Finding a fair game for a short stop US player in the Philippines

cycopath

Call me Banger.
Silver Member
Let me preface this post by saying I am neither going to the Philippines nor am I a short stop speed player.

I’m just curious after watching all these live streams from the PI.

Can a less than Pro level player find a fair game and not feel like he’s being robbed?

There’s just so much raw talent over there, it seems like it would be hard not to run straight into a monster player that looks like he’s 12 years old.


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DecentShot

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Let me preface this post by saying I am neither going to the Philippines or may a short stop speed player.

I’m just curious after watching all these live streams from the PI.

Can a less than Pro level player find a fair game and not feel like he’s being robbed?

There’s just so much raw talent over there, it seems like it would be hard not to run straight into a monster player that looks like he’s 12 years old.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I've been watching a lot of them too. Isn't this what Fargo is for? I would say from watching that if you are a 680+ Fargo, you can match up over there. From what I can see the 4th or 5th tier guys like to match up with 1-3 tier guys...or something to that effect. Are there many teenagers over there that play a true 700 Fargo speed? I would guess no, we wouldn't want the PI to get mythic. Maybe Mr. Helfert can give insight.
 
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Catalin

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
A friend of mine (European) spent 6 months playing the Philippines. He said that if you keep the bet low that doesn't attract the very good players. There will be takers for race to 9 for $5, still good level players. Even if you are mostly losing, it is worth the experience you are getting.

Another aspect in which the local players have the advantage is the equipment (less than ideal). Like tables on which it is very hard to draw. But they are used to it and have good strokes so they can draw the entire length of the table.

Julian
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've been watching a lot of them too. Isn't this what Fargo is for? I would say from watching that if you are a 680+ Fargo, you can match up over there. From what I can see the 4th or 5th tier guys like to match up with 1-3 tier guys...or something to that effect. Are there many teenagers over there that play a true 700 Fargo speed? I would guess no, we wouldn't want the PI to get mythic. Maybe Mr. Helfert can give insight.
I'm bettin' there's a bunch of 700 speed players over there. A 680 speed may not like the size of his bankroll after spending time over there.
 

DecentShot

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm bettin' there's a bunch of 700 speed players over there. A 680 speed may not like the size of his bankroll after spending time over there.

I know what your saying, because its what everyone says. I'm watching guys match up with Efren..are so/so. 650-680. Its not until you get to guys you've heard of that the wow factor kicks in. I always go by what the video tells me, not the road stories.
 

pt109

WO double hemlock
Gold Member
Silver Member
Let me preface this post by saying I am neither going to the Philippines or may a short stop speed player.

I’m just curious after watching all these live streams from the PI.

Can a less than Pro level player find a fair game and not feel like he’s being robbed?

There’s just so much raw talent over there, it seems like it would be hard not to run straight into a monster player that looks like he’s 12 years old.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Home table is a monstrous advantage over there...so you may lose to lesser players.
...and if you can afford it....try to break even in the small action....
...many of those guys are trying to put food on the table...it’s a poor country.

In the bigger rooms there’ll be backers...now you can take a shot at the dough.
...and they will give you weight.
 

deanoc

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
good luck tp any american in the philipines
he is going up hill probably a bunch of 8 to12 year olds can and will beat this shortstop
 

parvus1202

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
In the Philippines, there is always someone who is better than anybody, regardless of who you are. Expect to match you up with someone one notch better than you. They will not match you with your equal. Why? Of course they are for the win. And don't think you can bully kids, they are sometimes more dangerous. Just from experience.
 
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ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Gold Member
Silver Member
skill levels and hunger

Somebody playing for fun will always be at a disadvantage to somebody playing for food. No matter how young a kid looks if they are throwing him against a furriner he isn't that green. I understand that the rail betting is big over there.

Hu
 

maha

from way back when
Silver Member
if you cant match up well in any poolroom and think you have to play even all the time, expect to never win and be the sucker.
 

mchnhed

I Came, I Shot, I Choked
Silver Member
Somebody playing for fun will always be at a disadvantage to somebody playing for food. No matter how young a kid looks if they are throwing him against a furriner he isn't that green. I understand that the rail betting is big over there.

Hu

I give them the money ahead of time and then I play for fun.
Freaks them out every time, and I get respect from the Pinoys.
 

ShortBusRuss

Short Bus Russ - C Player
Silver Member
Just for the sake of complete information... When I was in Iraq for two years, I would get a 2 week vacation every six months, and while travelling back to the U.S., I would always have to stay a night in Kuwait for visa purposes. I had been told that there are plenty of Filipinos in Kuwait, and they play pool.

