Filler and TRex. Tue -Wed at Roys

Cornerman

Cue Author...Sometimes
Gold Member
Silver Member
As a DCC veteran you know how hard it is to win any event there. With the huge fields, short matches and loads of good players, you need to play great and get lucky a time or two. Taking all that into consideration, by the time the fields get whittled down to ten or fifteen players, they are all champions. Efren is the only player who ever dominated any division at DCC and of course that was in One Pocket. I don't think we'll see the likes of that ever again, but I have no doubt that Filler will be one of the favorites from here on in.

Take a look back at this match on Youtube and you will see what I saw - Filler casually firing in balls from all over the table, making bank shots like they were gimmes, and most of all how creative he was in shooting balls out of the pack. The last player I've seen who was this creative with his shotmaking was - who else but Efren. Josh never missed an opportunity to shoot at his hole, even when he faced losing the game if the shot went a little astray. He not only made or placed balls by his hole time and time again, but he ducked the cue ball, using superior cue ball control at the same time. He actually out-offense'd the best offensive player in the game.

That's the match that I watched.
That’s what I saw, too. I thought Tony played outstanding One pocket ! But Filler could fire balls in from anywhere! All this talk about home table or not hitting a ball... Tony played amazing One Pocket, the same way he is know for playing. Josh is just a freak. And they both got their share of rolls. Tony admitted the Josh outshot him; Josh admitted that Tony easily outmoved him. It was strength against strength.

I suspect Filler will have a One Pocket and a Bank Title at DCC shortly.
 

one stroke

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
That’s what I saw, too. I thought Tony played outstanding One pocket ! But Filler could fire balls in from anywhere! All this talk about home table or not hitting a ball... Tony played amazing One Pocket, the same way he is know for playing. Josh is just a freak. And they both got their share of rolls. Tony admitted the Josh outshot him; Josh admitted that Tony easily outmoved him. It was strength against strength.

I suspect Filler will have a One Pocket and a Bank Title at DCC shortly.

I agree 100 pct and I'll add master of the table to your list


1
 

wincardona

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Tony is a special talent, make no mistake about it. However, in today's one pocket the player that strikes balls the best has the edge going in because the knowledge of playing the game is too attainable. Today's one pocket is night and day different than in the '70s '80s and even '90s where the best movers had the edge because of the lack of opportunism regarding the competition. Today everyone plays one pocket and because of that the nuances and ability to learn the game are much more attainable than years past. Chohan has a very good ball-striking skill, on a scale from one to ten I would give him a solid eight, possibly a nine, however, there are too many players today that have strong nines and tens. There are many players in the world that hold over Tony in ball striking skill and many of them have never played one pocket. Where would Tony be ranked if every player that struck balls better than him was an active one pocket player? Think bout it. Tony can beat anyone in the world in a tournament match he can also beat any player in the world in a race to say twenty, however, he's certainly not the favorite to do that against the better ball strikers. Take Pagulayan, Orcullo, and now possibly Filler. Like I mentioned Tony is a special talent and is the favorite against any player in the world that has ball pocketing skills comparable to Tony's. That's what makes him a special talent. Filler has proven he can beat Tony in a fairly long race to twenty and the next time they play Filler will most likely play a more confident game because of not only his win against Tony but his new knowledge of the game will be a favorable factor as well.

Now we can go into idleness, vices, and other distractions that shackle people/players, however, it's not going to change the value of the player, it is what it is and must be recognized as such when evaluating a player. I'm sure everyone has shortcomings just not as attainable as Tony's are but still relevant.

Tony is a likable man on and off the table, and it's safe to say that when he plays he is the crowd favorite, and when he wins he's our champion.

Bill Incardona
 

BeiberLvr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
When Ernesto's son Oscar was playing in one of his action matches on that super tight table at Hard Times there were no big packages put together that I saw.

haha, why'd you word it this way? We all know who Oscar is :D
 

Tin Man

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I want to address the comments on the lack of preparation on the part of T-Rex. My thesis: You can't have your cake and eat it too.

