Fireworks at the US Open
- Thread starter azhousepro
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Ragin1 said:
Entertaining thread, very much in line with today's interaction between movie stars and the paparazzi. You must admit, the very sighting of Earl Strickland at any event is an attraction, and the reason he is invited to major tournaments. His antics and his talent captivate many spectators and is a bonus for promoters looking to make a profit.
It is worthy of mention that he has won the U.S. Open five times in a 16 year period, the first one when he was the same age as Gabe Owen. I am not aware of any pool player in today's world accomplishing such.
He is who he is, like him or not. But there is never a dull moment when Earl is at the table, and it makes for a bloody good reading, much like this thread.
Ragin1 said:
It's not inuendo and allegation if it was witnessed with one's own eyes and heard with one's own ears.
I can only speak for what happened between Earl and Sally and JR and the stories are quite consistent from everyone who saw it.
I wonder if anybody realizes that if Earl "changed" and became a humble little man, who walked to the table all smiles and such, shaking hands, congrat's to the other player, shaking hands and saying good words to the people watching, he would be an even bigger draw? Because everybody would want to be there when he "snaps" as most think he probably would. Why can't people accept Earl for what he is? You can't change a man; it would only make it worse, for everybody.
Thanks,
Jon
Thanks,
Jon
What I don't understand is why everybody hates Earl so much but when he's playing in a room of 40 other players everybody is ganged around his match watching him. Everybody goes on about his rantings but if you ever listen to him he's usually right. Take the jump stick for instance, What kind of JACKASS tournament would allow this peice of crap. Guys like Reyes have 40 years of experience kicking 2 3 and 4 rails to make legal contact and his opponant with virtually no skill at all takes out a $50 peice of s#*t jump cue and now This clown has leveled the playing field with a guy who has 500% more skill. The game is sopposed to be pure skill not tools & tricks. If tournaments were run correctly where skill and ability prevailed over jump sticks guys like Efren & Earl would win practically everything. You should all be greatfull to live at the same time as these two GREATS because the world will probably never see talent this strong again.
Agreed. I love Earl--the poolplayer, not the person because I don't know him personally. I do listen to his rantings and ravings and I would say that he is correcto about 90% of the time. He's the player that everyone loves to hate. That's why he's always got a crowd of people watching because they're waiting for him to breakdown or go off on someone. I love watching him because, like many others, he's got skills.
So it is ok to rant about things during a match as long as you feel you are right even though you are disturbing your opponent and others? Don't tell me he his right, it's subjective when it comes to this type of opinion.
Are all the players who just play quietly without ranting about what is "right" wrong then?
BTW was Earl right when he told Mikala to shut up? Was he right when he ranted about the "food humidity" from a small steam table in a 15000 sq ft room and then quit the tournament? Was he right when he admonished the crowd at the US open for "clapping for a foreigner"? I could go on and on.
Are all the players who just play quietly without ranting about what is "right" wrong then?
BTW was Earl right when he told Mikala to shut up? Was he right when he ranted about the "food humidity" from a small steam table in a 15000 sq ft room and then quit the tournament? Was he right when he admonished the crowd at the US open for "clapping for a foreigner"? I could go on and on.
O
onepocketchump
Guest
EL'nino said:
Let me see if I can help you understand. It is not Earl the great pool player that some people dislike, it is Earl the asshole. I don't know if you have ever had the pleasure of talking with Earl one-on-one for any length of time. I have and it's all Earl talking, going off in all kinds of crazy directions. Not a problem though because everyone is entitled to their views whether they are wrong or right. It is just when Earl begins to inflict his views on others that he becomes a jerk. As in, racist comments to foreign players, snide and condecending comments to most of his opponents, walking out on matches, demanding special considerations and the like.
Earl, the pool player, is an awesome sight to behold when he is performing at peak. No one can take that away from him ever. I have several tapes of Earl and I treasure the pool on them. I dislike Earl's antics now and that is why I won't support him.
