focusing on the object ball during follow through

[Island Drive]

Object Ball/Randy G

We have all heard the term when someone is playing great, "the balls seemed as big as oranges or basketballs, the pockets too". Now what I just said, and correct me if I am wrong, but 'that' terminology, as far as I know, was never directed towards the size of the cue ball. I know when that type of clarity was there, I was playing reeaal good and I was not looking at the cue ball thinking it too is as big as a basketball.

 

[pete lafond]

It has been interesting reading the discussion.

..

Another thing I see some people are missing is that the cueball IS the immediate target.
P.S. Luther "Wimpy" Lassiter wrote in his book billiards for everyone that it did not seem to matter citing that Willie Hoppe looked at the cueball last. But Lassiter did also say that he looked at the object ball.

Regards

I tend to disagree with this, please just my thoughts.

The CB is one of the tools, equipment or the instrument we use to execute our shot, just like our cue stick is. We do not aim for the CB, we aim for a spot on the object ball or the place to the OB. When I'm shooting well, it feels like the CB is part of me, I feel it. Because the CB is round and because it is not physically connected to us, I can see were the confusion might be.


In ALL sports played we lock our eyes onto something at the point of execution and in pool I believe it is the OB ball. The CB is what makes things happen and it should be so connected to us that we feel it, control it and it is part of us. We should be so tuned that we almost do not even need to look at it, except to see if our tools are calibrated properly (aligned properly).

I'm a pretty reaching person and tried my best to figure out how players could think otherwise. I would also bet that even Luther locked in on were the CB was to end up at contact.

It would be nice to hear 15 pros give us their comment and I would expect that almost every one would state that even though they make a final check on the CB, they all lock onto the target (OB or place were the CB will be at contact) when they pull the trigger.

 

[chefjeff]

Jeff,
Be careful about doing warm up strokes while looking at the target. I've seen a lot of players give up ball in hand because they touched the cue ball doing this. If you are doing warm-ups, it's usually best to keep your eye on the thing that is moving...the tip, to prevent those little "accidents". If you gotta look up to check your alignment, stop moving the cue while you do so.
Steve

Thanks for the advice, pooltchr. I've touched the cueball accidently before--maybe once anyway.

I do look at the tip (along with the cueball) on my first three practice strokes. I used to completely stop stroking to do this, but there's two reasons I've discontinued that practice:

1.) I don't yet have my bridge in the exact spot/position so as I stroke, I'm letting my bridge hand "settle-in" to its proper position. It seems easier that way.

2.) I have a tremor ("essential tremor" it's called, just like Kathern Hepburn had.."Spencer, come here..") and when I try to stop my stroke, I start shaking sometimes, which doesn't help at all. So, I'm working on keeping everything moving a little to avoid this problem.

Anyone else have the shakes? And what do you do about it?

Jeff Livingston

 

[eales]

I look at the OB last for most shots. I look at the CB last if I am briding over a ball or the like. In either case, the most important factor is that I stay focused on whatever I am looking at. As several have mentioned, the hand follows the eye, so if my focus changes I am much more likely to miss. "Stay focused and trust" is essential for me.

Jim Eales

 

[Jason Robichaud]

I think the comparison of throwing a ball or dart is the first mistake.
They couldn't be more different. Lets compare it to golf, tennis, volleyball,
pingpong etc. Pick a sport that requires us to hit an object at a target. Lets look at baseball. If you wanted to hit a ball down left-field, would you look down the line or at the baseball. Every sport the requires us to hit a ball at a target we look at the ball just before contact and follow it toward the target.

Which do we use in Pool? When I play good, I don't know what I look at. When I play bad, I'm looking at too many spots, targets and balls.

 

[bustinbob_99]

I know that some times when I miss what normally would be a simple shot for me, I realize that I did not even see the object ball. I feel shocked when it happens and somewhat embarrassed, but when I go back through what actually happened, I realize that it was my lack of looking and concentrating on the object ball last that caused the problem. Keep your eye lastly on the OB if you don't want to miss like me.

