Filler and TRex. Tue -Wed at Roys

Black-Balled

He Rides the Skies
Silver Member
For the offensive minded viewers it will be “watching paint dry”.., but for the “true purist” of One Pocket enthusiasts, the Elite Pro Players should be playing in 3-7/8” pockets.
IN MHO.

Why?

Takes too much away from the game, IMO.
 

skip100

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
For the offensive minded viewers it will be “watching paint dry”.., but for the “true purist” of One Pocket enthusiasts, the Elite Pro Players should be playing in 3-7/8” pockets.
IN MHO.
What does a non-standard table have to do with "purism"?
 

wincardona

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Bill, hearing this made my night. You may not realize how much of an impact you made on pool players over the years.

I got the pool bug in 1993 when I was 13 years old. We didn't have any top pros in my area and of course the internet wasn't available to me at that time. What did I do to watch top pool players? Well, my pool room had a handful of Accu-Stats tapes of 9 ball matches. I would watch them again and again and again. And while my favorite pool players were Nick, Reyes, Rempe, and Hall, when it came to commentary I gobbled up everything you said. Of course when you were paired with Mr. Matthews it was always a pleasure!

It got to the point I couldn't play pool without hearing your voice in my head. I vividly remember one time I had my first shot at the table during a big set and I heard you saying "Now, it's important that young Demetrius get off to an early lead if he's going to have a real chance to win this set". No joke. And I learned how to build my runs around identifying key transitions and ensuring I'd have a good angle to get through them. Lord only knows how much I learned from you. And while I never achieved the highest levels of pool, this game has been rewarding and fulfilling to me beyond description.

I just want to thank you very much for all you've done for pool and for the players like me who's lives you changed. I don't know if you ever travel to tournaments and today that question is more up in the air than ever, but if I had one pool wish it wouldn't be to win a big tournament, it would be to sweat a match like this in your company. Be well my friend!

Demetrius

Thank you, my friend and you have made my day as well. As you can tell I have a passion for all pool games and one pocket is the game I love the most. Yes, you made my day when you said that you have learned quite a lot listening to my commentary which means more to me than you can imagine. I enjoy playing, watching, and talking about pool, and post like yours validates the reason I do commentary. I love nothing more than when people/players stop me and thank me for teaching and helping them with their game through my commentary it makes me feel relevant and at my age, it's so frigging cool. Thank you and I hope one day you win that tournament you speak of and I also hope I'm in attendance to watch you win. Thank you.

Bill Incardona
 

wincardona

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
SJM.

Stuart, I'm in agreement with you about Filler and not knowing what the future may bring, however, in my gut and I believe in your gut as well we kinda do know what the future has in store for us. Filler IMO is a phenomenal player and at his age, one would have to believe that he will continue to improve and that is frigging scary. I'm a fan, definitely in awe of how he gets down over the ball, his fearlessness, and his confidence as a player willing to take on any player playing any game at the age of 22. I would love to sit next to you in the future as we watch Filler win his first one pocket championship chatting with one another about the brilliance of this 23-year-old player. Stay safe my friend.

Bill Incardona
 

johnnysd

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
For the offensive minded viewers it will be “watching paint dry”.., but for the “true purist” of One Pocket enthusiasts, the Elite Pro Players should be playing in 3-7/8” pockets.
IN MHO.

Why? 4.5" pockets on a diamond are already pretty small but why artificially make the pockets small to eliminate aggressiveness. Not sure I understand how that is a better test. Ultimately pool is about making balls and artificially making the pockets smaller to have less balls go in is counterproductive to that. Should the World Snooker tour make the pockets smaller to prevent O'Sullivan from making more 147s?

I enjoyed the match mostly just watching the firepower of Filler, but I also learned a lot about one pocket and to be honest I hold it in lower esteem than before. It is exceptionally repetitive in my view from a spectator side.

I am also not sure it would change the outcome really. Filler is just so much better at both object ball and cue ball control that he is likely to come out on top anyway.
 
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sjm

Sweating it at Derby City
Silver Member
SJM.

Stuart, I'm in agreement with you about Filler and not knowing what the future may bring, however, in my gut and I believe in your gut as well we kinda do know what the future has in store for us. Filler IMO is a phenomenal player and at his age, one would have to believe that he will continue to improve and that is frigging scary. I'm a fan, definitely in awe of how he gets down over the ball, his fearlessness, and his confidence as a player willing to take on any player playing any game at the age of 22. I would love to sit next to you in the future as we watch Filler win his first one pocket championship chatting with one another about the brilliance of this 23-year-old player. Stay safe my friend.

Bill Incardona

Well, my valued friend, sweating matches with you is something I've always enjoyed, not just because I enjoy your company, but also because we're very compatible old-schoolers when it comes to analyzing the play and comparing today's players to all the old masters we both watched in their primes. Consider yourself invited to sweat matches with me the next time we're together.