As for the jump cue issue. For the record Efren uses a jump cue. Almost all the Filipino players use jump cues. Earl is just a prick when it comes to them because that is one area in particular that he excels at and he can't stand it that an effective cue has been developed to enhance that area of pool. A jump cue however does not instantly make up a 500% difference in skill. I have said this in the past and I am saying it again, if Earl would use a jump cue, given his already awesome ability to jump with a full cue, I think that he would find that he would be that much better and would certainly be able to add shots to his arsenal that he currently is not able to do. It is a FACT that Earl Strickland cannot jump the cueball over a blocking ball that is three inches away with his full cue. I will BET large amounts of money on this. With a jump cue however Earl might very well be the most deadly accurate jumper at any distance.
Surely you can see the hypocrisy when Earl uses finger extensions but rails against the jump cue. Neither the finger extensions nor the jump cue makes the shot - the player holding the cue does. I am not going to turn this into another jump cue debate but I do want to emphasize again that it is innovation which drives the sport. Were there no need for jump cues then they would not be in use. I highly doubt that Earl wants to play with the same equipment that was in use in 1850. Earl is also an avid golfer and I doubt he uses clubs from 1950. I would almost bet that he has a Big Bertha in his bag.
John - pro jump cue, pro - Earl the pool player, anti - Earl the hypocritical bigot. Pool fan.
Tap, tap, tap OPC.
Tap tap what?JoeyInCali said:
OPC called jump cues (innovation which drives the sport). What is he going to say next year when some bozo comes out with a laser guided GPS assisted combination making machine, a breakthrough in billiards? It's a game of skill and the bar is being lowered so every idiot with a pool cue can compete. Keep the bag of tricks and gags with Barnum & Baily and leave top level pool pure the way the greatest game on earth should be.
Well, if you're going to whine about players playing with a jump cue, don't be hyprocritical and use the finger extensions.EL'nino said:
Blame BCA. Is Earl gonna whine about Sledgehammer too?
Wait, his break cue has fiber coat/clad. Hmmm.
O
onepocketchump
Guest
El Nino,
I am going to say that if the laser guided pool cue makes the balls without the player doing the work then it is a gimmick with no value to the game. Frankly I don't care WHAT a player uses to make the cueball move as long as he makes a LEGAL shot according to the RULES. Since the RULES state that no mechanical assistance is allowed then I guess it is still on the shooter to manipulate whatever he is going to use to strike the ball with to achieve the desired result.
Have you EVER seen a jump cue make a shot by itself? Have you ever seen a pool cue make a shot by itself? The FACT is that the jump shot is a skill shot with or without a jump cue. I challenge you to disprove this.
Here is the test that I propose every time this issue comes up. Which shot requires more skill: A three rail kick shot or a jump/three rail kick shot? How about a jump/bank shot? How about jumping over a cluster of balls and making the object ball with only two inches of room on the other side of the cluster? Can you really sit there and say that all these shots are because of the jump cue? These shots are POSSIBLE because of the jump cue but they are only makeable according to the skill level of the player wielding the cue.
Just like the introduction of the leather tip and chalk made a whole world of spin shots POSSIBLE when most were IMPOSSIBLE before those innovations, the mere use of tips and chalk does not give every player the magical ability to spin the ball like Mike Massey.
So before you start in with the standard red herring arguments about laser guided this and thats I suggest that you try putting up a logical argument as to exactly HOW a jump cue in and of itself does anything without player guidance. And please don't forget to tell us what a wonderful innovation the finger extensions are and why it is okay if Earl uses those while denouncing jump cues. I notice that you conveniently sidestepped that part while throwing up a non-argument.
Also, do you not agree that IF Earl were to use a jump cue then would he not be able to do more with it than most players because of his superior skill at jumping with a full cue? I can tell you from personal experience that my friends who are excellent jumpers with a full cue are ungodly with a jump cue. If the goal of pool is to make the balls and run out, then how is having a lot more LEGAL options a bad thing?
John Barton - has taught well over 1000 people to jump and performed over 500,000 jump shots during the last six years. This is the same guy who can't make a hanger jump shot to win a hundred dollar set (so much for the cue doing all the work) And I still can't beat Earl Strickland and he ain't 500% better than me.
I am going to say that if the laser guided pool cue makes the balls without the player doing the work then it is a gimmick with no value to the game. Frankly I don't care WHAT a player uses to make the cueball move as long as he makes a LEGAL shot according to the RULES. Since the RULES state that no mechanical assistance is allowed then I guess it is still on the shooter to manipulate whatever he is going to use to strike the ball with to achieve the desired result.