 

[Craig Fales]

Let me add a little more to this...when I first get down on the shot my first few warmup strokes I watch the tip of my cue, making sure it's where I want it...

then I move my eyes back and forth between the CB and OB, just as I said before...this is when I make adjustments....

when I hit the CB, I'm looking at it, then as the CB is moving to the OB I am watching the CB...

then after it has hit the OB, that's what I watch...

all this is something that is developed through skills acquired...that 'feel' of when the shot is on or not that is from experience...
________

 

[pete lafond]

I think the comparison of throwing a ball or dart is the first mistake.
They couldn't be more different. Lets compare it to golf, tennis, volleyball,
pingpong etc. Pick a sport that requires us to hit an object at a target. Lets look at baseball. If you wanted to hit a ball down left-field, would you look down the line or at the baseball. Every sport the requires us to hit a ball at a target we look at the ball just before contact and follow it toward the target.

Which do we use in Pool? When I play good, I don't know what I look at. When I play bad, I'm looking at too many spots, targets and balls.

Very good thoughts Jason. My answer would be that the CB is your baseball bat. If we just hit OB's without a CB into the pockets the game would be too easy. The game was invented with another piece of equipment which is the CB. Equipment = Cue stick + CB. I think this is the difficult part to understand.

Focus point is the OB. When in the zone I almost never give a whole lot of attention to the CB, instead I simply see the OB very clearly and the point I need to hit very clearly. No matter what the angle or how difficult the shot (actually in the zone almost no shot is difficult), the CB feels it is like part of me. I can move the cue ball just like I were throwing a curve in baseball or a football at a running receiver, I just do not need and it makes no sense for me to give it a whole lot of consideration. Just like throwinga a ball, I do not need to look at the ball while I'm throwing it, only the target.

All I can say that if you train your eye to find the spot of the OB and keep focus there, your body automatically knows curve, squirt or anything else to that matter. I taught my 9 yr old the correct way to play pool which includes stroking and aiming. He just started playing pool this year and was in an adult league ( he was the only kid). In individuals he was in the C group and won it. He went 2-0 in every match until he had to play the winner of the losers side and lost 1-2. He got to play the loser side winner again because that was his only loss and won 2-0. He has no special gift, he just learned the proper way to aim and shot. I only say this because this works and works well. Also, the best straight pool player in the world (ran 250,450, 550 balls many, many times) taught me at 19. I ran 78 balls in my first year of play because of him teaching me correctly. And what I taught my son is what he taught me.

 

[randyg]

I think the comparison of throwing a ball or dart is the first mistake.
They couldn't be more different. Lets compare it to golf, tennis, volleyball,
pingpong etc. Pick a sport that requires us to hit an object at a target. Lets look at baseball. If you wanted to hit a ball down left-field, would you look down the line or at the baseball. Every sport the requires us to hit a ball at a target we look at the ball just before contact and follow it toward the target.

Which do we use in Pool? When I play good, I don't know what I look at. When I play bad, I'm looking at too many spots, targets and balls.

Jason. Correct me here. What is the ball doing in the sports you just used as a comparison (baseball-tennis)? What is your cueball doing just before you impact it?

Pool & Golf are fairly alike as they are non-reactionary sports. Thanks...randyg

 

[Cornerman]

Jason. Correct me here. What is the ball doing in the sports you just used as a comparison (baseball-tennis)? What is your cueball doing just before you impact it?

Pool & Golf are fairly alike as they are non-reactionary sports. Thanks...randyg

The whole sport comparison is simply an old misconception, over and over. Pool is so unique that nobody can properly compare it to any other sport. I wish people would just stop trying.

Throw the throwing sports out.
Throw the reactionary sports out.
Don't people see the obvious important difference between these and pool?

The closest sports are the ones that are non-reactive where the player is playing, moving, or doing something on the same level as the action. That unfortunately eliminates golf, a sport that otherwise is the closest cousin to pool. That would however include shuffle board, bowling, curling and even marbles. And again, there are still differences since none of these analogies contain hitting the first object like the cueball in pool.

There must be a common activity that is non-reactive, you hit an object, and you are on the same level as the play in question.

Anyone ever play paper football? To score, you make a paper football, and someone uses their hands and fingers as goal posts. This is a fair analogy since everything is stationary (non-reactive), you have to hit an object to a target and there's limited motion in the body, and you are down on the same level as the actual action. Personally, I look at the goal posts. If the task was to hit an object with the paperfootball so that it (either the football or the object) ricochets into something else, IMO, you'd have to look at the object, not the paper football.