The first time I was in Kuwait, I jumped in a cab, and told the driver, "Take me someplace where the Filipinos play pool." He took me to a little mall in Saliyah where there were two tables set up in the basement, with "B" players playing on table 1, and "A" players on table 2. Not "our" definition of those two skill levels, but the "A" players were amongst the best in Kuwait, and the "B" players were a tier below them. And nobody gets on either one of these tables unless they are gambling.

I got matched up in a race to 3, Filipino Rotation, with one of the "B" players, for about $40.00. For some reason, even though we had extremely shiite tables in Iraq, and there was no one good to play, I just happened to be in dead stroke when they matched me up on the second table. The entire race to three took maybe 7-8 innings or so. I think I ran one rack straight through to 61. And when I played safe, my opponent was generally frozen to a ball with a minimum two-rail kick. All whilst people around me are explaining the rules when my opponent missed a kick, scratched, etc.

Dude did NOT look happy when he paid off, and no one else stepped up to play. Better than that? The next trip through Kuwait, I got ZERO action, from either table. Now, keep in mind, in general an American is gonna be seen as an easy mark for those Filipinos, so generally, the ongoing match would be finished, and an American would be asked if they want to gamble. That didn't happen.

Even better than THAT? ABout 5-6 years later, I am on a contract in Afghanistan, and I am talking to the Filipino bus driver on post, and tell him I play pool. He said that he did too, and he used to work in Kuwait. He then told me about a story of some chubby American pool player that came through some years back and just crushed cookies, lol. I asked for some clarification on the time frame, and I will let you guess the rest. All over a race to 3, lol...

So, not tooting my own horn, but to illustrate where one would need to be... I am, on paper, a 583 Fargorate. The last time I played a tournament or league that was legitimately Fargorated (not Derby, as they don't report the full match score..) was likely around 4 years ago, before I came to Germany. That being said, I track the players I went to BCA Nationals with (I think we came in somewhere around 25th-32nd place in the Open division, out of 465 teams..), plus players I regularly beat in Colorado and Wyoming. A lot of those players are in the 625-650 range.

Before I left Colorado, I had a short period where I worked out and lost a bunch of weight, and I went on a tear where for a few months, I placed top 4 in every large regional event I played in. It was all bar box, but I surprised a few shortstop level players in the few 9 foot events that we had, coming a LOT closer (hill-hill loss in a race to 15 against a player currently rated 693) than Fargorate predicts. I asked Mike Page about this, and I still think it might play a part in my Fargorate, but as evidenced here - https://ctsondemand.com/PlayerSearch.aspx?s=Chewning , it seems a lackluster performance by my son in the junior event was attached to my name, somehow? Mike says it was not applied to my rating, but I am somewhere around 50 points lower than everyone else on that Open 8 ball team, and me and 1 other guys were kind of the anchors for that team, so?

So... I don't know what my "real" Fargorate is, but I expect it is somewhere slightly north of 600, so.... Especially if I were to lose weight and actually PRACTICE on the table I have at home, and the snooker table in the basement, who knows?

That being said.. I'd say I am good enough to look at someone playing legitimately, and have a good idea whether I have a chance or not. I would also say that I am good enough that if a player with a Fargorate within 50 points of me tried to "lay down", they might get surprised.

I say all this because my wife and I are planning to go to the Phillipines for the first time next year, and I've put some thought into how I would match up against the players outside of tier 1/tier 2 in the Phillipines. I liked the advice above, to keep the bet low, and one won't attract the good players.
 
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HawaiianEye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Just for the sake of complete information... When I was in Iraq for two years, I would get a 2 week vacation every six months, and while travelling back to the U.S., I would always have to stay a night in Kuwait for visa purposes. I had been told that there are plenty of Filipinos in Kuwait, and they play pool.

The first time I was in Kuwait, I jumped in a cab, and told the driver, "Take me someplace where the Filipinos play pool." He took me to a little mall in Saliyah where there were two tables set up in the basement, with "B" players playing on table 1, and "A" players on table 2. Not "our" definition of those two skill levels, but the "A" players were amongst the best in Kuwait, and the "B" players were a tier below them. And nobody gets on either one of these tables unless they are gambling.

I got matched up in a race to 3, Filipino Rotation, with one of the "B" players, for about $40.00. For some reason, even though we had extremely shiite tables in Iraq, and there was no one good to play, I just happened to be in dead stroke when they matched me up on the second table. The entire race to three took maybe 7-8 innings or so. I think I ran one rack straight through to 61. And when I played safe, my opponent was generally frozen to a ball with a minimum two-rail kick. All whilst people around me are explaining the rules when my opponent missed a kick, scratched, etc.

Dude did NOT look happy when he paid off, and no one else stepped up to play. Better than that? The next trip through Kuwait, I got ZERO action, from either table. Now, keep in mind, in general an American is gonna be seen as an easy mark for those Filipinos, so generally, the ongoing match would be finished, and an American would be asked if they want to gamble. That didn't happen.

