First timer seeks advice on trimming tips

[lvlss42190]

Working as a machinist I have a good understanding of how a lathe works, however I do not have the money to spend to just buy a cue lathe.

So I did some research and I jury rigged one that would suffice for simple things like shaft cleaning, tip replacements etc.

I've watched enough videos and read enough how to instruction guides on tip replacement that the entire process if fairly straight forward.
I got my "lathe" assembled and everything runs properly, there's a little bit of run out in the headstock but it's manageable considering I'm not trying to hold .0001" tolerances.

My problem however comes once the new tip is glued on and I'm trying to shave it down to size with the ferrule. I've seen many cue makers use a simple razor knife to do this, so I figured it can't be that hard to free hand it... Boy was I wrong.

I mangled the first blade I used and after about a half hour managed to trim the tip down some, it's playable but it's not very pretty to look at.

I do have a tool rest to use and it didn't seem to help any. The knife wants to jump around and doesn't seem to like the leather very much. But watching so many people do it so effortlessly makes me believe I'm doing something wrong.

Any advice or pointers would be much appreciated.

 

[63Kcode]

Practice and wetting the tip helps!

Larry

 

[JoeyInCali]

You need good RPM to trip leather with utility blade.
At least 800 RPM.
Lennox titanium coated blade are the best utility blade to use .
Your setup is probably too slow.
You can't use an electric drill to do it .

 

[MVPCues]

So many things to consider. Just a few ideas.

1. Were you running the spindle in reverse? Given the hand position most guys implement (better control/feel), you have to run it in reverse.
2. Do you have a centered tail stock with your rigged lathe? If so, make a cupped centering device that a tip will nestle in so when you glue the tip on you can get it centered. If the tip is turning true it makes trimming with a blade a lot easier.
3. Do you have a traditional cross slide & tool post with your rigged lathe? If so, take a few roughing cuts with a cutting bit (the aluminum cutting inserts are popular in these parts) to trim the tip sort of close to the ferrule and then finish with the blade.
4. Always lay the blade flat on the spinning ferrule and slide it into the tip. If you attack the tip directly bad things will happen.
5. Use very good blades.
6. Spin fast. 800+
7. Moisture on some tips helps the cut. Spit works.
8. Elbow support so you can get comfortable might help.

I trimmed the tips flush with a blade for a long time. Now I use the inserts I mentioned except for a few tips that ask for a blade. If the end of the ferrule is OOR or I can't get the TIR down, I switch to the blade for final cut because of its ability to "hug" the end of the ferrule and trim the tip to match the ferrule.

 

[cuejo]

I prefer the black olfa blades for trimming, the snap off type
I like the utility type blade for shaping myself

 

[lvlss42190]

Thanks everyone, I'll definitely give some of these suggestions a try and see how it goes. I think the main issue is that I wasn't running fast enough and I was using a cheap blade. that's just a guess until I get back to it in the morning.

Again thank you for the replies.

 

[whammo57]

I never liked the finish the blade gives. I use a lathe tool to trim the tip to size. 3/8 tool with an insert for aluminum.

I shape the tip with a utility knife blade resting on the lathe tool.

Kim

 

[scdiveteam]

Hi,

Find a deal on cheap tips and then do a ton of practice tips.

I owned a pool hall and did about ten tips a week for ten years and it took me 6 months to feel comfortable with the looks of my final product.

Again try everyone's suggestions but do a ton of tips until you are happy with how they look and play. Customers are very picky about their cues so take it slow until you have high confidence.

JMO,

Rick

 

[cutter]

First timer

All the "tips" have been good. You'll find that different tips
cut differently and you must develop a feel for how you
handle the pealers, crumblers and mealy tips.
I use a aluminium plate to support the blade.
For me, it's all about sharpness of the blade. What ever
one you use.

 

[cuejo]

All the "tips" have been good. You'll find that different tips
cut differently and you must develop a feel for how you
handle the pealers, crumblers and mealy tips.
I use a aluminium plate to support the blade.
For me, it's all about sharpness of the blade. What ever
one you use.

I snap off a section of the olfa after 2 tips usually
Not much worse that trying to trim a Taom or a hard kamui with a less than new blade!

 

[cammel8]

Working as a machinist I have a good understanding of how a lathe works, however I do not have the money to spend to just buy a cue lathe.

So I did some research and I jury rigged one that would suffice for simple things like shaft cleaning, tip replacements etc.

I've watched enough videos and read enough how to instruction guides on tip replacement that the entire process if fairly straight forward.
I got my "lathe" assembled and everything runs properly, there's a little bit of run out in the headstock but it's manageable considering I'm not trying to hold .0001" tolerances.

My problem however comes once the new tip is glued on and I'm trying to shave it down to size with the ferrule. I've seen many cue makers use a simple razor knife to do this, so I figured it can't be that hard to free hand it... Boy was I wrong.

I mangled the first blade I used and after about a half hour managed to trim the tip down some, it's playable but it's not very pretty to look at.

I do have a tool rest to use and it didn't seem to help any. The knife wants to jump around and doesn't seem to like the leather very much. But watching so many people do it so effortlessly makes me believe I'm doing something wrong.