Fred <~~~ pool isn't analogous to anything else

 

[Donovan]

The whole sport comparison is simply an old misconception, over and over. Pool is so unique that nobody can properly compare it to any other sport. I wish people would just stop trying.

Throw the throwing sports out.
Throw the reactionary sports out.
Don't people see the obvious important difference between these and pool?

The closest sports are the ones that are non-reactive where the player is playing, moving, or doing something on the same level as the action. That unfortunately eliminates golf, a sport that otherwise is the closest cousin to pool. That would however include shuffle board, bowling, curling and even marbles. And again, there are still differences since none of these analogies contain hitting the first object like the cueball in pool.

There must be a common activity that is non-reactive, you hit an object, and you are on the same level as the play in question.

Anyone ever play paper football? To score, you make a paper football, and someone uses their hands and fingers as goal posts. This is a fair analogy since everything is stationary (non-reactive), you have to hit an object to a target and there's limited motion in the body, and you are down on the same level as the actual action. Personally, I look at the goal posts. If the task was to hit an object with the paperfootball so that it (either the football or the object) ricochets into something else, IMO, you'd have to look at the object, not the paper football.

Fred <~~~ pool isn't analogous to anything else

I don't know if you were really posing this as a question. But how about Croquet? The only real difference I could think of is the surface isn't as smooth. But I think it covered everything you mentioned.

Don't hate me Cornerman, I know it wasn't really a question.

 

[pete lafond]

The whole sport comparison is simply an old misconception, over and over. Pool is so unique that nobody can properly compare it to any other sport. I wish people would just stop trying.

Throw the throwing sports out.
Throw the reactionary sports out.
Don't people see the obvious important difference between these and pool?

The closest sports are the ones that are non-reactive where the player is playing, moving, or doing something on the same level as the action. That unfortunately eliminates golf, a sport that otherwise is the closest cousin to pool. That would however include shuffle board, bowling, curling and even marbles. And again, there are still differences since none of these analogies contain hitting the first object like the cueball in pool.

There must be a common activity that is non-reactive, you hit an object, and you are on the same level as the play in question.

Anyone ever play paper football? To score, you make a paper football, and someone uses their hands and fingers as goal posts. This is a fair analogy since everything is stationary (non-reactive), you have to hit an object to a target and there's limited motion in the body, and you are down on the same level as the actual action. Personally, I look at the goal posts. If the task was to hit an object with the paperfootball so that it (either the football or the object) ricochets into something else, IMO, you'd have to look at the object, not the paper football.

Fred <~~~ pool isn't analogous to anything else

In my opinion I have to disagree. All sports (pure running sports not considered here), reactionary or not, share one thing in common which is a players keen ability to lock in and focus on some object. This is what makes an athlete an athlete, the ability to focus with good eye-hand coordination. I've played many sports and I noticed the players that had the most difficulty improving were the ones who had the inability to focus correctly. They carried too much uncertainty, like the batter that gave to much attention to his bat instead of focusing on the ball, or the hockey player that gave to much attention to the puck instead of focusing exactly were it should end up.

If pool were a game where there were only 15 OB's and NO CB and all you have to do is pocket each ball individually with your cue, how would you aim? Now add another ball, the CB, that you have to hit first. Nothing changes here at all regarding pocketing the OB balls. The focus should remain the same.


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[pete lafond]

Jason. Correct me here. What is the ball doing in the sports you just used as a comparison (baseball-tennis)? What is your cueball doing just before you impact it?

Pool & Golf are fairly alike as they are non-reactionary sports. Thanks...randyg

but have the golf ball have to hit another golf ball on each shot and it all changes now.

 

[pete lafond]

If a cue stick were not involved in pool and all you had to do is roll the CB with your hands to make the OB into a pocket, how would you aim? Practice this and once you have it down then pay attention to your final focus. This is now the best aiming method you should use.

Remember, when you first try this you will be like a newbie to pool as your eyes might follow the CB a litttle paying attention to the line of CB flight. After you become more proficient at it you will notice that you will ignore the CB and focus on were it will end up. (Added -edit)

 

[Colin Colenso]

If a cue stick were not involved in pool and all you had to do is roll the CB with your hands to make the OB into a pocket, how would you aim?

I believe many bowlers aim at the points 10 or so feet in front of them...not the pins. And some golfers aim their puts at a blade of grass a couple of feet from the ball.

