Filipino Dominance in Pool

I had been following this thread for a while, but I lost my old username and couldn't post until today. I'll just be sniping in with a few comments...

Gambling really is a big part of the Filipino culture. How much it really helps us in pool is debatable.

There is a huge following for pool in the Philippines. A lot of foreign (read:non-Filipino) players love it here because they enjoy celebrity status.

There is zero government support for pool. Children are exposed to the game early because there are lots of places to play, where kids can pay like 15 cents a game.

There was a comment made on how Asians gravitate towards other sports where size doesn't matter... Well the Philippines has the oldest pro basketball league in Asia. We are a very basketball rabid country.

The equipment here is pretty crappy, generally speaking. Ok, ok, they're really crappy period. With the exception of maybe 3 or 4 places, we don't really have pool halls that are 'pro tournament standard' so to speak. But then again, I can't really say. I haven't played pool outside of the Philippines. From what I've heard though, it's way different.

These are just some insights I wanted to share based on some comments made in this thread. Overall, I'd say Filipinos are good players, just because. :D
 
Boro Nut said:
China is more likely to concentrate their efforts on snooker. Ding is making quite a name for himself, and his first ranking win can't be too far away - maybe even this current UK Championship. It's the next generation who will want to emulate him that will bring the biggest challenge to the UK stranglehold.

Boro Nut
Yes Mainland China is snooker dominant and Ding's success is spuring on a growing bunch of potential snooker champions.

The women are getting into pool more with Pan Xiao Ting and Zhou Meng Meng both arguably in the World's top 10 women players.

If money comes into pool on the mainland, there will soon be a flood of great male players.

In Taiwan of course, pool is dominant and the level and depth of play possibly exceeds the Philippines.

The reason (having come from the west to the east):
In Australia, the UK and US, when you're a kid and you say you want to be a pool player, your parents sign you up in the local league, or get you a coach one day a week or send you on a coaching camp or simply tolerate the kid hanging out at the pool hall after school or some such half a$$ed thing.

In China, if a kid says he/she wants to play pool, the parent is likely to decide that this is a career choice at put the kid to work 8 hours a day. The whole thing is taken very seriously. Just as the asian students tend to take their study more seriously. They are conscious of the financial situation of their parents and family and feel an obligation to work hard.

When you have a thousand such kids practicing 8 hours a day from age 13 to 18, all of them are great players and a few of them are outstanding.
 
Last edited:
After taking the Southeast Asian Games by storm, pool wonder Rubilen Amit is now looking to conquer the world.

The 24-year-old BS Accountancy graduate from the University of Sto. Tomas is now sharpening her skills for the ultimate test in pool – the World Pool Championship.

"Kaya ring gawin ng mga Pinay ang kayang gawin ng mga Pinoy," said Amit, taking into account the world championship romps of Efren "Bata" Reyes and Alex Pagulayan.

The women’s version of WPC will be held in March in Taiwan. Waiting her there are the likes of world renowned lady pool sharks Karen Corr and Alison Fisher.

Her good friend and fellow national player Iris Rañola had been there before, but didn’t last long.

Amit is confident. "Pare-pareho lang naming kayang umubos ng bola," she said.

She may sound cocky, but she’s got the game to back up her words.

The Cebuana stamped her name in local pool history when she went undefeated in the qualifying round of this year’s Philippine 9-Ball Open to become the first and only female player to make the cut in the main draw of any national open for men.

Amit is also untouchable in the region, sweeping her way to the gold medal in both the 8-ball and 9-ball singles of the 23rd Southeast Asian Games.

She capped her dominating show with an 11-0 thrashing of Malaysian Suhana Dewi B Sabtu in the gold medal match of 9-ball.

Amit credited her current form to the training program facilitated by billiards godfather Aristeo "Putch" Puyat.

"Malaking bagay sa game at confidence ko ‘yung inilaban kami ni sir Putch sa mga local pros natin," she said. "Alam naman natin na world class ‘yung mga players natin sa men’s."

