Filipino Dominance in Pool

ShootingArts said:
First you have a society where people are desperately seeking to improve their lives, seeking any way out. Then you have at least one person who achieves that dream in any sport. If they have great success, everyone in their small nation looks up to them. Then you have legions of youngsters trying to use the same path to success and every one of them knowing it is possible because their hero did it.

Boxers, jockeys, pool players, many sports have a rash of players or athletes from one country or region of the world that excel. I think this is the reason why. Had the same people devoted the same effort in another area they would have excelled there.

The reason we see fewer and fewer great international athletes from the US on a comparative basis, is simply that we aren't nearly as hungry figuratively or literally as we once were. Hard to dedicate the hours and years of effort required to be the best with all of the distractions we have.

Hu
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I couldn't agree more with your post ShootingArts. Johnnyt
 
sjm said:
Let's say I concede the point that the Fillipinos have the best track record of late. That's not the topic of the thread, which tries to get at what makes these highly successful Asian players so dominant.

So, I ask, what's your view on my comments comparing Asian pool players with those of the rest of the world?
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OK, here's my opinion... one observation i have why Asians do well in pool (and other sports like bowling and badminton), except for the gambling and economic factor, is because this kinds of sports don't need size to excel.... not like basketball where you need to be tall to recognized. the only asian player i know who excel in this sport is Yao Ming who is 9ft tall.. (ok, im exaggerating):D... they'd rather play something that they know they have a chance to excel than play a very popular sport which has a little succes rate. that's just my own opinion..:eek: :o
 
the_eradicator said:
OK, here's my opinion... one observation i have why Asians do well in pool (and other sports like bowling and badminton), except for the gambling and economic factor, is because this kinds of sports don't need size to excel.... not like basketball where you need to be tall to recognized. the only asian player i know who excel in this sport is Yao Ming who is 9ft tall.. (ok, im exaggerating):D... they'd rather play something that they know they have a chance to excel than play a very popular sport which has a little succes rate. that's just my own opinion..:eek: :o
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Now that's extremely interesting. I never would have thought of that, but I'm sure you're right. Lack of height is surely a contributing factor to why so many Asians gravitate towards pool. Thanks for a great insight.
 
Cornerman said:
I've posted this previously on other boards, but without Alex in mind. I don't know anything about Alex, his up bringing, or his cultural background. Because he still has a Pilipino accent, I can only assume that he has more Filipino culture inherent compared to, say, me.

That being said:

The Philippines has been a poor 3rd world country for a while. Gambling is as part of the culture as eating adobo. That is to say that if anyone had a hint of skills that could make money, a Filipino will take to it as if his life were dependent on it. That's because, in essence, the gambling mentality for much of the PHilippines is (was?) about being able to live.

American pool was introduced to the Philippines long before almost any other third world country. That's the biggest reason why we've seen more great Filipino players compared to other third world countries. As we have seen, other countries in the Southeast have been generating world champions in the past decade.

As a money and living opportunity, the Filipinos have taken to pool gambling full bore and have never looked back. Those that could not sustain a living have gone to other things like Mah Jong, cock fighting, etc. (that's just a joke, of course). That is to say, of course there are less-than-world-class Filipino players (who all have played 15-ball rotation on crappy equipment). The cream rises to the top, and we as pool fans get to enjoy the cream.

I honestly believe that if the Philippines were part of the UK from the early 1900's instead of part of the USA, then the World's Greatest Snooker Player would have been a Filipino with the name "Reyes."

So, gambling and the pursuit of a life via gambling is different than in the US. We in the US as a whole are not a gambling nation. Gambling isn't legal in most states. In the Philippines, gambling at anything is the norm. The Philippines is one of the best cases that excellence can be greatly affected by socio-economics rather than physical attributes alone.

Fred
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You really nailed it with this post!
 
sjm said:
Now that's extremely interesting. I never would have thought of that, but I'm sure you're right. Lack of height is surely a contributing factor to why so many Asians gravitate towards pool. Thanks for a great insight.
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Which is why poker is enjoying a huge popularity. No physical traits are required for one to excel, as the strategies are more akin to, as an example, chess.

Pool excellence requires strategic thinking, but proper mechanical skills are key, short or tall.

Pool has become more global in recent times for American players. I have not read about very many international opportunities for players in the older pool periodicals, but in today's pool world, it is becoming the norm for an American player to travel to other countries for competitive events.