I am absolutely in awe of Filler, yet I'm starting to think that you and Jay Helfert, two of the few on this forum that have seen more pro level pool than me, rate him even stronger than I do. I just don't think he's good enough to win the one-pocket event at Derby City quite yet. That said, it seems I have underestimated him more than once.

… now let's get past this Corona crap so we can resume watching the best up close and personal. Be safe and be well, Billy. Hope to see you soon.
 

Ken_4fun

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Why? 4.5" pockets on a diamond are already pretty small but why artificially make the pockets small to eliminate aggressiveness. Not sure I understand how that is a better test. Ultimately pool is about making balls and artificially making the pockets smaller to have less balls go in is counterproductive to that. Should the World Snooker tour make the pockets smaller to prevent O'Sullivan from making more 147s?

I enjoyed the match mostly just watching the firepower of Filler, but I also learned a lot about one pocket and to be honest I hold it in lower esteem than before. It is exceptionally repetitive in my view from a spectator side.

I am also not sure it would change the outcome really. Filler is just so much better at both object ball and cue ball control that he is likely to come out on top anyway.

I am just not a fan of this smaller pockets make pool better. I have heard for years that playing on "tight" pockets will make you a better player. It wasn't until a table in my home town was made sub 4" that I saw what really happened.

It changed the 9ball game where unless there was no chance of missing, i.e. very close, easy shot, the ball was batted away and the game became long drug out games of safeties.

Again, not a fan of buckets, but sub 4" IMO, just silly.

Ken
 

overlord

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I am just not a fan of this smaller pockets make pool better. I have heard for years that playing on "tight" pockets will make you a better player. It wasn't until a table in my home town was made sub 4" that I saw what really happened.

It changed the 9ball game where unless there was no chance of missing, i.e. very close, easy shot, the ball was batted away and the game became long drug out games of safeties.

Again, not a fan of buckets, but sub 4" IMO, just silly.

Ken

In a room where there are a lot of One Pocket players you can bet that that the pockets are under 4 inches. Santa Monica House of Billiards comes to mind.

If you are not a regular, you can't play on the first four tables by the rail. Nine ball is rarely seen.

I thought Killer Filler may have a slight edge against Tony on those 4.5 inch pockets. Keep in mind that Chohan has been playing one hole for as many as 25 years while Filler just started.

Filler is highly intelligent and a super fast learner. Tony was talking about how today's players have access to books and tons of videos to learn all the moves and shots in the game, in his after game interview. He also lamented the pocket size.

Back in the day info had to be learned the hard way.
 

Nostroke

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I am just not a fan of this smaller pockets make pool better. I have heard for years that playing on "tight" pockets will make you a better player. It wasn't until a table in my home town was made sub 4" that I saw what really happened.

It changed the 9ball game where unless there was no chance of missing, i.e. very close, easy shot, the ball was batted away and the game became long drug out games of safeties.

Again, not a fan of buckets, but sub 4" IMO, just silly.

Ken

Or you're shooting with a tentative scared stroke- Too tight pockets are not anything to practice on -especially anyone less than Open speed though the contrary is often stated.
 

Ken_4fun

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
In a room where there are a lot of One Pocket players you can bet that that the pockets are under 4 inches. Santa Monica House of Billiards comes to mind.

If you are not a regular, you can't play on the first four tables by the rail. Nine ball is rarely seen.

I thought Killer Filler may have a slight edge against Tony on those 4.5 inch pockets. Keep in mind that Chohan has been playing one hole for as many as 25 years while Filler just started.

Filler is highly intelligent and a super fast learner. Tony was talking about how today's players have access to books and tons of videos to learn all the moves and shots in the game, in his after game interview. He also lamented the pocket size.

Back in the day info had to be learned the hard way.

So what size pockets are they?

Ken
 

skip100

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Pocket size is a ready-made excuse for the losing player. "I woulda won if only..."

In the real world, though, smaller pockets actually help the better, more precise shooter - the player who usually wins regardless of conditions.
 

overlord

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Pocket size is a ready-made excuse for the losing player. "I woulda won if only..."

In the real world, though, smaller pockets actually help the better, more precise shooter - the player who usually wins regardless of conditions.

Straight pool players hate to play on really tight tables. Rotation players have more confidence and will run more racks on 4.5 pockets.

On super tight tables you don't see the six-packs put together. With super tight pockets it turns into safety battles.

When you have a shooter like Filler the wider pocket which you usually don't see in big one pocket matches favors the shooter.

T. Cho who is doctor of the game commented on the pocket size in his after game interview. If these two play again down in NOLA be assured T. Cho will try to steer him to some super tight table.
 

Nostroke

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Neither player rattled many balls in. Filler just seemed to come up with extraordinary masses, jump masses, combos, kicks etc when it looked like he was done.Tony made some nice combos too and probably read the stack better but Filler just executed more of the "no way" shots when he had to and he didn't take much time on them either-Unbelievable instincts and knowledge for someone so young, playing a game for such a short period. SMH!
 

