Florida pool rooms - smoking ban - yes or no?

Smokin

I am surprised that we are having this discussion. There is more than enough evidence showing how bad cigarettes are for the smokers and anyone in their vicinity. The smell alone is enough to turn me off completely, and I cannot imagine why anyone smokes at all. It is a slow poison that has been manipulated by business to addict people to their product and keep them addicted for money alone. Even smokers enjoy going into a clean smoke free pool room and playing. I do understand freedom of choice and when you choose to smoke then you also have to choose the potential consequences that are associated with smoking. But to put others at risk is just not acceptable IMO..
Dan
 
I am surprised that we are having this discussion. There is more than enough evidence showing how bad cigarettes are for the smokers and anyone in their vicinity.
Actually, there really ISN'T any "evidence"; the claim that "environmental tobacco smoke" (ETS) seriously threatens the health of the general public, and in particular that it causes or can lead to lung cancer, is unproven at best. there have been scores of studies on the health effects of ETS, but the one you're probably thinking of was a 1993 report by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, which labeled ETS a class A carcinogen that caused approximately 3,000 lung cancer deaths among adult nonsmokers per year. The EPA report put secondhand smoke on the political front burner once and for all. Countless jurisdictions relied on it when they banned public smoking. Today the U.S. has probably the most stringent regulation of public tobacco use of any major nation. The tobacco industry and its allies were quick to attack the EPA report as "junk science" and filed suit to have it vacated. They won an important victory in 1998 when a North Carolina federal judge ruled that the EPA had made serious procedural errors and, worse, had "cherry-picked" its data to reach a preordained conclusion. The EPA has denied this charge and is appealing the decision. To date, they've still been appealing their loss, but the decision of the 1998 courts has not been overturned.

The controversy over ETS and the EPA report has been marked by accusations of conspiracy, bias, and cooked data, so one has to tread carefully. Nonetheless, a few tentative conclusions can be drawn. The first is that under the most charitable interpretation the EPA's evidence that ETS is carcinogenic comes perilously close to noise level - you're not sure if you're seeing a real effect or just random spikes in the data. The EPA report was based not on original research but on a "meta-analysis" of 11 existing studies; the analysis purported to show that ETS caused a 19 percent increased risk of lung cancer. While this seems like a respectably large number, remember it comes from an epidemiological study, which attempts to infer causality based on associations in the data -circumstantial evidence rather than a "smoking gun" (no pun intended.) Whatever song and dance you may get from the statisticians, skeptical observers prefer to see an increased risk of at least 100 percent before they consider a relationship to be established beyond reasonable doubt.

The tobacco industry claims the EPA had to fudge the numbers just to arrive at 19 percent. For example, in calculating the probabilities, the agency used a "confidence interval" of 90 percent rather than the more stringent (and in my observation more common) 95 percent. The lower the standard, the more statistically significant your results can be made to seem.

Tobacco defenders claim that of four major ETS studies completed since the EPA report was released, two found no evidence that ETS increased cancer risk, one found weak evidence, and only one found strong evidence. The EPA's take on it is that all four studies support its position. Sounds like bluff to me, but read the agency's response and decide for yourself at www.epa.gov/iaq/pubs/strsfs.html.

Smoking opponents say there's a scientific consensus in the U.S. that ETS is bad, citing an impressive list of articles and official pronouncements - for example, a 1998 review in the Journal of the American Medical Association of 100 studies, 63 of which found some evidence of harm from ETS. I personally DISagree ETS is harmful to non-smokers, broadly speaking; the question is whether it causes lung cancer and other significant health problems, as the EPA claims. For years the tobacco industry denied any link between active smoking and lung cancer in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, so you have to wonder when they make the same claim now about passive smoke. Nonetheless, one can't escape the suspicion that this time the weasels may be right.

The smell alone is enough to turn me off completely, and I cannot imagine why anyone smokes at all.
It's hard for me to argue with that, as I'm a smoker, and even I can smell the smoke when I don't for a day or two. But as for why I smoke? I enjoy it. I like the taste (but not the smell, go figure), and while I hate the prices, it's the cost of enjoying a product that brings me pleasure.

But to put others at risk is just not acceptable IMO..
Again, "putting others at risk" is unfounded, and simply put, there has never been any real evidence of such. Non-smokers will argue 'til their blue in the face that the studies prove it, but they don't. All it takes is a little research, and you'll see that for youself. The only "risk" proven for non-smokers is the smell will get on their clothes, in their hair, etc. But long-term health risks? Unfounded, unproved, and junk science at best. :rolleyes:
 
It's just a matter of time before smoking indoors in public is banned everywhere. I have been a smoker on and off (off for 1.5 years now). It sucks that most of pool is synonymous with coating your inards and outards with stank.

