Filler withdrawn from Reyes cup

[jbart65]

They have pulled pro pool from the ashes. No outfit is going to be perfect. Keeps harping about scheduling but why should they cede choice tour stops/dates to a competing tour? If it can be done and them not lose money/viewer shares they probably would consider it but they are a for-profit co. and $ rules.

The more I learn, the more I think it's not a question of right or wrong. Or good or bad.

It's simply a clash of competing interests. The kind we see in the business of sports -and business in general -- all the time.

Which means someone is going to win and someone is going to lose.

Frankly, I don't care who wins so long as pool wins. I want to see a viable, global pro tour.

The WPA has not proven historically it's up to the task.

Predator is doing a lot of good stuff and driving/preserving the women's game. Is there a place for them in the men's game?

Give the calendar, sure.

MR as of now only produces seven major events (eight if the World Cup of Pool comes back). That's just 35-40 days of the year. I imagine more MR events are to come, though, so we will see.

In any case MR, being a profit-driven enterprise as garczar notes, evidently views negotiating with WPA/Predator on dates as inimical to its primary business interest of developing the WNT.

Just like the NBA, NFL, MLB and pro golf before LIV, Matchroom wants to be the hegemon of pro pool. It wants to drive the bus.

It's not entirely feasible, though, at least not right now. The MR tour isn't big enough. Nor does it encompass 8-ball and 10-ball and help keep those games alive and in the public view. There is also zero support for women.

The WPA and related associations, what's more, have a legit argument for compensation given the developmental expenses involved in growing players in some markets such as Europe. They also help keep the game alive at the grassroots.

The pot of money involved in pro pool, however, is still too small to satisfy everyone.

The upshot: These disputes are not close to ending.

 

[MattPoland]

I think it’s an interesting time. Matchroom will clearly and obviously never sanction again. We’ll see how long they can keep the world championship. They haven’t made millionaires of the players yet. Obviously they have a more entertaining presentation of pool. But it’s foolish to ignore the amount of prize money out there on the WPA side across their disciplines. It’s not trivial.

 

[Jaden]

They are aggressive, you have to give them that. However, it's a dog eat dog world and they are not the monster dog. It truly sucks, but WPA hurt them bad in Hanoi. This is their second major they couldn't fill the field. So some stuff sucks on their side.

Five withdrawals hurt them SOOO BADD!!!! LOL

Jaden

 

[Jaden]

The more I learn, the more I think it's not a question of right or wrong. Or good or bad.

It's simply a clash of competing interests. The kind we see in the business of sports -and business in general -- all the time.

Which means someone is going to win and someone is going to lose.

Frankly, I don't care who wins so long as pool wins. I want to see a viable, global pro tour.

The WPA has not proven historically it's up to the task.

Predator is doing a lot of good stuff and driving/preserving the women's game. Is there a place for them in the men's game?

Give the calendar, sure.

MR as of now only produces seven major events (eight if the World Cup of Pool comes back). That's just 35-40 days of the year. I imagine more MR events are to come, though, so we will see.

In any case MR, being a profit-driven enterprise as garczar notes, evidently views negotiating with WPA/Predator on dates as inimical to its primary business interest of developing the WNT.

Just like the NBA, NFL, MLB and pro golf before LIV, Matchroom wants to be the hegemon of pro pool. It wants to drive the bus.

It's not entirely feasible, though, at least not right now. The MR tour isn't big enough. Nor does it encompass 8-ball and 10-ball and help keep those games alive and in the public view. There is also zero support for women.

The WPA and related associations, what's more, have a legit argument for compensation given the developmental expenses involved in growing players in some markets such as Europe. They also help keep the game alive at the grassroots.

The pot of money involved in pro pool, however, is still too small to satisfy everyone.

The upshot: These disputes are not close to ending.

It's not that the WPA has not proven historically they're up to the task, they've PROVEN historically, that they AREN'T up to the task.

Jaden

 

[skogstokig]

I think it’s an interesting time. Matchroom will clearly and obviously never sanction again. We’ll see how long they can keep the world championship. They haven’t made millionaires of the players yet. Obviously they have a more entertaining presentation of pool. But it’s foolish to ignore the amount of prize money out there on the WPA side across their disciplines. It’s not trivial.

true. if it weren't for the bans this would be the best time ever to be a pro player.

i don't think ACBS will budge, so from MR's perspective they need to amp up both in prize money and number of events if they want to win this stupid war. find big sponsors, or even better, big time promoters for satellite events

it's not easy, and the model for darts and snooker won't work because the global nature of pool means bigger travel costs than in those sports. i'm not convinced they will pull it off, but i'm hopeful

 

[jbart65]

But it’s foolish to ignore the amount of prize money out there on the WPA side across their disciplines. It’s not trivial.