JAM
 
Cornerman said:
I've posted this previously on other boards, but without Alex in mind. I don't know anything about Alex, his up bringing, or his cultural background. Because he still has a Pilipino accent, I can only assume that he has more Filipino culture inherent compared to, say, me.

That being said:

The Philippines has been a poor 3rd world country for a while. Gambling is as part of the culture as eating adobo. That is to say that if anyone had a hint of skills that could make money, a Filipino will take to it as if his life were dependent on it. That's because, in essence, the gambling mentality for much of the PHilippines is (was?) about being able to live.

American pool was introduced to the Philippines long before almost any other third world country. That's the biggest reason why we've seen more great Filipino players compared to other third world countries. As we have seen, other countries in the Southeast have been generating world champions in the past decade.

As a money and living opportunity, the Filipinos have taken to pool gambling full bore and have never looked back. Those that could not sustain a living have gone to other things like Mah Jong, cock fighting, etc. (that's just a joke, of course). That is to say, of course there are less-than-world-class Filipino players (who all have played 15-ball rotation on crappy equipment). The cream rises to the top, and we as pool fans get to enjoy the cream.

I honestly believe that if the Philippines were part of the UK from the early 1900's instead of part of the USA, then the World's Greatest Snooker Player would have been a Filipino with the name "Reyes."

So, gambling and the pursuit of a life via gambling is different than in the US. We in the US as a whole are not a gambling nation. Gambling isn't legal in most states. In the Philippines, gambling at anything is the norm. The Philippines is one of the best cases that excellence can be greatly affected by socio-economics rather than physical attributes alone.

Fred
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I agree, most countries have certain sports that people gravitate to at a young age. For example in Kenya it is distance running, in Latin America it's baseball and soccer, in the Philippines evidently pool is one of the sports they start playing at a young age. Does anybody know if most of the good players come from Luzon?


I played a little pool in the Philippines years ago, but the most impressive thing I did was go to a cock fight. It is a major league sport there, they have arenas build specifically for that purpose, kind of a poor man's version of horse racing.

BTW, my wife is Filipina and she is very poor at pool. But there is good news, she and I have good seats for the Neil Diamond concert tonight in St Louis.:)
 
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Well what the hell.:eek: Until I read through this post I didn't realize just how hopeless it is for americans (US and Canada), the euros and a few others.:( Why damn, we all ought to just give up the game.:rolleyes: What... about twenty five or so players from four or five asian countries are just absolutely dominating all play in the world. :rolleyes: Ok....somebody tell the HOFers, somebody tell Mikka, Thorston, Neils, Basavich, Duell, Strickland, Archer, Hillbilly, Rocket, Gabe, Robles, Putnam, McCready, Soquet, etc. etc.;)

Terry<Think I made my point. :D :cool:
 
jsp said:
Question, were you born in PI?
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Yes. Born in Davao City because that's the hospital my parents trusted. My parents are Ilocano, but I and my sisters only spoke English and Cebuano. So, when we moved to the States, I only spoke English and lost much of my culture with the loss of the language.

Fred <~~~ that's why
 
sjm said:
4) Asia has better developmental programs than the rest of the world for junior players.
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This one is a huge reason for Taiwan, and yet another sad commentary on U.S. pool.

Fred
 
Tbeaux said:
Well what the hell.:eek: Until I read through this post I didn't realize just how hopeless it is for americans (US and Canada), the euros and a few others.:( Why damn, we all ought to just give up the game.:rolleyes: What... about twenty five or so players from four or five asian countries are just absolutely dominating all play in the world. :rolleyes: Ok....somebody tell the HOFers, somebody tell Mikka, Thorston, Neils, Basavich, Duell, Strickland, Archer, Hillbilly, Rocket, Gabe, Robles, Putnam, McCready, Soquet, etc. etc.;)

Terry<Think I made my point. :D :cool:
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I have no idea what your point is.

Fred
 
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Gambling has a lot to do with it.
Efren started getting staked at 12 years old.
Efren jokingly told us one time a story where his backer down there showed him his pistol. He told Efren, you miss again, I'm gonna bury you and shoot you with this. Efren said he never missed after that.:D
Funny story about Tang Hoa telling Efren he wante to visit the Philippines one time. Efren told Tang, I have 32 guys waiting for you.:D
Yes. Born in Davao City because that's the hospital my parents trusted. My parents are Ilocano, but I and my sisters only spoke English and Cebuano. So, when we moved to the States, I only spoke English and lost much of my culture with the loss of the language.