Other pool association officials have also taken notice.

"Kumpleto ang laro ni Rubilen at may diskarte sa table," observed Billiards and Snooker Congress of the Philippines (BSCP) president Ernesto Fajardo.

The former Asian 8-ball queen can run out, clean up and play safe. She can bank, carom, hit a combination and even make a jump shot.

"She’s fundamentally sound at andun ‘yung patience," said Boyet Asonto, Amit’s long-time mentor.


SOURCE:

http://www.mb.com.ph/SPRT2005121351618.html
_________________

Don't look now but one Filipina can play as well.
10520235581.jpg
 
Colin Colenso said:
Yes Mainland China is snooker dominant and Ding's success is spuring on a growing bunch of potential snooker champions.

The women are getting into pool more with Pan Xiao Ting and Zhou Meng Meng both arguably in the World's top 10 women players.

If money comes into pool on the mainland, there will soon be a flood of great male players.



When you have a thousand such kids practicing 8 hours a day from age 13 to 18, all of them are great players and a few of them are outstanding.

Colin,

I'm curious ....sounds like snooker is king there but the players are well versed in everthing they need to know for pool. They don't travel to the outside much for various reasons I guess. So what's billiards gambling like there (mainland and HK)? How are women players treated (equal or second class like so many other places)?

Terry
 
Tbeaux said:
Do not try to put words in MY post you ass!
Yes I disagree with the contention that the asians dominate pool!
The Philippinos are great players no doubt, but check the finals of the past 20- 24 major tournaments (winner over $10,000) with international players (Asian,European,North American) and you will find
1) a national mix of winners and those who placed in the top 5 (no domination and yes the Philippines are well represented)
2) only two or three tournaments with players from other asian countries.

So until the philippinos shut everybody else out in a majority of tournaments they are not yet dominant. As to the "other" asians when they start showing up for more opens here or start having more international events in their own countries then I cannot think of them to quote you....as "dominant as they obviously are"...There's nothing OBVIOUS ABOUT IT...not till they decide to come out and play with the rest of the boys!

The "rest of the boys" are weak competition, and to suggest that the Taiwanese/Filipinos need to prove their dominance by playing here is ridiculous. It's like denying the status of American rodeo competitors because they've never traveled to tournaments in Bangladesh.

The last two WPC's were largely dominated by Taiwanese players in the latter stages, and invariably their stars (chao, yang, hsia) folded before many unknown Taiwanese qualifiers. The pro tour in Taiwan has 3 tiers, and I can count on one hand the number of Americans that can qualify onto any of them. That's the sad truth, please accept it and move on.

The depth of talent in Taiwan is the result of two decades of careful cultivation by the pool association, with huge injections of capitol from the government. There are long-established channels to guide promising young players to maximize their potential. The exposure in live television is also a tremendous aid to growing the sport, as well as honing the players for that type of pressure. Very tough equipment is yet another contributing factor. My point is, the results are no accident, and certainly cannot be denied.

In any case, I think I chose the words I put in your mouth wisely. IOW, your opinion is what I expected. At least now you're participating in a meaningful way.

-Roger
 
buddha162 said:
The "rest of the boys" are weak competition, and to suggest that the Taiwanese/Filipinos need to prove their dominance by playing here is ridiculous. It's like denying the status of American rodeo competitors because they've never traveled to tournaments in Bangladesh.

The last two WPC's were largely dominated by Taiwanese players in the latter stages, and invariably their stars (chao, yang, hsia) folded before many unknown Taiwanese qualifiers. The pro tour in Taiwan has 3 tiers, and I can count on one hand the number of Americans that can qualify onto any of them. That's the sad truth, please accept it and move on.