What I mean is this. Some players play loose. Their advantage is confidence, a trusting stroke, and aggression.

Other players that aren't as naturally confident make up for it with work ethic and preparation.

Tony is the first category. He is aggressive and confident and loose. So you can't take the strengths of that style and then say "If he had been nervous enough about this match to put in a ton of preparation and work then he would've done better". That's as absurd as saying "If he didn't miss some of those shots he would've won". No. You can't select the highlight reel of shots he made and say he's supposed to make those but also supposed to claw back and not make some of the mistakes he made. You have to take the good with the bad. The good of his style is confidence and aggression, the bad is less work and preparation than many of the other top players put in. If Tony suddenly started preparing hard and approaching these matches like they were super serious to him he might not be able to play loose and aggressive and flow like he does.

As for Filler, I agree with Stu that he is taking SVB's formula and taking it further. SVB became the best because he out worked everyone, and he out actioned every one. Alex was close to him on the action side, and there were some players that were close to him on the work ethic side. But the gamblers didn't work as hard as SVB and the workoholics weren't in constant action like SVB. He did both and it brought him to the top. Well, best I can tell Filler is doing the same thing and trying to put the gas pedal even more to the floor. For that reason I expect him to be equally dominant even in the new age of tougher competition than ever.
 

sjm

Sweating it at Derby City
Silver Member
As for Filler, I agree with Stu that he is taking SVB's formula and taking it further. SVB became the best because he out worked everyone, and he out actioned every one. Alex was close to him on the action side, and there were some players that were close to him on the work ethic side. But the gamblers didn't work as hard as SVB and the workoholics weren't in constant action like SVB. He did both and it brought him to the top. Well, best I can tell Filler is doing the same thing and trying to put the gas pedal even more to the floor. For that reason I expect him to be equally dominant even in the new age of tougher competition than ever.

Very good analysis here. In the nine ball era, five American players come to mind when considering the route to greatness you've described, and they are Mike Sigel, Earl Strickland, Buddy Hall, Nick Varner and Shane Van Boening. Many of the Asian players have taken a similar approach, including Reyes, Pagulayan, Orcullo, and Bustamante.

What these nine legendary players all have in common, other than a fanatical work ethic, is what the great Johnny Ervolino used to call "a lot of time in the frying pan" meaning that they always seemed to find themselves in heated pressure situations in both tournament play and in action matches, and Johnny always contended that there is no better path to learning how to excel in the biggest spots.

Josh Filler is following in their footsteps, but I think he's the first European, possibly excepting Jayson Shaw, who has placed so much emphasis on matching up with the biggest stars over and over.

Europe's five greatest players that came before Filler, namely Souquet, Feijen, Ortmann, Hohmann and Appleton, legends all of them, went about their development very differently. I wonder if some of the top young Europeans, so many of whom are phenomenal cueists, will begin to adopt Filler's approach to reaching the highest possible level of achievement at pool.
 

krelldog

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm not hating on Filler...I love watching him play any game...He's fearless.

With that said : I watched several action matches on that table...Those pockets may be 4.5 but they play like buckets. 4.5 inch pockets are like a valley bar table to a world class player.

To say Filler was dialed in on that table...would be the understatement of the century. He's been playing on that table for probably 6 weeks-10 hours a day.

Tony should of never played him on that table. High level one pocket should always be played on an extremely tight table. Filler's ball pocketing and decisions on when to shoot and what to shoot would of been totally different on a brutally tight table.

The notion that Alex or Dennis would struggle to beat Filler is laughable. These 2 would barbecue Filler in every aspect of the game of one pocket. Another aspect is the patience that Alex and Dennis would employ. These 2 would gladly take the game up the table and wait as long as possible to go on the offense if needed. Filler's knowledge of the game isn't challenged if he's shooting at his pocket 90% of the time.

With all that said...hats of to Jonathan Filler. He's a pleasure to watch. I wasn't a fan after his initial Mosconi appearance....but this kid has a way of growing on you.

