when they start showing up for more opens here or start having more international events in their own countries then I cannot think of them to quote you....as "dominant as they obviously are"...There's nothing OBVIOUS ABOUT IT...not till they decide to come out and play with the rest of the boys!

JMHO
TERRY

some things are being taken for granted by both of you. ie the % of participants,,,,either way. not that many americans to go asia, and not that many asians come here.

i can say this,,,,,,,that you've only seen the tip of the iceberg with the asians. china has a gazillian people they have yet to unleash. there is nothing in pool that makes any physical attribute an advantage.....this ain't basketball or football.

so then it becomes a matter of upbringing and pure numbers. asia has a better system in place for spreading knowledge. there is no such system in the US, and everyone here is on his own. and as for numbers,,,,well,,,like i said,,,,there are a gazillion people in china.

there is also the class system in other countries that is not as predominant here in the US. in other countries, you are born into an economic caste, and it is difficult to rise above and be successful. SPORTS IS ONE OF THE WAYS TO DO SO. here in the US, there are many other ways to build a successful career for oneself, and POOL sure ain't one of them.

so all in all, the asian and other countries provide a better breeding ground for success in pool.

 

[Tbeaux]

some things are being taken for granted by both of you. ie the % of participants,,,,either way. not that many americans to go asia, and not that many asians come here.

i can say this,,,,,,,that you've only seen the tip of the iceberg with the asians. china has a gazillian people they have yet to unleash. there is nothing in pool that makes any physical attribute an advantage.....this ain't basketball or football.

so then it becomes a matter of upbringing and pure numbers. asia has a better system in place for spreading knowledge. there is no such system in the US, and everyone here is on his own. and as for numbers,,,,well,,,like i said,,,,there are a gazillion people in china.

there is also the class system in other countries that is not as predominant here in the US. in other countries, you are born into an economic caste, and it is difficult to rise above and be successful. SPORTS IS ONE OF THE WAYS TO DO SO. here in the US, there are many other ways to build a successful career for oneself, and POOL sure ain't one of them.

so all in all, the asian and other countries provide a better breeding ground for success in pool.

Bruin,

I agree with every point in your post. However, "it ain't over till Efren puts on a dress and wig and sings" (or maybe it's "till the fat lady sings"?).
If the chinese players want to claim they are "dominant" then they're gonna hafta prove it.
Speaking of schools where the hell are these schools the WPA is supposed to have established for the betterment of the sport? Sure don't appear to be in the USA or the Philippines!

Terry

 

[bruin70]

Bruin,

.
Speaking of schools where the hell are these schools the WPA is supposed to have established for the betterment of the sport? Sure don't appear to be in the USA or the Philippines!

Terry

there has to be some sort of "spirit of cooperation" amongst the pool industry folk before that ever happens.

 

[Boro Nut]

If the chinese players want to claim they are "dominant" then they're gonna hafta prove it.

China is more likely to concentrate their efforts on snooker. Ding is making quite a name for himself, and his first ranking win can't be too far away - maybe even this current UK Championship. It's the next generation who will want to emulate him that will bring the biggest challenge to the UK stranglehold.

Boro Nut

 

[jnav447]

SNAPSHOT is on the mark, IMO. Like him, I spent time in the Philippines in the Navy, and, from what I observed, Filipinos are good at just about everything they do. The Filipino players have the perfect demeanor for high-pressure pool and the fluid stroke that enables them to handle any equipment/conditions. I was in California in the 60's & 70's, and players from Mexico would come through and just bust everyone (usually playing with a house cue). They all said the equipment was so much better here that the game seemed easy, so I think there is something there. Whatever the reason, the Filipinos are great players and great guys. Wonder if there are any topnotch Filipino women in the R of P waiting to conquer?