Any advice or pointers would be much appreciated.

Few things I did until I learned how to do it by feel.

First off take a boring bar or larger size allen key and put it in your tool post. What i did was put my cutting bit in one side and the allen key on the other side sticking out about 4 inches in the same direction as the cutting tool. The other option is to use a boring bar as your cutter and allow the end to stick out. Boring bar is way easier but allen key works in a pinch but has to be removed every so often if you plan to use the tool to cut ferules and stuff.

Then what you want to do is glue the tip on centered as possible. Once it is ready to tool. Use your tool to cut it down almost to size. Just eyeball it and make sure you don't cut it to the size of the ferule.

Once you have cut it to almost size flip your tool post so the allen key is parallel with your shaft. Then run it up to about a 16th of an inch from the shaft. Now using a brand new blade in your left hand rest it on the allen key at about a 45 degree angle across the ferule, and grab the other side of the blade with your right hand and slowly lower it until you contact the ferule and drag it towards you cutting the tip as close as you can to final size.

With practice you will soon learn the "feel" of the blade and can get rid of the allen key.

After you are done with the blade and have it trimmed to final. Sand the ferule and tip starting with about 400 then 600 then 800 then 1000 then 1500 then 2000 then 3000 sand papers . Then use what ever burnishing liquid you use. I use brown on cheaper tips. Then wax and polish

 

[cammel8]

(continued pics from previous)
Also once you do the sides you can flip your tool post so you can use the edge of the rest to do the face of the tip.

Once you get the hang of doing it with the boring bar as a rest, you will get a feel of how to do it. The blade should lay relatively flat on the ferule with only a slight downward pressure towards the cutting end so as to not take off too much at once. Make two passes if it helps. One to hog off the material second to finish up.

Once you get the feel for it you can remove the rest and do it freehand but until then you will have a helper.

Hope this helps. if you have any questions just ask. And this is just the way I taught myself. Right or wrong it worked.

And no that isn't even a shaft it was a chunk of scrap I had laying around that i used to demonstrate with. I know it doesn't look the greatest but did this in about 5 minutes just to give the idea on how to do it. I would never allow one that looks that shitty to go to a customer. just saying...

 

[whammo57]

Very interesting methods.... I will give that a try....


thanks

Kim

 

[pescadoman]

Small planer knives......you can forget razor blades and ive yet to find a way to mess up when I use one. Search "my new favorite tool"

 

[lvlss42190]

I would have to agree. Cammel8 those are definitely some worth while tricks. Currently my setup does not have a compound I'm going solely with a small piece of aluminum bolted to the ways to rest the blade of a razor knife on to help steady it while trimming. I haven't figured out how to make a compound yet.

I did get a few offers on some local facebook pages for people who wanted to buy my set up. I've put some thought into selling a few and putting the money towards a real lathe, just haven't decided how much time I want to invest yet. Considering this is mainly for my own use and that of a select few friends/acquaintances.

Either way though, I really appreciate everyone's input and I've placed an order for some bulk cheap tips to experiment with until I get a little more sure of my abilities.

 

[cammel8]

I would have to agree. Cammel8 those are definitely some worth while tricks. Currently my setup does not have a compound I'm going solely with a small piece of aluminum bolted to the ways to rest the blade of a razor knife on to help steady it while trimming. I haven't figured out how to make a compound yet.

I did get a few offers on some local facebook pages for people who wanted to buy my set up. I've put some thought into selling a few and putting the money towards a real lathe, just haven't decided how much time I want to invest yet. Considering this is mainly for my own use and that of a select few friends/acquaintances.

Either way though, I really appreciate everyone's input and I've placed an order for some bulk cheap tips to experiment with until I get a little more sure of my abilities.

Well if you don't have a tool post you have two choices to try to replicate my idea first would be to clamp something to the ways so you have something close to the shaft but removable. The second would be to hold the blade like in th picture in both hands but extend both pointer fingers so they cross over the top of the shaft and allow you to "lower" the blade to the ferule then just follow the ferule with the blade at a 45 degree angle until it shaves the tip.

basically hold the blade between your thumb and middle finger on both hands then use your pointers to guide you along the shaft

 

[lvlss42190]

I've done a few more tips since the original post, I've tried some of the tips that were given on here
I can't thank you all enough for the suggestions.

However, the thing that made the most different to me so far is changing the hand in which I hold the blade, and the direction I'm cutting. You see working as a Machinist on a metal lathe the headstock is always to my left, better than 90% of the cuts I've ever made on a lathe go from left to right.
For some reason (I blame it on me being left handed) I was trying to cut from left to right which wasn't allowing the rotation of the chuck to turn the cue against the blade. As soon as I realized this I changed hands and things went MUCH better. Still a little cat and dog, and it takes a while to get to where I want to go, but the results are good enough for me. I'll more than likely finish out practicing on the remainder of the 20 Le Pro tips I bought and then try my hand on an old McDermott I still use when I'm planning on shooting through a night of heavy drinking. If that goes well I might try my hand on my OB