Thanks again to Roy's Basement and Big Truck Ray Hanson for giving us pool junkies fresh content through this pandemic.
 

overlord

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Very good analysis here. In the nine ball era, five American players come to mind when considering the route to greatness you've described, and they are Mike Sigel, Earl Strickland, Buddy Hall, Nick Varner and Shane Van Boening. Many of the Asian players have taken a similar approach, including Reyes, Pagulayan, Orcullo, and Bustamante.

What these nine legendary players all have in common, other than a fanatical work ethic, is what the great Johnny Ervolino used to call "a lot of time in the frying pan" meaning that they always seemed to find themselves in heated pressure situations in both tournament play and in action matches, and Johnny always contended that there is no better path to learning how to excel in the biggest spots.

Josh Filler is following in their footsteps, but I think he's the first European, possibly excepting Jayson Shaw, who has placed so much emphasis on matching up with the biggest stars over and over.

Europe's five greatest players that came before Filler, namely Souquet, Feijen, Ortmann, Hohmann and Appleton, legends all of them, went about their development very differently. I wonder if some of the top young Europeans, so many of whom are phenomenal cueists, will begin to adopt Filler's approach to reaching the highest possible level of achievement at pool.

You failed to mention Johnny Archer or Mika.
 

westcoast

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If they can’t get Shane to match up with Filler maybe the next best thing would be Shaw- it would be cool to see the 2 great sharp shooting lefties get after it
 

alstl

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm not hating on Filler...I love watching him play any game...He's fearless.

With that said : I watched several action matches on that table...Those pockets may be 4.5 but they play like buckets. 4.5 inch pockets are like a valley bar table to a world class player.

To say Filler was dialed in on that table...would be the understatement of the century. He's been playing on that table for probably 6 weeks-10 hours a day.

Tony should of never played him on that table. High level one pocket should always be played on an extremely tight table. Filler's ball pocketing and decisions on when to shoot and what to shoot would of been totally different on a brutally tight table.

The notion that Alex or Dennis would struggle to beat Filler is laughable. These 2 would barbecue Filler in every aspect of the game of one pocket. Another aspect is the patience that Alex and Dennis would employ. These 2 would gladly take the game up the table and wait as long as possible to go on the offense if needed. Filler's knowledge of the game isn't challenged if he's shooting at his pocket 90% of the time.

With all that said...hats of to Jonathan Filler. He's a pleasure to watch. I wasn't a fan after his initial Mosconi appearance....but this kid has a way of growing on you.

Thanks again to Roy's Basement and Big Truck Ray Hanson for giving us pool junkies fresh content through this pandemic.


Maybe but Chohan beat Orcollo in a race to 40 and both Filler and Chohan had the same 4.5 inch pockets.
 

sjm

Sweating it at Derby City
Silver Member
You failed to mention Johnny Archer or Mika.

Point well taken. Archer fits the mold of the American greats as described, with gambling a big part of his development and Immonen fits the mold of the European greats mentioned, honing his skills primarily in competition.
 

overlord

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Point well taken. Archer fits the mold of the American greats as described, with gambling a big part of his development and Immonen fits the mold of the European greats mentioned, honing his skills primarily in competition.

Thanks, I've always enjoyed reading your copy.
 

gxman

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Maybe but Chohan beat Orcollo in a race to 40 and both Filler and Chohan had the same 4.5 inch pockets.

That was the first set before Dennis really cranked up his 1p game. The 2nd set Dennis had 10 games on Tony at 24.

We need to see Billy vs Filler. Or Billy vs Chohan.
 

alstl

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
That was the first set before Dennis really cranked up his 1p game. The 2nd set Dennis had 10 games on Tony at 24.

We need to see Billy vs Filler. Or Billy vs Chohan.

I'd like to see Billy vs Filler but Efren took Billy's cash at age 65 last year.
 

sjm

Sweating it at Derby City
Silver Member
I'd like to see Billy vs Filler but Efren took Billy's cash at age 65 last year.

Billy has since won 30K at the Mosconi and about 32K at the 2020 Derby City Classic. I don't suppose he's run out of cash quite yet.
 
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