It is what it is. BUT I WOULD APPRECIATE IF ALL SMOKERS BLEW THEIR POISON UPWARDS AND PUT THEIR BURNING BUTT ASHTRAYS SOMEWHERE BESIDES CLOSE TO MY FRIGGIN AIR-HOLE.

I constantly have to wade thru a fresh waft of smoke while playing, and it is absolutely, positively unnecessary.

Matt <--- a biz owner that looks down on gov't control but grumphhhs on the inconsiderate smokers, not the considerate ones
 
Again, "putting others at risk" is unfounded, and simply put, there has never been any real evidence of such. Non-smokers will argue 'til their blue in the face that the studies prove it, but they don't. All it takes is a little research, and you'll see that for youself. The only "risk" proven for non-smokers is the smell will get on their clothes, in their hair, etc. But long-term health risks? Unfounded, unproved, and junk science at best. :rolleyes:

I'm not one to argue but just because it is unfounded or unproved does not mean it has no affect on us. I personally can't believe that there is no long term health risks from second hand smoke. It almost seems that if you do anything long enough there will be some kind of risk! JMO
 
I agree and disagree respectfully

Actually, there really ISN'T any "evidence"; the claim that "environmental tobacco smoke" (ETS) seriously threatens the health of the general public, and in particular that it causes or can lead to lung cancer, is unproven at best. there have been scores of studies on the health effects of ETS, but the one you're probably thinking of was a 1993 report by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, which labeled ETS a class A carcinogen that caused approximately 3,000 lung cancer deaths among adult nonsmokers per year. The EPA report put secondhand smoke on the political front burner once and for all. Countless jurisdictions relied on it when they banned public smoking. Today the U.S. has probably the most stringent regulation of public tobacco use of any major nation. The tobacco industry and its allies were quick to attack the EPA report as "junk science" and filed suit to have it vacated. They won an important victory in 1998 when a North Carolina federal judge ruled that the EPA had made serious procedural errors and, worse, had "cherry-picked" its data to reach a preordained conclusion. The EPA has denied this charge and is appealing the decision. To date, they've still been appealing their loss, but the decision of the 1998 courts has not been overturned.

The controversy over ETS and the EPA report has been marked by accusations of conspiracy, bias, and cooked data, so one has to tread carefully. Nonetheless, a few tentative conclusions can be drawn. The first is that under the most charitable interpretation the EPA's evidence that ETS is carcinogenic comes perilously close to noise level - you're not sure if you're seeing a real effect or just random spikes in the data. The EPA report was based not on original research but on a "meta-analysis" of 11 existing studies; the analysis purported to show that ETS caused a 19 percent increased risk of lung cancer. While this seems like a respectably large number, remember it comes from an epidemiological study, which attempts to infer causality based on associations in the data -circumstantial evidence rather than a "smoking gun" (no pun intended.) Whatever song and dance you may get from the statisticians, skeptical observers prefer to see an increased risk of at least 100 percent before they consider a relationship to be established beyond reasonable doubt.

The tobacco industry claims the EPA had to fudge the numbers just to arrive at 19 percent. For example, in calculating the probabilities, the agency used a "confidence interval" of 90 percent rather than the more stringent (and in my observation more common) 95 percent. The lower the standard, the more statistically significant your results can be made to seem.

Tobacco defenders claim that of four major ETS studies completed since the EPA report was released, two found no evidence that ETS increased cancer risk, one found weak evidence, and only one found strong evidence. The EPA's take on it is that all four studies support its position. Sounds like bluff to me, but read the agency's response and decide for yourself at www.epa.gov/iaq/pubs/strsfs.html.

Smoking opponents say there's a scientific consensus in the U.S. that ETS is bad, citing an impressive list of articles and official pronouncements - for example, a 1998 review in the Journal of the American Medical Association of 100 studies, 63 of which found some evidence of harm from ETS. I personally DISagree ETS is harmful to non-smokers, broadly speaking; the question is whether it causes lung cancer and other significant health problems, as the EPA claims. For years the tobacco industry denied any link between active smoking and lung cancer in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, so you have to wonder when they make the same claim now about passive smoke. Nonetheless, one can't escape the suspicion that this time the weasels may be right.

It's hard for me to argue with that, as I'm a smoker, and even I can smell the smoke when I don't for a day or two. But as for why I smoke? I enjoy it. I like the taste (but not the smell, go figure), and while I hate the prices, it's the cost of enjoying a product that brings me pleasure.