The depth of talent in Taiwan is the result of two decades of careful cultivation by the pool association, with huge injections of capitol from the government. There are long-established channels to guide promising young players to maximize their potential. The exposure in live television is also a tremendous aid to growing the sport, as well as honing the players for that type of pressure. Very tough equipment is yet another contributing factor. My point is, the results are no accident, and certainly cannot be denied.

In any case, I think I chose the words I put in your mouth wisely. IOW, your opinion is what I expected. At least now you're participating in a meaningful way.

-Roger

First, I do not include the players from the Philippines in any statements about coming out to play....they do! But, they are not dominant....just extremely successful.
Second, I do not deny the players from Taiwan or the mainlain can play and have "game". But, they only play international tournaments two or three times a year. The rest of the time they seem to only play each other. So, if your point is the players from N. America and Europe are not worthy competition, then fine, let them be isolationists. The "weak players" from N.America, Europe, Philippines will continue to collect the winnings.

Terry
 
Tbeaux said:
Colin,

I'm curious ....sounds like snooker is king there but the players are well versed in everthing they need to know for pool. They don't travel to the outside much for various reasons I guess. So what's billiards gambling like there (mainland and HK)? How are women players treated (equal or second class like so many other places)?

Terry
Terry,
Pool halls in the main cities in China, of which there are at least a couple of thousand, have been replacing their snooker tables with pool tables over the last 10 years. Now about 50% of the tables are pool tables. About 70% in the larger more successful clubs I estimate.

They don't travel due to visa difficulties or simply lack of funds. Also, there are not many league or tournament opportunities for players here compared to the west.

Gambling is rare in my experience but I'm sure there are some pockets of activity.

Hong Kong has VERY FEW pool tables from what I hear. Almost entirely snooker.

Women are treated pretty well I believe. In fact there are more high profile women's events here than men's events in pool.

Colin
 
Tbeaux said:
First, I do not include the players from the Philippines in any statements about coming out to play....they do! But, they are not dominant....just extremely successful.
Second, I do not deny the players from Taiwan or the mainlain can play and have "game". But, they only play international tournaments two or three times a year. The rest of the time they seem to only play each other. So, if your point is the players from N. America and Europe are not worthy competition, then fine, let them be isolationists. The "weak players" from N.America, Europe, Philippines will continue to collect the winnings.

Terry

The statement that N.American and European players are weak competition is definately wrong. There are many reasons why Taiwanese players don't play in many N. American tournaments.

The biggest reason is MONEY. It is expensive to travel a long way to a tournament. The hotel, the airfare, and other expenses adds up to a significant amount very quickly. If you compare the payout of most of the tournaments in the States to the expenses required to compete in them, most players can't justify playing. Plus, there are currently not enough true big-payout tournaments in N. America.

The second reason is language. Unlike the Philliphines, English is not a common spoken language in Taiwan. Even though guys like Efren and Busta don't exactly qualify as English teachers, they can hold basic conversations and understand most of what goes on within a pool hall. I believe the Filipino players have always had backers or guides that travel with the players, so it is much easier for Filipino players to get action.

Third is competition. The competition in Asia (Japan, Taiwan, Philliphines, Korea, and some players from the rest of the countries) is fierce, probably higher than the average leve of competition in Europe or N.America. If you don't have to travel a long way to get world-class competition, why should you?

Fourth is the fact that there are already many tournaments (local Taiwanese and Asian tournaments) to compete in in Asia. You have the SM tour with many stops, two or three big tournaments in Japan yearly, Philliphines Open, Brunei Open, and the host of decent pay-out tournaments in Taiwan, the need to go play in N.American tournaments does not exist. Maybe the IPT would change that, but they need to get the political thing figured out first.

Fifth, most of the Taiwaense players have jobs either as coaches or pool-hall owners. Theyv'e already have job obligations, so the time is limited. In addition, some players can get action in Asia already (Taiwan and Japan mostly), so the need to get the limited action in the States is not there.