Sorry to read you lost the Cebuano/Visaya dialect Fred.
I still speak Ilonggo, Visaya/Cebuano and Tagalog but I came here before I turned 21. My young nieces and nephews are maintaining their undestanding of Tagalog by watching TFC tv.
 
Great responses to this thread, and many were very enlightening to me! :)

A parallel to pool's popularity with children who grow up in Asian or Pacific Islander countries would be baseball in the States. Children in America are turned on to baseball and/or softball at a very young age.

As such, Americans dominate, in most instances, the sport of baseball, most likely because of the American TV exposure. Many young'ns grow up watching baseball greats like Cal Ripken, Jr., as an example. They want to play baseball because of it.

Ice skating elevated to new high after the Kerrigan-Harding scandal. People were hungry to learn more about the players, and in the process, ice skating enjoyed new heights in popularity nationally and internationally.

Pool as a "sport" in the United States may grow if given the right platform. To date, though, NFL, NBA, MLB, PGA, and tennis seem to dominate ESPN and other sports channels on American TV, and as such, pool has had one tire in the sand.

There is a new era up ahead with the trend of higher payouts. Hopefully, it will provide players of all nationalities the drive to push forward, and in the process, the popularity of pool, at least in American culture, may grow because of it.

JAM
 
JAM said:
Great responses to this thread, and many were very enlightening to me! :)

A parallel to pool's popularity with children who grow up in Asian or Pacific Islander countries would be baseball in the States. Children in America are turned on to baseball and/or softball at a very young age.

As such, Americans dominate, in most instances, the sport of baseball, most likely because of the American TV exposure. Many young'ns grow up watching baseball greats like Cal Ripken, Jr., as an example. They want to play baseball because of it.

Ice skating elevated to new high after the Kerrigan-Harding scandal. People were hungry to learn more about the players, and in the process, ice skating enjoyed new heights in popularity nationally and internationally.

Pool as a "sport" in the United States may grow if given the right platform. To date, though, NFL, NBA, MLB, PGA, and tennis seem to dominate ESPN and other sports channels on American TV, and as such, pool has had one tire in the sand.

There is a new era up ahead with the trend of higher payouts. Hopefully, it will provide players of all nationalities the drive to push forward, and in the process, the popularity of pool, at least in American culture, may grow because of it.

JAM
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Who was that BD writer who had a short commentary on Prime Ticket ( before Fox Sports took over ) during the PBT days who compared the Filipino players to baseball shortstops coming from Dominican Republic?
Only, he said, these pool players aren't shortstops. Back then, Efren won like 33% or more of the tournaments. Luat won the World 9. Busta won the Bike Open and Andam won the Dallas Open.
 
Personally I think the fillipinos are great...however I think the greatest cueists in the world are all british (English, Scotish, Welsh and Irish) its just a shame they all played snooker....but then again thats where the money was (And still is to a degree) with the world champion earning $500,000 for his trouble. Why would Hendry or O'Sullivan want to play anything else????

they have earnt more money than any of the pool players...easy. Although now with the IPT and the continued slow decline of snooker hopefully more of them will come across.

Just think a snooker pro at the end of his career (Steve Davis) started playing in 3 nine ball events per year and was competing with the VERY best...even knocking out 3 former world champions (Including Efren) in his first world championship...If Davis can do that what could a Hendry, O'Sullivan or any other top snooker player in his prime do if they learned the game properly????

Answer = WIN WIN WIN

Yes the Fillipinos are great but the best???????
 
Cornerman said:
I have no idea what your point is.

Fred
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Point is.. "Do the posters on this thread who believe that a couple of dozen asian players are ALL DOMINANT in billiards THINK that the players I named and many others should just throw in the towel?":confused:

Another question- Should other countries young players drop out of school and follow the path of many Philippino players or should we buy a pool table for every school and make PE teachers BCA certified instructors to keep up with the Tiawanese? From some of the posts this seems to be the rest of the worlds only hope to be competitive.:rolleyes:

Terry< just like to know so I can either toss my cue or expect higher school taxes.
 
Another factor in their success has got to be the very high general interest in the game. Here, the first thousand people in the street couldn't tell you who Johnny Archer or Earl is.

But last year, when I was hanging out with my toddler son in Central Park, I had a chat with a Filipina who was with her daughter. When I realized where she was from, I mentioned that Bustamante had kidded around with my son at a recent tourney in the city and that he'd met Parica as well. It was pretty telling that her eyes lit right up when I mentioned those names ... she said, Parica, can he STILL PLAY?
 
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