Not trivial at all.

I was thinking of potential outcomes. MR is not to give up easily or quickly. It will be around awhile.

If were MR's leaders, then, I'd probably be thinking along these lines:

1)The WPA can't maintain extended bans on players. It will lose too much goodwill, engender animosity among players and limit the quality of its fields.

2)It's fine for Predator to drive women's pool, 8-ball and 10-ball. We, that is MR, don't want to do it. We are even fine with Predator having 9-ball events.

But MR will dictate scheduling when it comes to the big events. They take the most time and money to organize of all pro pool events held in a year and generate the most public attention.

Predator/WPA will just have to work around it. And who knows, maybe we (MR) can separate Predator from the WPA and strike some kind of alliance/understanding.

3)MR will run the biggest, best organized events with the largest prize funds. That will keep the players coming back, maintain and attract fans and force all sponsors to get on board the gravy train. From there, bigger and bigger (in MR's dreams).

4)MR will use the Mosconi Cup and newly created Reyes Cup to further draw players into its orbit and keep them there. Aside from winning the $250,000 World Championship, these will be the events players will most want to be part of.

The withdrawal of Filler from the Reyes clearly sends a message. And the message is, play whatever WPA events you like, but you better take part in most of the MR biggies if you want a chance to play in the Mosconi or Reyes.

***
I don't agree or disagree with this approach. Nor does it matter if I did.

Just going to have to live with strife in the pool world for an indefinite period.

 

[jbart65]

It's not that the WPA has not proven historically they're up to the task, they've PROVEN historically, that they AREN'T up to the task.

Jaden

I stand corrected!

 

[biglaketrolling]

Does this all happen in North Korea ?

All the wisdom spreaders and moralists:

Please load up all contracts signed by the pros involved in this story.

Then maybe one is able to commentate.

With a zero knowledge of all behind the curtains action I won’t give a statement.

I‘m absolutely not into the story enough.

The „facts“ published seem mixed with
hearsay.

Maybe Louis Vuitton knows more….
or Cassius Clay.

 

[briclops]

Pro pool probably needs to be based out of Europe or Asia with pros not constantly having to travel to different continents, except for a few select tournaments.

 

[Jaden]

Pro pool probably needs to be based out of Europe or Asia with pros not constantly having to travel to different continents, except for a few select tournaments.

It's a world tour, with tournaments all over the world. It doesn't matter where it's based out of.

Jaden

 

[skogstokig]

Pro pool probably needs to be based out of Europe or Asia with pros not constantly having to travel to different continents, except for a few select tournaments.

such a setup is not really possible in pool with the visas etc. snooker and darts can do it because of their brit dominated scene, but a guy like hosein vafei has been having lots of visa problems on the WST.

congregating tournaments is probably the best solution with regards to that

 

[briclops]

such a setup is not really possible in pool with the visas etc. snooker and darts can do it because of their brit dominated scene, but a guy like hosein vafei has been having lots of visa problems on the WST.

congregating tournaments is probably the best solution with regards to that

The last 64 players in a tournament need to probably earn at least $8,000 USD to make globetrotting worthwhile if they are in it for the long term Pool will need to get to a state where there are as many tournaments as there are in tennis or golf. This will allow the average pro player to earn a decent living.

 

[justnum]

The last thing any country outside the US needs is a bunch of unsanctioned or uninvited players.

In the US there is the "I can do it on my own attitude."

In other countries it is standard to have the "I am a guest in this country specifically for one purpose reason."

It should be interesting to hear about how players do when traveling aboard. The only work sponsored trips should be the restaurant and airport.

Tourism to Asian and European nations will alleviate local funding problems in those areas. Those countries are funding pool players to visit, cash in to get paid. It is an interesting pay structure.

 

[sjm]

Pro pool probably needs to be based out of Europe or Asia with pros not constantly having to travel to different continents, except for a few select tournaments.

Of course, that would improve the game's logistics. That said, I'm against it. Matchroom has stimulated global interest in the game by going to places all over the world that have never had major pool events before. In 2023, it was Poland, Spain and Vietnam. This year it is Colombia, Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates, Maldives, Finland, Morocco and Portugal. To their credit, the WPA brought the World 8-ball to New Zealand.

Pool's global strategy, in my opinion, is paying big dividends and it is stimulating interest in our sport in every corner of the world. The idea of a world tour is, from my vantage point, a good one and watching the growth of the game internationally has been a joy.