Even better than THAT? ABout 5-6 years later, I am on a contract in Afghanistan, and I am talking to the Filipino bus driver on post, and tell him I play pool. He said that he did too, and he used to work in Kuwait. He then told me about a story of some chubby American pool player that came through some years back and just crushed cookies, lol. I asked for some clarification on the time frame, and I will let you guess the rest. All over a race to 3, lol...

So, not tooting my own horn, but to illustrate where one would need to be... I am, on paper, a 583 Fargorate. The last time I played a tournament or league that was legitimately Fargorated (not Derby, as they don't report the full match score..) was likely around 4 years ago, before I came to Germany. That being said, I track the players I went to BCA Nationals with (I think we came in somewhere around 25th-32nd place in the Open division, out of 465 teams..), plus players I regularly beat in Colorado and Wyoming. A lot of those players are in the 625-650 range.

Before I left Colorado, I had a short period where I worked out and lost a bunch of weight, and I went on a tear where for a few months, I placed top 4 in every large regional event I played in. It was all bar box, but I surprised a few shortstop level players in the few 9 foot events that we had, coming a LOT closer (hill-hill loss in a race to 15 against a player currently rated 693) than Fargorate predicts. I asked Mike Page about this, and I still think it might play a part in my Fargorate, but as evidenced here - https://ctsondemand.com/PlayerSearch.aspx?s=Chewning , it seems a lackluster performance by my son in the junior event was attached to my name, somehow? Mike says it was not applied to my rating, but I am somewhere around 50 points lower than everyone else on that Open 8 ball team, and me and 1 other guys were kind of the anchors for that team, so?

So... I don't know what my "real" Fargorate is, but I expect it is somewhere slightly north of 600, so.... Especially if I were to lose weight and actually PRACTICE on the table I have at home, and the snooker table in the basement, who knows?

That being said.. I'd say I am good enough to look at someone playing legitimately, and have a good idea whether I have a chance or not. I would also say that I am good enough that if a player with a Fargorate within 50 points of me tried to "lay down", they might get surprised.

I say all this because my wife and I are planning to go to the Phillipines for the first time next year, and I've put some thought into how I would match up against the players outside of tier 1/tier 2 in the Phillipines. I liked the advice above, to keep the bet low, and one won't attract the good players.

Not everybody in the PI is a world beater.

I lived there for three years (79-82) and played almost every day on Clark AB and in the bars downtown in Angeles City. Nobody took my money...Americans or Filipinos.
 

ShortBusRuss

Short Bus Russ - C Player
Silver Member
Not everybody in the PI is a world beater.

I lived there for three years (79-82) and played almost every day on Clark AB and in the bars downtown in Angeles City. Nobody took my money...Americans or Filipinos.

Any idea what your "Fargorate" estimation would have been for that time period?
 

ShortBusRuss

Short Bus Russ - C Player
Silver Member
Edited for clarity

Some people actually like to read stories about pool. There surely aren't that many of them on this forum anymore. And this story was pretty relevant to the subject matter, I'd say. An American of known Fargorate skill, not a professional, playing Filipinos pool, and the results.

Maybe you should try to stop being such a jerk. Or, if you can't help it... Go smoke some weed.
 
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alphadog

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Short Bus I liked your story and believe it was relebant. I know the pi players know about handicapping/giving or getting weight. You still couldnt get a game?
 

ShortBusRuss

Short Bus Russ - C Player
Silver Member
Short Bus I liked your story and believe it was relebant. I know the pi players know about handicapping/giving or getting weight. You still couldnt get a game?

Well..... I wasn't exaggerating about the race to three taking about 8 innings.Beat the guy 3-0, and he didn't ask for a rematch, and another pair jumped on the B table right away... Mebbe they were a little more accustomed to easier games? The Kuwaitis got money for days, and there are prolly a lot of them willing to go drop a hundo and not even notice it, so...

Thanks for the support, as well. Remembering the good times like these makes me want to lose some weight and go try to play a few Eurotour events. I watched last year when the Mosconi Cup hopefuls went and played the Leende Eurotour event, and there are definitely some beatable players there.
 

HawaiianEye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Any idea what your "Fargorate" estimation would have been for that time period?

I have never researched that system to even figure it out, but it would have been better than the average bear.

I was gambling every day and playing runout pool. I was in my mid-20s at the time and had perfect vision.

I am 65 now, blind with cataracts, and play once a week and can still play at an A, or above, level if I put my mind to it.

I had.a 5-pack of 9-ball not too long ago and made the 9 on the break in the 6th game but scratched.

I have always thought I could have “hanged” with just about anybody in my prime. I may have lost, but I never thought anybody could “steamroll” me.
 
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