Lastly, Taiwanese players participate in "International" tournaments more than 2 or 3 times an year. WPC, WPC 8 Ball, All Japan Open, Philliphines Open, CoC, numerous International tournaments in Taiwan every year, World Pool Masters (although by invitation only and only 1 player per year), Brunei Open, and probably others. In the tournaments the Taiwanese participate in, they've done extremely well. They just don't compete in the usual "international" N.American tournaments, like the US Open, BCA, and the other semi-internaional events. I bet many of the American pros are not at all unhappy that the Taiwanese, or many of the Filipino and Japanese, rarely play in the N. American tournaments.
 
Last edited:
Filipinos will be among the top pool players for a lot more years. Almost everything had been said about us Filipinos but I think nobody had mentioned that we have 84 million population which is bigger than Australia and some other big nations. A big talent pool indeed.
 
cang-ipos said:
Filipinos will be among the top pool players for a lot more years. Almost everything had been said about us Filipinos but I think nobody had mentioned that we have 84 million population which is bigger than Australia and some other big nations. A big talent pool indeed.

Just curious, but have the lady players in the Philippines had the same competitive opportunities as the men players, as far as availability and payouts? And is the game of 15-ball rotation still the game played most often in Philippines?

Here in the States, there are many women pros from other countries who may think the tournaments for the ladies here are more lucrative than their home country. Some like it so much here that they end up moving because of the abundance of opportunities available for lady pros.

Of course, the WPBA [women's governing body of professional pool in U.S.] may have something to do with that, as it has made great strides for the lady players.

Many of the top lady pros in the U.S. have a snooker background, i.e., Karen Corr, Julie Kelly, Allison Fisher, and Kelly Fisher, though there are a few exceptions.

I will be anxious to see how Rubilen Amit makes out in her upcoming tournament. She may be the first of many more to come, i.e., the "Filipina Invasion." :)

JAM
 
JAM said:
Just curious, but have the lady players in the Philippines had the same competitive opportunities as the men players, as far as availability and payouts? And is the game of 15-ball rotation still the game played most often in Philippines?

Hi Jam. Pool is not really very popular among the ladies here and though some do play the game, it's more for fun and just a pastime. I'm not from Manila and I live in the province and ladies tournament is very rare. I also think its also true Manila coz I hardly read news about it. But I've read a few news about Rubilen playing in mens tournament. I've seen her play and she's good but I honestly could not rate her with the likes of Karen Corr, Fisher. etc. Maybe a couple of years playing in the US and her true potential will come out.

15-ball rotation is still popular here especially among the youth coz the game last longer. You see, most billiards halls charge the players per game bases and due to our economic difficulties we always try to make the most out of our money. Funny but true.
 
The word "Dominance" is debatable on this forum, however
the word "Excellence" would probably fit more as an adjective IMO.
It doesn't in any way mean though that other nations are not
excellent (i.e. USA, Taiwan etc.). However, many on this
forum would agree that whenever a Filipino compete on
tournaments most of the time it rises to the top, im not saying
being always on the first place or being the champion, but
will have a significant place in terms of ranking on the tournament.
Now im not even mentioning the money games.

So why the "Excellence" or why the "Dominance" if im going
to borrow JAM's description?

This is just my .0000000002 cent worth of opinion.

1) Size and Economics.
As mention already by others size has nothing to
do with pool, unlike other disciplines like basketball,
volleyball etc., in terms of becoming on top of others.
So is economics, playing this game is not that expensive
compare to say archery, equestrian, golf etc.