Scratch85

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Neither player rattled many balls in. Filler just seemed to come up with extraordinary masses, jump masses, combos, kicks etc when it looked like he was done.


No doubt Filler came up with very big shots in very big moments. Neither player rattled many in, but Tony did rattle/leave a couple of shots out, late in the match, right on the lip. These were shots that he intended to make, thus leaving Filler his opening shot to start his strong outs. Filler also had a fortunate roll, 8 ball I think, that kept another strong out alive later in the match.

Tony’s effort was very strong. Especially considering he took the match-up on short notice and, on the road, where Filler has been playing non-stop for a couple of months. Filler looks to be playing his best pool ever, right now.

I will be 59 next month and this is the best 1-pocket match I have ever watched. I hope this is the new 1-pocket at the pro level. Local 1-pocket will probably never change, due to talent, but shoot-out 1-pocket is badass and incredibly entertaining.



Sent from my iPhone using AzBilliards Forums
 

Johnny Rosato

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Straight pool players hate to play on really tight tables. Rotation players have more confidence and will run more racks on 4.5 pockets.

On super tight tables you don't see the six-packs put together. With super tight pockets it turns into safety battles.

When you have a shooter like Filler the wider pocket which you usually don't see in big one pocket matches favors the shooter.

T. Cho who is doctor of the game commented on the pocket size in his after game interview. If these two play again down in NOLA be assured T. Cho will try to steer him to some super tight table.
I bet on Tony to beat Filler. Wow was I shocked. I may be wrong, but the way I was reading Tony's face day 2, I don't think he'll play Filler again even, on any table.
 

benny-the-blade

Much Very Good Gambler
Silver Member
I bet on Tony to beat Filler. Wow was I shocked. I may be wrong, but the way I was reading Tony's face day 2, I don't think he'll play Filler again even, on any table.

Maybe on a tight table at Buffalo’s Billiards? I’m not saying Josh would be an underdog, but he’d be stepping into a strange new world. There’s nothing like New Orleans back in Germany.
 

sjm

Sweating it at Derby City
Silver Member
While Tony's chances to beat Filler to the shot would be a little higher on a silly tight table, I just don't think Tony shoots straight enough to cash in those chances. I also think that Tony's edge in the end game would be reduced, as the end game often requires attempting very difficult shots. I think Tony's best chance is on 4 1/2" pockets.

On another note, I think 4 1/2" pockets are tight enough for one pocket on a Diamond. The table played plenty tough enough in the just-completed match.
 
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overlord

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
While Tony's chances to beat Filler to the shot would be a little higher on a silly tight table, I just don't think Tony shoots straight enough to cash in those chances. I also think that Tony's edge in the end game would be reduced, as the end game often requires attempting very difficult shots. I think Tony's best chance is on 4 1/2" pockets.

On another note, I think 4 /2" pockets are tight enough for one pocket on a Diamond. The table played plenty tough enough in the just-completed match.

I've seen pro players that have come to Santa Monica House of Billiards and played on those super tight tables without really practicing on them and lose. I am talking about guys that have won major one pocket pro tournaments.

When they open the doors after 8 pm that room gets crowded, it gets very humid with the sea air coming in and often what they call the ( marine layer ) fog. In the humid conditions the balls bank differently too.

This condition makes the tables play super tight and it's a movers game. Tighter pockets in my mind favors the guy with the most knowledge that can move. The guy that can move until you sell out and then run a bunch of balls on his own terms.

Under conditions such as I've described if a ball hits a rail it ain't going into the pocket period.

If your opponent never misses under any of these conditions, that is gonna be very annoying and you might have to wire home for money.
 

westcoast

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've seen pro players that have come to Santa Monica House of Billiards and played on those super tight tables without really practicing on them and lose. I am talking about guys that have won major one pocket pro tournaments.

When they open the doors after 8 pm that room gets crowded, it gets very humid with the sea air coming in and often what they call the ( marine layer ) fog. In the humid conditions the balls bank differently too.

This condition makes the tables play super tight and it's a movers game. Tighter pockets in my mind favors the guy with the most knowledge that can move. The guy that can move until you sell out and then run a bunch of balls on his own terms.

Under conditions such as I've described if a ball hits a rail it ain't going into the pocket period.

If your opponent never misses under any of these conditions, that is gonna be very annoying and you might have to wire home for money.

I agree- I’ve played at Santa Monica HOB many times- not a gambler, just practicing or shooting for fun with my friends. Those front 4 have to be some of the most challenging tables in the world. The great shooters do adjust fairly rapidly though- I’ve seen Efren, mika, Stevie Moore, Dennis hatch and kiamco play well on those tables.

However I do think that it gets to a point where pockets can be too tight even for 1 pocket. No real need for sub 4 inch pockets- it shouldn’t favor defensive play too much
 
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