Again, "putting others at risk" is unfounded, and simply put, there has never been any real evidence of such. Non-smokers will argue 'til their blue in the face that the studies prove it, but they don't. All it takes is a little research, and you'll see that for youself. The only "risk" proven for non-smokers is the smell will get on their clothes, in their hair, etc. But long-term health risks? Unfounded, unproved, and junk science at best. :rolleyes:


Well there may be lots of things to quote from the tobacco industry like they used to say back in the fifties for instance. They were telling the public that it was good and healthy for people to smoke. I do not recall seeing to much more of that type of sentiment from them anymore. The statement concerning North Carolina is interesting as they are one of the leading producers of tobacco so they are very inetrested in promoting tobacco even though there is less demand all the time. Many farmers there have already given up on the golden leaf as it is called there. I honestly hope and pray that you and any others that choose to smoke do not become ill as a result but also disagree with anyone's findings concerning second hand smoke. Inhaling smoke and all those chemicals into your body in my opinion is not good and I for one do not wish to be subjected to the risk even though someone states it is no risk.
 
Yes ban all smoking in all public places.

I hate having to remove my clothes before my wife will allow me in the bedroom...wait, that didn't sound right...you know what I mean. Where I play is a big place and I still reek when I come home. I can't imagine what that's doing to my lungs.

I am allergic to 2nd hand smoke. I have always been allergic to it. I smoked for about 20 years, or a little more. Of all those years, 16 of them were outdoors only smoking. I remember we had -40 degrees and -60 degrees wind chills one winter, but we bundled up and went outside for 2-4 puffs of a cigarette. When our eyes started to water so bad and it started to freeze up, so we couldn't see, which was only a few puffs into the cigarette, we came back indoors. Twenty minutes later, we were putting all those coats and caps and scarves back on to do it, again. I was hoping it would help us quit. It didn't.

Even thought we smoked outside for so many years, some of that smoke came back in the house with us, because it had found it's way to our clothing and hair. When anyone had been to work at a place smoking was allowed, we sometimes didn't even allow the clothing in the house, because I couldn't breathe. We washed our coats really often, to get all the smoke from work off them.

I love to play pool, but cannot be in a place with smoke. I cannot even go to my in-law's and stay for an hour, without paying for it for the next 3 days to a week. (Four people live there. Four people smoke there.) We went to see them this past Sunday. I was wheezing and feeling like my heart was giving me trouble on Monday and Tuesday, so I didn't do my normal level of working out, for fear I might have another heart attack. On the 2nd night after we had gone, I realized why I was feeling so bad was because we had gone to see the in-laws. The next day (yesterday), I coughed a hard, unproductive, painful cough that only went to the back of my throat. Last night, I began having a full, productive cough all the way up from my lungs, but I feel as though I am fighting off a case of bronchitis. I have a lot of stuff to get done before the Expo, but my production has been severely inhibited by one little visit for an hour or two to the in-law's.

We have a granddaughter who is also allergic to smoke. When she is around it for very long, or very much of it, she has an eye that starts weeping. If I see that start up, I start looking for what is causing it. When I realize we are in a place with smoke, I know it's time for me to leave, too. Her eye is a great gauge for me. When she is not with us, I have to grow enough brains to remember that, even though I love my in-laws, I can't truly enjoy them. That hurts. They even go outside to smoke, when I'm there, but the smell is so strong in their house that it comes home with me and really punishes me for days, like this.

Sorry for the long message. I guess I felt like I needed to share.
 
Corner Pocket on East Oakland Blvd has 4 heated Olhausen billiard tables, a few 9' Gold Crowns, and a few 8' Brunswicks. The room is non-smoking and has a small snack bar.

It's just not an action room, but great if you have a playing partner to go with. Has a great daytime special, like $7 per person until 6:00 PM. Also one of the housemen, Tom, is a well known excellent player that will play you if you haven't a partner, and also gives lessons. Great guy also.

Jim

Tom is a good friend of mine, and corner pocket is the only place I play anymore. Have him introduce us when I get back in town- approx. 4-5 weeks.
 
Atlantic Billiards in Royal Palm Beach Fl is a non-smoking room and business is good.

6 - Nine Foot Diamonds
A couple of Brunswicks
2 - bar boxes

Down with smoking and up with a clean healthy environment.

Hello Scott. will call you when I get back in town or sooner. Hope you're doin well.:thumbup:
 
I am allergic to 2nd hand smoke........ATTACK OF THE SNIP MONSTER....

Wow you really have it bad. I am first realizing now how much I hate it. I lived with smokers my whole life. I guess being married and away from that you don't miss it!
 
o man come on. planning on never gambling again or sweating any great matches?