Have you EVER seen a jump cue make a shot by itself? Have you ever seen a pool cue make a shot by itself? The FACT is that the jump shot is a skill shot with or without a jump cue. I challenge you to disprove this.
Here is the test that I propose every time this issue comes up. Which shot requires more skill: A three rail kick shot or a jump/three rail kick shot? How about a jump/bank shot? How about jumping over a cluster of balls and making the object ball with only two inches of room on the other side of the cluster? Can you really sit there and say that all these shots are because of the jump cue? These shots are POSSIBLE because of the jump cue but they are only makeable according to the skill level of the player wielding the cue.
Just like the introduction of the leather tip and chalk made a whole world of spin shots POSSIBLE when most were IMPOSSIBLE before those innovations, the mere use of tips and chalk does not give every player the magical ability to spin the ball like Mike Massey.
So before you start in with the standard red herring arguments about laser guided this and thats I suggest that you try putting up a logical argument as to exactly HOW a jump cue in and of itself does anything without player guidance. And please don't forget to tell us what a wonderful innovation the finger extensions are and why it is okay if Earl uses those while denouncing jump cues. I notice that you conveniently sidestepped that part while throwing up a non-argument.
Also, do you not agree that IF Earl were to use a jump cue then would he not be able to do more with it than most players because of his superior skill at jumping with a full cue? I can tell you from personal experience that my friends who are excellent jumpers with a full cue are ungodly with a jump cue. If the goal of pool is to make the balls and run out, then how is having a lot more LEGAL options a bad thing?
John Barton - has taught well over 1000 people to jump and performed over 500,000 jump shots during the last six years. This is the same guy who can't make a hanger jump shot to win a hundred dollar set (so much for the cue doing all the work) And I still can't beat Earl Strickland and he ain't 500% better than me.
O
onepocketchump
Guest
EL'nino said:
Well I guess you better kick out the following list of World Champions who use jump cues while spoiling the "purity" of the game. Thorsten Hohman, Alex Pagulayan, Fong Pang Chao, Johnny Archer, Mika Immonen, Ralf Souquet, Oliver Ortmann, Efren Reyes. Thes are prime examples of the "idiots" who are just able to compete because they have a jump cue.
I'll tell you what El Nino', you come to Russelville Arkansas and bring $500 with you. I will play you a race to five in One Pocket and I will use the Bunjee Jumper Jump Cue to play you. I won't make any jump shots during the match. After that I will challenge to a game of horse with the jump cue. If you don't agree after that match that the Bunjee is as effective as a so-called "regular" cue and that jump shots made with it are skill shots then I will come on AZB and RENOUNCE jump cues to the world. You can put your money where your mouth is and PROVE that jump cues are, to use your ill-worded comparison, "circus" gimmicks or you can be DISPROVEN and then perhaps you will have the cojones to come in here and admit you were wrong.
Deal?
John Barton
EL'nino said:
Wasn't there an older version of 9-ball played that had different rules? It was a 2-pushout or 2-foul rule or something like that? I think jump cues just came along with the evolution of the game. In 9-ball there is some luck involved, a player can dog a ball and leave his opponent hooked with no kicking path. It's not like jump cues are some magical devices that automatically let you make the shot with position on the next ball. In todays version of 9-ball where one foul gives your opponent ball in hand, and usually means you are going to lose that game, then I don't see what the big fuss about jump cues is. For pros, I would say their percentages of jumping a ball with a jump cue and running out is about 30%, maybe less.
I don't use a jump cue, never have, and probably won't do it for a long time. Not until my game gets rock-solid at kicking, then I will practice using a jump cue. There is a saying, when in Rome, do as the Romans do. If everyone is using a jump cue to their advantage, then do the same thing and practice until you become better then they are, and BARBECUE them. I have never had a problem with a player jumping a ball in on me and running out. Most of the time they miss the ball anyways and sell out. I see pros do that often too.
Hi Lasttwo, I'm not saying jumpcues get you out of every situation and win you every game, I'm saying where does it end. All that should come to the table is a player and thier cue "that's all". Let the player with the most skill (NOT TOOLS) win.LastTwo said:
Lot of good points made about jumping, and there's some truth to the point made that it part of the natural evolution of the game.