It has a lot to do with picking out something in your line of sight to refer your aim to.

Of course we need to aim using the OB as a target, but the whole question of whether we need to look at it after the bridge is set, means that we must be allowing for adjustments on the final stroke. Many do this and maybe it is the best way.

But those who say the aren't adjusting in this phase, and merely want to stroke straight, should, if that is their goal, have their focus on their stroke.

It is possible for us to make all adjustments in aligning to pot the OB prior to the final stroke. If that is our intention, then why look away from what we are stroking at...a point on the CB.

 

[Cornerman]

I don't know if you were really posing this as a question. But how about Croquet? The only real difference I could think of is the surface isn't as smooth. But I think it covered everything you mentioned.

Don't hate me Cornerman, I know it wasn't really a question.

You don't hit on the same level as the action in croquet. I think this is a huge part of the puzzle.

Fred

 

[Cornerman]

In my opinion I have to disagree. All sports (pure running sports not considered here), reactionary or not, share one thing in common which is a players keen ability to lock in and focus on some object.

Nothing you said is in any kind of disagreement with what I said. I suggest a re-read.

If pool were a game where there were only 15 OB's and NO CB and all you have to do is pocket each ball individually with your cue, how would you aim?

Look at the pocket last. Which is consistent with my post.

Fred

 

[pete lafond]

ignore this one...

 

[pete lafond]

Colin: I believe many bowlers aim at the points 10 or so feet in front of them...not the pins. And some golfers aim their puts at a blade of grass a couple of feet from the ball.

This would change if the Bowling ball were traveling a straight path, but the pros curve the ball to the pins. I never involved myself with bowling simply because the appeal wasn't there for me. So to comment would not be fair.

Of course we need to aim using the OB as a target, but the whole question of whether we need to look at it after the bridge is set, means that we must be allowing for adjustments on the final stroke. Many do this and maybe it is the best way.

No the bridge is set, the alignment is set and now is the "fine tune" stage, which is why focus is so important on the target OB. This focus is also what keeps everything steady. I was told to lock in at trigger time or expect misses.

But those who say the aren't adjusting in this phase, and merely want to stroke straight, should, if that is their goal, have their focus on their stroke.

Placing focus on the stroke causes the hands and the body to become susceptible to self-conscious thinking which results in instability of their stroke and uncertainty. Imagine driving a car at 70 mph and paying more attention to the road 2 feet in front of the car even if your eyes shift ahead occasionally. On the other hand, imagine looking straight ahead to a point much further down the road and only occasionally looking at the road 2 feet in front of the car. This is the difference.

I have seen players who's strokes were not steady and had difficulty making shots consistently. After having them keep their focus ahead, their strokes became incredibly smoother. (Also, when you are more conscious of the immediate stroke in a pressure situation, you are more likely to choke and miss) We need a target and it must be ahead of us. We need to see the targets straight line to the pocket. The pockets are big and the more absolute we are aligning our object to the center of the pocket, the better we are in pocketing.

Focus is key;

1. The first skill to develop is to quickly see the absolute point of the OB to the back of the pocket as a line. Our minds develop this skill so that over time we begin seeing the tiniest spot on the OB and we can move the line around by changing the spot. Once we have done this enough times we no longer need to see the pocket because our minds know exactly were the pocket is relative to were we are on the table - experience. And because of our continued perfection in seeing the line we only need one aiming method, not two or three, and we continue perfecting it. Imagine seeing every ball quickly from the tiniest point to the pocket as automatic. When we warm up, we are just fine tuning our vision.

2. The next skill is to trust our control of the CB. In other words however the CB needs to get there and no matter the curve, squirt,.. we already know it and do not need to think of it because it developed into "feel" for us. This is were we need to build trust.

Developing these two key areas are important to "getting in the zone". The point of the OB to the pocket is now clear. The CB is part of us and we just know how to get it to where it needs to go without spending any thought on it. It should be this simple.

 

[pete lafond]

Nothing you said is in any kind of disagreement with what I said. I suggest a re-read.

I read your post as pool is so unique and you can not comapre it to other sports, sorry. I guess you meant that it is not so unique which is what I was saying.

Look at the pocket last. Which is consistent with my post.

Fred

Very good. I like that.