2) Adaptability.
Filipino's assimilation of different culture or adapting
to other cultures is phenomenal to say the least. As our
historian would have say "333 years in the convent (under Spain)
and 50 years on Hollywood (under American)". As one foreign
writer in the early 1900's(?) commented on what he sees on
Filipinos and quoted by one historian here (i.e. Zaide),
"Filipinos are the most cosmopolitan people in the world".
Our OFWs (Overseas Foreign Worker) would attest to this fact.
In fact one American recruiter for Nurses, was interviewed,
and asked what's the trait that they find different on
Filipino Nurses. Without batting an eyelash, he says
the Filipinos have shorter time adapting the environment and
culture. Whereas other nationalities would take a longer
time to adapt, Filipinos in just short a time right away
adapt to the environment and culture.Translate that into
playing pool, we are accustomed on 15 ball, but when
coming to the US they play 9-ball, ok find we'll 9-ball,
8-ball ? ok we'll play 8-ball, 1-pocket? ok we'll play
1-pocket, bank pool? ok we'll play bank pool etc. Fast cloth,
slow cloth, pristine Equipment, Aramith balls etc. ? We'll
we're so accustomed playing crappy equipment so that
would be a dream playing those. I still could remember during
my childhood days, when we have pool tables lining on the street
with no hoods/roofs, there are holes on the table cloth that
we have to just tape it with electrical tape, cues are very warped
that getting a straight one would be a very big bonus, hey
we never complain just play along..he.he.he :)

3) Creativity in Adversity.
In many countries especially the wealthy one, you see buses,
trains, personal cars (expensive or not) as a means of
transportation of the masses. When you go here, its not the buses
or any mode of transportation that are ubiquitous, its the Jeepney.
Which by the way borrowed from the American's version's "Jeep" which
is an automible brand there. I've been to many islands and places
here in the Phils and from place to place i see different versions of
Jeepnies from these places, when you go to Manila its different, when
you go to Cebu its different, when you go to Bacolod or Ililo its
different etc. In fact i heard that 2 of the designers of the moon
rover of the 1969 Apollo were Filipinos and they borrowed the idea
from our famed Jeepney here.Translate this one to pool, we dont have
pool video lessons, instructors, organized schools for players,
professional associations (we have association for olympics though).
Ok then we will learn it by ourselves, first we learn the basic draw,
english, follow through etc. not on the above mention avenues but on
sub-par equipment tables, gambling ridden poolhalls (not to mention those
who skip classes) etc. The good players teach us, yes!, but so is
the bad players (remember Efren's comment?). So when they come to
the US, hey look at the stroke of those guys, they aren't following
by the book or the norms, the play pattern hey that's unconventional you don't
have pool playing mind pattern that would be effective. But when
the smoke clears they're hoarding your trophies and your moneys.
Then you guys would think, they are not doing it by the book
(as Taiwanese or American does) but it is as effective and at times more
effective than has been thought by the book.Hhhmmm that's something,
for me, that imagative creativity is the result of adversity that we experience here.
Look at the kick shots or the ambidextrous playing capability of the Filipinos.
The 1st one IMO is that jump ball are always regarded (though there are
exceptions) as foul, so instead of using the jumping cues which would
mean additional expenses why not use the rail. The second one (on ambidextrous)
is why so many filipino pool players play their left hand as almost as
good as their right hand IMO is many of us are short people now instead of
using the bridge there are many situations that the other hand would
prove better. Or if you have become so good and other players would be
asking weight from you,so instead of playing right handed you would play
left-handed.

This is just my own opinion and observation folks.

Now that was long :D
 
CebuanoNiNoy said:
The word "Dominance" is debatable on this forum, however
the word "Excellence" would probably fit more as an adjective IMO.
It doesn't in any way mean though that other nations are not
excellent (i.e. USA, Taiwan etc.). However, many on this
forum would agree that whenever a Filipino compete on
tournaments most of the time it rises to the top, im not saying
being always on the first place or being the champion, but
will have a significant place in terms of ranking on the tournament.
Now im not even mentioning the money games.

So why the "Excellence" or why the "Dominance" if im going
to borrow JAM's description?

This is just my .0000000002 cent worth of opinion.

This is just my own opinion and observation folks.

Now that was long :D


EXACTLEY

Many players played excellent pool this past year, Reyes, Manalo, Chau, Immonen, Hohmann, Putnam, Archer, Owen, Parica, Wu.......all the winners. And most at some time during the year either won or lost to one or more of the others.