I was at corner pocket once. I think I saw a tumbleweed. :D

And you left because the tumbleweed played better than you. LOL Just kidding F.
I have been getting my fix by watching on the computer. Played a little tourn. up here monday and the $$$(no this isn't Fatboy) for first just wasn't worth it. Hardly any people there and the place was full of smoke. Nobody was going to gamble so I'm giving up till I get to New York (Caps in Syracuse-no smoking). Probably should have stood outside between games(ran out 7 out of 9 racks) eight ball- haven't played 8 ball in like fifteen years, if I had a gun it wouldn't have been easier.
Anyway I will talk to you about that Searing you want, see what we can do.
 
And you left because the tumbleweed played better than you. LOL Just kidding F.
I have been getting my fix by watching on the computer. Played a little tourn. up here monday and the $$$(no this isn't Fatboy) for first just wasn't worth it. Hardly any people there and the place was full of smoke. Nobody was going to gamble so I'm giving up till I get to New York (Caps in Syracuse-no smoking). Probably should have stood outside between games(ran out 7 out of 9 racks) eight ball- haven't played 8 ball in like fifteen years, if I had a gun it wouldn't have been easier.
Anyway I will talk to you about that Searing you want, see what we can do.

I told the tumbleweed I'd take 10 5 full rack banks. it declined so I called it a lock artist and packed up and left town. I'd like to also mention I lit up a fresh cigarette upon stepping outside..I was looking for Tony the Tiger to jump out and say "thhhhey're GREAT" lol

Corner Pocket is a nice room but it just seems to lack the characters and the atmosphere I like in a pool room. I like the scumbaggery of Hollywood that's part of the appeal , pool to me is about so much more than the table and the game it's about the people that lurk in the shadows around it as well.

f

p.s. i'm getting better I ran my first 6 in a row the other day... of course no one was watching but little chris. :(
 
I told the tumbleweed I'd take 10 5 full rack banks. it declined so I called it a lock artist and packed up and left town. I'd like to also mention I lit up a fresh cigarette upon stepping outside..I was looking for Tony the Tiger to jump out and say "thhhhey're GREAT" lol

Corner Pocket is a nice room but it just seems to lack the characters and the atmosphere I like in a pool room. I like the scumbaggery of Hollywood that's part of the appeal , pool to me is about so much more than the table and the game it's about the people that lurk in the shadows around it as well.

f

p.s. i'm getting better I ran my first 6 in a row the other day... of course no one was watching but little chris. :(

Little chris will remember that forever and play you accordingly.
Scumbaggery-New word????? I like it & fitting description:thumbup:
Hope that smoking Tiger doesn't maul you:(
 
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By legislative decree, smoking is now banned in any public building in Oregon. Though my smoking is limited to the rare cigar, it still burns my butt that this has happened in the so-called "land of the free".

Just another choice removed from private hands by a nanny government.
 
It's ludicrous that people should have to step outside to smoke. It's a huge inconvenience, to say the least!
 
It's ludicrous that people should have to step outside to smoke. It's a huge inconvenience, to say the least!

Where's my violin?????

If you all of a sudden had major health issues and could never be around smoke again... How would you feel if everyone told you that your bad health was just too bad, you'll just have to quit coming there, coz they're not gonna go outside just because you have a problem, now. Basically, that's how I felt, when I had heart attacks and couldn't be in the smoke without severe reactions, anymore. They're not gonna change the rules just for you. You don't mean as much as you think you do to everyone else, so you have to decide you mean that much to yourself and just quit going.

Are you allowed to run around shooting a gun at people anytime you want to? No. You shouldn't be allowed to cause anyone physical harm with your smoke, either.

Lock 'im up, Roscoe! He's hurting innocent people and doesn't even have an ounce of remorse in him!! Throw the book at him!
 
By legislative decree, smoking is now banned in any public building in Oregon. Though my smoking is limited to the rare cigar, it still burns my butt that this has happened in the so-called "land of the free".

Just another choice removed from private hands by a nanny government.

If it is the land of the free, why can't those with severe smoke allergies be allowed in without having their health threatened? It is not a "land of the free" if the attendance is limited by bullies.

I say make it free and allow EVERYONE to come in without fear of health endangerment. That would truly be a "land of the free."
 
the bottom line really is this: it is an individual's right to smoke or not, but when your smoking affects everyone around you in a negative way, i.e health, smell, etc. then you are now imposing your habit on everybody, whether they like it or not.

it is not fair for smokers to take the stance that if you don't like smoke, don't go to those places. it may be a little inconvenant for smokers to have to go outside to smoke, but at least this way everyone can enjoy the places of business we all like to frequent. this is the best comprimise to the situation.

we have all seen the smoking threads before and know it is hotly contested, it's nice to see that on this thread at least, that all parties, smokers and non-smokers, have been nice relating their views on the subject. just my view on the subject. non-smoker steve
 
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