The problem I have with jump cues is largely philosophical. Situational cues during the play has never been a part of the game. If jump cues are to be allowed, why shouldn't somebody be allowed to use any cue on any shot. For some shots, I'd rather have a stiff shaft, for others I'd like to have a short ferrule, for others I'd like to have a very large tip, for others I'd like to have a harder tip, etc. I'm not allowed to use situational cues, however. It's very deeply embedded in the history of the game that I must learn to execute all of my shots with my regular playing cue.
The day I'm allowed to use any cue I like on any shot is the day I'll agree that a jump cue should be permitted. At that point, I'll probably look a lot like a golfer, carry fourteen sticks to cover all possible shots. Until that day arrives, however, count me among those rubbed the wrong way by jump cues.
The problem I have with jump cues is largely philosophical. Situational cues during the play has never been a part of the game. If jump cues are to be allowed, why shouldn't somebody be allowed to use any cue on any shot. For some shots, I'd rather have a stiff shaft, for others I'd like to have a short ferrule, for others I'd like to have a very large tip, for others I'd like to have a harder tip, etc. I'm not allowed to use situational cues, however. It's very deeply embedded in the history of the game that I must learn to execute all of my shots with my regular playing cue.
The day I'm allowed to use any cue I like on any shot is the day I'll agree that a jump cue should be permitted. At that point, I'll probably look a lot like a golfer, carry fourteen sticks to cover all possible shots. Until that day arrives, however, count me among those rubbed the wrong way by jump cues.
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sjm said:
Not until now anyway.....
http://seyberts.com/cues/mcdermott_cues/mcdermott_shafts/index.htm
O
onepocketchump
Guest
Reply to El Nino:
I am using the offer to play you with a jump cue to illustrate the fact that it is a cue that can be used to play pool with, as opposed to a jump rod which is only good for getting the ball to hop. As for your self-admitted lack of one pocket skills, I would venture to say that this is a large part of why you don't understand the need for and use of jump cues by pros and players worldwide. Earl is in the minority on this and so are you.
To SJM: Jump cues would not be neccesary if the rules had not been changed to award ball in hand for not contacting the object ball. Thus dinky safeties or worse, unintentional safeties often result in ball in hand. As for the use of one cue being "deeply embedded" I must disagree. The history of the game reflects that both pool and billiard players have at various times used many cues for different parts of the game. Because most shots needed in pool CAN be executed with one type of relatively standard cue pool has become a game where most players use one cue to play it. This does not mean that this is the optimal way to play the game and it is definitely a fact that different construction methods result in cues that are better for different shots. The fact is that pool has evolved and changed in a lot of different directions with the changes in equipment and rules over the last one hundred years. I can guarantee you that if I were a professional player then I would own a jump cue, a masse' cue, a break cue and a pool cue - each optimized for the shots they are best suited to. This would give me the equipment to allow me to use my skill to have the best chance to win.
No matter what cue I would have in my hand it would still come down to ME and how well I could execute. I would know that at the very least I was not encumbered by my equipment.
John
I am using the offer to play you with a jump cue to illustrate the fact that it is a cue that can be used to play pool with, as opposed to a jump rod which is only good for getting the ball to hop. As for your self-admitted lack of one pocket skills, I would venture to say that this is a large part of why you don't understand the need for and use of jump cues by pros and players worldwide. Earl is in the minority on this and so are you.
To SJM: Jump cues would not be neccesary if the rules had not been changed to award ball in hand for not contacting the object ball. Thus dinky safeties or worse, unintentional safeties often result in ball in hand. As for the use of one cue being "deeply embedded" I must disagree. The history of the game reflects that both pool and billiard players have at various times used many cues for different parts of the game. Because most shots needed in pool CAN be executed with one type of relatively standard cue pool has become a game where most players use one cue to play it. This does not mean that this is the optimal way to play the game and it is definitely a fact that different construction methods result in cues that are better for different shots. The fact is that pool has evolved and changed in a lot of different directions with the changes in equipment and rules over the last one hundred years. I can guarantee you that if I were a professional player then I would own a jump cue, a masse' cue, a break cue and a pool cue - each optimized for the shots they are best suited to. This would give me the equipment to allow me to use my skill to have the best chance to win.
No matter what cue I would have in my hand it would still come down to ME and how well I could execute. I would know that at the very least I was not encumbered by my equipment.
John