Final Shaft taper passes

[dakota]

I have a question for fellow cue makers regarding final taper passes on your shafts.
First of all for equipment I am using a Deluxe Cuesmith with a vertical router and a 6 wing whiteside cutter. I am installing the ferrure onto the shaft at around 13.15mm and I'm trying to make a couple final finishing passes to blend the ferrule and clean up the shaft to around 13mm and then do final sanding.
It seems like when I try to install the ferrule before final passes like this, that I run into some really minor barber pole effects on the shaft. It is really minor and I'm sure it will sand out since most of these shafts will not be finished until they reach 12.75 or 12.85mm.

Anyway, for those who install their ferrules before the final pass, have you run into this before? I don't think I have a dull cutter since all the passes up to this were clean, but maybe it just got dull on me in the last few passes? Maybe I have a completely different problem that I'm just not recognizing? Any thoughts?

 

[JoeyInCali]

If the ferrule is capped and has a new center hole, your center hole is not dead on.
Indicate the shaft before drilling the new center hole after the glue has dried.
It's important to keep the shaft clean under the ferrule so you can indicate it right .

 

[opiesbro]

Ferrule first

If the ferrule is capped and has a new center hole, your center hole is not dead on.
Indicate the shaft before drilling the new center hole after the glue has dried.
It's important to keep the shaft clean under the ferrule so you can indicate it right .

What if you have installed the ferrule first and used the center hole in it the whole time from a cone with light barber poling?

 

[JoeyInCali]

What if you have installed the ferrule first and used the center hole in it the whole time from a cone with light barber poling?

Then your tenon might have moved or your cutter has too much run-out.
IF you are trying to take .005 out and you're having barber poling, that cutter is doing interrupted cuts. It's not hitting the shaft all the time.

Get your cutters re-sharpened and OD'd on the same arbors you use .
Indicate a 1/4 rod in your router. If the run-out is bad, then you got fine pass problems no matter what.

 

[dakota]

makes sense

Joey,

That seems to make sense to me... I am going to try it and I will let you know what I figure out.

Thanks for the input, I always appreciate your advice.... :grin:

If the ferrule is capped and has a new center hole, your center hole is not dead on.
Indicate the shaft before drilling the new center hole after the glue has dried.
It's important to keep the shaft clean under the ferrule so you can indicate it right .

 

[dakota]

Cutter OD

IF you are trying to take .005 out and you're having barber poling, that cutter is doing interrupted cuts. It's not hitting the shaft all the time.

Get your cutters re-sharpened and OD'd on the same arbors you use .
Indicate a 1/4 rod in your router. If the run-out is bad, then you got fine pass problems no matter what.

Joey,

I think this may have been my problem as well. Even once everything is recentered and running true, I was still getting minor barber pole effect, but it only showed up when I did really fine passes. In listening closely you could hear the cutter was not making constant contact. With slightly deeper cuts it seemed to be no problem since all the blades were in contact.

Thanks again for the assistance Joey.

 

[scdiveteam]

Hi,

What is your feed and speed numbers.

I install my ferrules at .910.

Try running time at 6 minutes for 30 inches. Then tweak your lathe speed. Start a 150 rpm.

If you are shooting for.511 stop turning at .517 so you can block sand to smooth rms finish .511.

That should do it.

Rick

 

[whammo57]

I have the same machine as you except I use a 3/4 straight bit. Make sure there is very light pressure on your centers. Try different speeds and feed rates. Above all, make sure your cutter is sharp.

Kim

 

[tsp&b]

Slow it down

Hi,

What is your feed and speed numbers.

I install my ferrules at .910.

Try running time at 6 minutes for 30 inches. Then tweak your lathe speed. Start a 150 rpm.

If you are shooting for.511 stop turning at .517 so you can block sand to smooth rms finish .511.

That should do it.

Rick

What Rick and Kim, both have suggested is VERY GOOD advice! I run at 4 0r 5ft/ min FR and spindle speed of about 120 RPM. Take very shallow cuts. And watch the end pressure, the thinner the shaft the easier it is to get distortion from too much end pressure.

 

[scdiveteam]

What Rick and Kim, both have suggested is VERY GOOD advice! I run at 4 0r 5ft/ min FR and spindle speed of about 120 RPM. Take very shallow cuts. And watch the end pressure, the thinner the shaft the easier it is to get distortion from too much end pressure.

I used to hog the dowel faster down to .950 until one of the greatest CMs on the planet told me that he takes all of his passes at 6 mins. If it were anyone else I would not have listened.

Since doing this my shafts at final dimension are like lasers at high speed between centers. Slow travel puts less shock to the wood. You have to have good shaft wood to start out with of coarse.

I used to think that the shock to the wood stuff was BS. I don't now!!

Rick

 

[QMAKER]

Shaft turning

I don't install my ferrules until the shaft has had it's coats of sanding sealer.
Cut the ferrule down, shaft in a collet of course with a center in the tail stock,
using a SHARP carbide cutter. This will eliminate a lot of problems arising when trying to cut the ferrule while making passes with a router. Also, "barber poling"
has a lot to do with RPM of both the router and the lathe as well as feed. Slow
everything down and you will be surprised at the results.

 

[dakota]

Hi,

What is your feed and speed numbers.

I install my ferrules at .910.

Try running time at 6 minutes for 30 inches. Then tweak your lathe speed. Start a 150 rpm.

If you are shooting for.511 stop turning at .517 so you can block sand to smooth rms finish .511.

That should do it.

Rick

I appreciate everyone's advice. I am really impressed with some of the different ideas. For example, I am really surprized that you put your ferrules on a such a large size... but I'm definately willing to give that a try. Thanks Rick.

In terms of speed, I am running the power feed at a speed where it takes between 6-7 minutes for 30 inchs. I use the PC trim router at normal full speed, but I am considering getting an adjustable speed control for the router in the future. I also try to use really light pressure between centers and everything was cutting smooth up to the final passes. I think like Joey mentioned... my cutter isn't making constant contact on all wings and leaving a little pattern. I wasn't able to detect this on deeper cuts, but when I just try to skim cut really fine passes, I can hear where it sounds like it is making intermitent contact instead of constant contact.

I sincerely appreciate everyone's input. I certainly have some new tips to try out later this weekend.

Thanks,

dakota