GREAT post CebuanoNiNoy (damn, your names long too!)

Terry
 
CebuanoNiNoy said:
The second one (on ambidextrous)
is why so many filipino pool players play their left hand as almost as
good as their right hand...
Great post CebuanoNiNoy! I enjoyed it very much.

Just to add on your comment an ambidexterity, this is also why you see so many of the Filipino players (especially Busta and Alex) play shots behind the back. It's not to make themselves look cool (which they do when they do it :)), but just another creative method they've used in the past to make themselves more comfortable for those hard-to-reach shots.
 
CebuanoNiNoy said:
So why the "Excellence" ..?

This is just my .0000000002 cent worth of opinion.

1) Size and Economics.

2) Adaptability.
Filipino's assimilation of different culture or adapting
to other cultures is phenomenal to say the least. As our
historian would have say "333 years in the convent (under Spain)
and 50 years on Hollywood (under American)".
:)

3) Creativity in Adversity.

Wow. Great post. One of if not the best posts I've read on why the Filipino players have such a high degree of excellence in pool.

Fred
 
alstl said:
I agree, most countries have certain sports that people gravitate to at a young age. For example in Kenya it is distance running, in Latin America it's baseball and soccer, in the Philippines evidently pool is one of the sports they start playing at a young age. Does anybody know if most of the good players come from Luzon?


I played a little pool in the Philippines years ago, but the most impressive thing I did was go to a cock fight. It is a major league sport there, they have arenas build specifically for that purpose, kind of a poor man's version of horse racing.

BTW, my wife is Filipina and she is very poor at pool. But there is good news, she and I have good seats for the Neil Diamond concert tonight in St Louis.:)



not all good ones are from the north. Bustie and Orcolloare form the south...
 
jsp said:
Thanks for the scoop Fred. My parents are both from the Philippines but met and married in Chicago. My mom is from Batangas and my dad from Bulacan. Unfortunately and sadly, like most Filipino-Americans, they brought my brothers and me up speaking only English, and thus our Tagalog comprehension is pathetic. However, I try to keep the culture in tact with the most important thing...FOOD! I love all the hardcore cooking like dinuguan, kare kare, and sinigang, but I can't stomach balut. I guess i'm not that hardcore. :D

BTW, my wife is Ilocana...well, at least her parents are. But like me, she was born in the states as well (Boston).




all i have to say is HA HA HA HAHA:D
 
Popularity of the game:

Taking just the decade of the 70s. I believe there were at least 5 or 6 people in the US that would have played 9 ball as well as Buddy Hall. No, they didn’t show up because they never had an interest in pool. Too many other sports paid much more $$$ so they dedicated themselves to those sports and had a fulfilling career.

So many kids today are the same way. Money? In pool? I don’t think so. So, they are out kicking soccer balls, footballs, dribbling basketballs and hitting baseballs. Never to be exposed to our game.

Pool is huge in the Philippines. All kids are exposed to it. All kids try it. Peer pressure forces kids to stay with it because the game is loved so dearly. Not a lot of pro football, soccer, basketball, baseball teams there.

Expose virtually 100% of the US kids to pool and avoid all the other distractions and we would probably dominate the game, again.
 
If you think the first generation of Filipino invaders ( Reyes, Parica, Luat, Andam and Bustamante ) were bad; second generation ( Manalo, Pagulayan, Orcollo and Alcano) are pretty bad too; the third generation is going to shock you.
They have young guns there now Santos can't beat.
 
hemicudas said:
Popularity of the game:

....

Expose virtually 100% of the US kids to pool and avoid all the other distractions and we would probably dominate the game, again.

Right on the money hemi. Of course you could substitute any country in your statement and it would remain true (all but the "again" part). This is the exact same reason why Saskatchewan produces so many professional hockey players.

Dave
 
Back
Top